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Quotes from CT's article from the Chicago-Kent Law Review, the Chicago-Kent College of Law of the Illinois Institute of Technology, Chicago.
Our research in this area is still in the preliminary stages. For the most part, our conclusions are not definitive. Instead we intend to outline what our findings suggest at this point in our research as an indication of future directions that our research and, we hope, the research of others might take in this area.
If the white South saw blacks as a threat, the country as a whole saw southern and eastern Europeans in similar terms. For this reason, in part, the numbers of such immigrants were subject to significant limits. Beyond this, these immigrants were associated with mental deficiency, with crime, and most dangerously, with the sort of anarchist inspired crime that was feared in Europe, such as political assassination and politically motivated robberies.
If the story of New York's Sullivan Law suggests that a fear of and a desire to control suspect classes of undesirables bears likeness to the story of the white South's ventures into gun control in the Reconstruction and post-Reconstruction periods, it is true as well that the Sullivan Law, like the Southern statutory and constitutional provisions inaugurated in those periods, spoke to what on its surface was a legitimate societal goal in advancing the cause of public safety. Such goals would be argued in later years with the passage of the National Firearms Act of 1934 and in the 1960s and beyond, when concerns with Saturday Night Specials" and with " assault weapons" would take center stage. If safety concerns must be conceded, it should be recognized as well that local governments have sought to ban firearms from what is frequently considered one of today's untrustworthy and suspect classes, the urban poor.
Some very interesting topics that need more research.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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CowboyT wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:48 am
SunRiseWest wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:57 pm I don't have a super-clear feeling about open carry in Los Angeles, I'm still thinking about it. Top of my head? There should be some exceptions-- like walking your dog or to the grocery store late at night within two miles of your house. Or on a mountain bike on the backside of Griffith Park or the Verdugo mountains, though I suppose you'd have to ride through the city to get there. Or during some emergencies. I'm sure there are other exceptions.

As a day-to-day thing, I'm not crazy about OC in LA, too many damn car-to-car shootings as it is. Took me 30 years of psychotherapy, five years of clinical training and quitting drinking to stop road raging and street racing.

At 65, yeah, I might finally have enough impulse control to be tooling around town with a gun strapped to my hip in LA traffic, but for the half century that preceded it? Not so sure about that!

* * * *

+1 Cowboy. Folks often forget that Martin Luther King owned several guns (though he got rid of them later in life.)

* * * *

Desert, that map is a mind-blower! Holy crap! Scary shit. Had no idea.
Perhaps a little racial minority perspective might help with all this.

The Black Panthers of the 1960's did open carry throughout Oakland for very good reason. They had no desire to actually shoot anybody, but they had *every* interest in defending themselves from daily Rodney King-style beatdowns for things like 10-over-the-speed-limit. No, not an exaggeration. The Panthers would listen to the police radio, show up (yes, with those famous shotguns) whenever it was a Black person getting what we would now call "detained" by the police, and make sure the Miranda rights were respected. The beat-downs slowed to a trickle. Funny how that works, ain't it...?

Any sort of carry, open or concealed, needs to always--ALWAYS--be an option. This is why I fully support Vermont Carry nationwide. I have no problem seeing someone "tooling around with a gun" any more than I have a problem seeing a Black person in a predominately White neighborhood. That person is not a threat to me. Whether the gun is concealed or openly carried, I don't care one bit. First, if the gun is concealed, then I don't even know that it's there in the first place. Second, if the gun is openly carried, then that person is letting people know, "I am doing you all the courtesy of letting you know that I am carrying." That person generally has the same mentality that my Dad taught me, which is, "don't start nothin', but don't take nothin' either." That means if someone doesn't actually try to assault me, I have nothing to respond to. If they do, then I will defend myself. That's generally the kind of person that open-carries. This is why I don't have a problem with it. Matter of fact, I'm actually a little relieved if I see that, because that person is being openly honest about it. That's probably the safest person with whom I can interact. And if it's a Black person openly carrying, e. g. in states with Constitutional Carry, then that means, "Charlottesville-style racists, I'm not the one. Leave me in peace and we'll be fine."
I have no doubt about what you are saying r.e. 10 MPH over the speed limit-- or even 6 MPH. Will never forget my first show with my Latin X lead guitar player, he followed me home after my car got towed and gave it to me straight: Yeah, you can go 10 MPH over the limit, but I can't. I never doubted him.

Also do not doubt that the Panthers were not looking to intimidate anyone, except possibly those who might do them harm.

What's tricky is, I don't know how people would react in Los Angeles in 2021. You raise an interesting point: Maybe people would react as you say, which is pretty much how it is with knives: So long as you can see the clip, you won't have any problem. Even with security at my health care provider where there is a no-weapons policy-- the guard never gives me a hard time about carrying a flipper. It's a normal thing here for most folks. I'm a HCP, and sometimes a client will take their knife out of their pocket and put it on the couch next to them-- just more comfortable that way. Sure, if a patient were agitated or had anger management issues, I might ask about that, but for most people, I wouldn't even bat an eye.

Harder to predict how it would go with firearms given current media hysteria. Keeping an open mind here.
“Freedom is something that dies unless it's used.”
― Hunter S. Thompson

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It's that very media hysteria that you speak of that is the problem. It's not people themselves. It's almost like the media folks are actually *trying* to whip up violence and even encourage people toward violent behaviour by glorifying it like they do. Notice that every time something bad happens, especially if it involves firearms, the media folks give it all sorts of attention, over and over. That sort of attention is exactly what someone with issues might be looking for. "Hey, I can get all sorts of attention if I shoot up a place! Let's rock!" You see what I mean? That's exactly opposite to what they should be doing, which is not glorifying and even in a sense rewarding violence.

Since I'm no longer in California, I've had the experience, on quite a few occasions, of people OC'ing in my presence. Didn't bother me. I will admit that the first time I myself did so, I felt a little...odd...since I had never done it before. But I got used to it pretty quickly.

I'll give you an example. Until the Bloom-boy Democrats took over the Virginia Legislature, we of the Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL) would peacefully lobby our legislators, on Lobby Day (mid-January of each year) at the VA General Assembly. We would do so while open-carrying, to demonstrate that A.) it is a right, and B.) that right is to be exercised peacefully unless and until someone actually attacks physically. We've never had a bad incident in all the years we've been doing this. That is, BTW, exactly what the Black Panthers did in the 1960's when the Mulford Act was being debated in the CA General Assembly...and we all know how those racist legislators reacted.

It's sort of like what happens with nudity. The first time one is exposed to it, it's an "OHMYGODOHMYGODOHMYGOD!!!!!" sort of reaction. After a few minutes, the person starts relaxing and beginning to realize that it's no big deal. After an hour, they don't stop thinking about it, but they do stop obsessing about it. It starts becoming normal for them. Growing up in San Francisco, I saw this reaction from people all the time. It's a very European way of thinking. You may notice a particularly attractive person, but the "OMG NUDITY!!!" aspect of it goes away.

It's the same with firearms. First time I was in the presence of a bunch of open-carriers, yeah, it was a shock to me! Of course it was; I'm from California! But it pretty quickly became no big deal and then ultimately normal for me. Now I see an open-carrier, I don't even bat an eye. However...if it's a particularly unusual firearm or one that I like, e. g. a beautifully cared for, nickel-plated, S&W N-frame with a rosewood handle, then yeah, I might tactfully approach the person and ask them, "pardon me, I couldn't help but notice that beautiful revolver; is that a nickel-plated S&W N-frame, perchance?" I've done this sort of thing, and others have done it with me. Every time, the response has been positive, like asking a guy about his cool sports car. That sort of thing.

And that's what I think would actually happen. It'd be a shock to some, at first, like with the nudity example. But then that shock would wear off, people would get used to it, and we'd just carry on like normal. Yep, even in 2022.
"San Francisco Liberal With A Gun"
http://www.sanfranciscoliberalwithagun.com/ (reloading instruction)
http://www.liberalsguncorner.com/ (podcast)
---------------------------------------
A true Liberal must back the Second Amendment 100%!

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CowboyT wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:19 pm It's that very media hysteria that you speak of that is the problem. It's not people themselves. It's almost like the media folks are actually *trying* to whip up violence and even encourage people toward violent behaviour by glorifying it like they do. Notice that every time something bad happens, especially if it involves firearms, the media folks give it all sorts of attention, over and over. That sort of attention is exactly what someone with issues might be looking for. "Hey, I can get all sorts of attention if I shoot up a place! Let's rock!" You see what I mean? That's exactly opposite to what they should be doing, which is not glorifying and even in a sense rewarding violence.

Since I'm no longer in California, I've had the experience, on quite a few occasions, of people OC'ing in my presence. Didn't bother me. I will admit that the first time I myself did so, I felt a little...odd...since I had never done it before. But I got used to it pretty quickly.

I'll give you an example. Until the Bloom-boy Democrats took over the Virginia Legislature, we of the Virginia Citizens Defense League (VCDL) would peacefully lobby our legislators, on Lobby Day (mid-January of each year) at the VA General Assembly. We would do so while open-carrying, to demonstrate that A.) it is a right, and B.) that right is to be exercised peacefully unless and until someone actually attacks physically. We've never had a bad incident in all the years we've been doing this. That is, BTW, exactly what the Black Panthers did in the 1960's when the Mulford Act was being debated in the CA General Assembly...and we all know how those racist legislators reacted.

It's sort of like what happens with nudity. The first time one is exposed to it, it's an "OHMYGODOHMYGODOHMYGOD!!!!!" sort of reaction. After a few minutes, the person starts relaxing and beginning to realize that it's no big deal. After an hour, they don't stop thinking about it, but they do stop obsessing about it. It starts becoming normal for them. Growing up in San Francisco, I saw this reaction from people all the time. It's a very European way of thinking. You may notice a particularly attractive person, but the "OMG NUDITY!!!" aspect of it goes away.

It's the same with firearms. First time I was in the presence of a bunch of open-carriers, yeah, it was a shock to me! Of course it was; I'm from California! But it pretty quickly became no big deal and then ultimately normal for me. Now I see an open-carrier, I don't even bat an eye. However...if it's a particularly unusual firearm or one that I like, e. g. a beautifully cared for, nickel-plated, S&W N-frame with a rosewood handle, then yeah, I might tactfully approach the person and ask them, "pardon me, I couldn't help but notice that beautiful revolver; is that a nickel-plated S&W N-frame, perchance?" I've done this sort of thing, and others have done it with me. Every time, the response has been positive, like asking a guy about his cool sports car. That sort of thing.

And that's what I think would actually happen. It'd be a shock to some, at first, like with the nudity example. But then that shock would wear off, people would get used to it, and we'd just carry on like normal. Yep, even in 2022.
The nudity example is an interesting parallel. I remember one time back in the '80s when me and two buddies were walking along the beach in Martha's Vineyard and-- entirely without intending to-- we stumbled upon the nude section of the beach. We were respectful, didn't stare... but then ran into two very attractive young women who one of my friends knew, and wound up sitting down and talking to them for about 15 or 20 minutes.

It was like you said, only even more extreme: Shocking at first, had to try really hard to act normal... but after ten minutes or so, we were embarrassed to be wearing clothes. We didn't have towels and weren't planning on swimming, so it was like, what do we do? Do we take off our clothes? Are we pretending this isn't weird, or kind of having a laugh at what an odd situation this is? Turned out to be the latter, fortunately.

Just read up a bit on the Mulford Act-- I was only 10 years old, so this was barely on my radar. I do remember the news photos, and to white New Yorkers, it did seem outrageous that anyone would bring guns into a pubic building. I think I remember my father, who at that point was practically a member of the John Birch Society, being particularly outraged.
“Freedom is something that dies unless it's used.”
― Hunter S. Thompson

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As I read this thread and other it got me to thinking, I know that is a dangerous thing. With the shooting in the LGBT club in Colorado and other mass shootings, has there been any committed by a black person? I think back to the days of the so called first mass shooting, at UT Texas tower and Charles Whitman, I can't think of one. There have ben many black people as victims of mass shootings by other races and Black on Black shootings which are many gang and crime related, as I read the papers. But ,no Blacks as the mass shooters, as far as I can remember. The people that have committed mass shootings had mental health issues and not had proper treatment. You would have to have mental health issues to go out and randomly start shooting people. But as we have seen, elsewhere in the world, these same people when denied a gun, use knives swords or other means to do the killings. Why should we deny all but a select few people (LEOs , Politically Connected) from owning guns, based on the actions of a few. If we allow freedom to own and carry a gun, would that reduce to number of crimes committed using guns, when the criminals know they might be meet with returning gunfire?

As for the Mulford Act had the Black Panthers been white people with the stated goal of protecting them against those others, Ronnie Raygun and the California Legislature would have been cheering rather than being scared about those "other people " carring guns. At the time of Gov. Ronnie in California, the KKK was still holding meetings in Jasper and Vidor, Texas.
My thoughts.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

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The KKK was also still holding meetings in California at the time, probably still are. Coastal CA is very different than eastern CA.

I'm not a fan of open carry but it is very likely the right protected by "bear." And I will admit, during the BLM protests, the NFAC marching while armed certainly left a "fuck around and find out" impression. Perhaps and armed society is a polite society. I dunno.

Also, TrueTexan, the only black public shooter I can think of was the Beltway sniper. Not exactly mass shooting in one location.

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Mass shooting is a confusing term, the FBI has their definition but their stats are totally voluntary and not all law enforcement agencies share their data. Newspapers and other organizations collect data based on their definition of mass shooting. We know Everytown and some other anti-gunner data bases are questionable.

Mass shootings don't have to involve any deaths often it's just injuries, but the seriousness of the injuries varies. Not all databases list the race of the shooter. This database has a photo of the perp or perps.
This list only includes people who have been convicted, charged with or wanted for violent crimes in connection to these shooting events.
https://mass-shootings.info/index.php?year=2022

Eugene Volokh at Reason explains some of the confusion.
https://reason.com/volokh/2021/03/24/ma ... s-a-whole/
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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CDFingers wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:25 pm Very good thread.

My ghasts remain flabbered when I once again grok that so many magats/racists/homophobes/shit-for-brains simply do not understand equality, 14th Amendment-style.

CDFingers
I blame trump and his ilk. This sort of thing just wasn't so prevalent before trump, the chief 'shit-for-brains'. Mean, insulting, arrogant, ignorant, violent...trump.
If the orange turd was permanently out of the picture a lot of the air would go out of the trump 'balloon'..Yup, still have little hitlers like deSatan but nothing like the ass-holiness that comes outta trump.

BTW-OpenCarry. Legal here in the republic. But, except to try to make some point..I don't get it. It takes a 'tactical' advantage away from you. Bad guys don't know who might be carrying...YES, I think CC should be much more common and sought. Except the easy access to guns part..Lots of weird, dangerous, angry people 'out there' with a lot of legally obtained guns...

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F4FEver wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 7:57 am
CDFingers wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:25 pm Very good thread.

My ghasts remain flabbered when I once again grok that so many magats/racists/homophobes/shit-for-brains simply do not understand equality, 14th Amendment-style.

CDFingers
I blame trump and his ilk. This sort of thing just wasn't so prevalent before trump, the chief 'shit-for-brains'. Mean, insulting, arrogant, ignorant, violent...trump.
If the orange turd was permanently out of the picture a lot of the air would go out of the trump 'balloon'..Yup, still have little hitlers like deSatan but nothing like the ass-holiness that comes outta trump.

BTW-OpenCarry. Legal here in the republic. But, except to try to make some point..I don't get it. It takes a 'tactical' advantage away from you. Bad guys don't know who might be carrying...YES, I think CC should be much more common and sought. Except the easy access to guns part..Lots of weird, dangerous, angry people 'out there' with a lot of legally obtained guns...
TOS just let those idiots right-wingers come out into public view. They have been there all along, many from families of decades of this type of racist thinking. Just like TOS they want to blame others for their personal failures. I heard this back in the 60s and 70s where there was the quotes about how so and so got the job because he was black/brown and white people are mistreated. It holds the truth from Aristotle “Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man.”
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

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The extremes have always been around, it's just that the two parties isolated them more in the past. The media loves conflict, so when something political happens they interview the wingers of the right and left which helps intensify the conflict and keeps it in the news for days. Conflict makes money for TV and radio stations, newspapers, online sites... We live in a victimhood culture, seems like everyone is eligible to claim they're a victim and oppressed and use it to try and excuse some of their behavior. And that in itself can lead to more conflict.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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highdesert wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 12:15 pm The extremes have always been around, it's just that the two parties isolated them more in the past. The media loves conflict, so when something political happens they interview the wingers of the right and left which helps intensify the conflict and keeps it in the news for days. Conflict makes money for TV and radio stations, newspapers, online sites... We live in a victimhood culture, seems like everyone is eligible to claim they're a victim and oppressed and use it to try and excuse some of their behavior. And that in itself can lead to more conflict.
Except in the GOPathetic, extremism has become the norm. Hate, violence...the orange turd is still the leader GOP and is the chief hater...as evidenced by trump's recent dinner with fuentes..an admitted white supremacist. And west, an admitted anti-semite. and by the support of various homo-phobes like boebert and eMpTy greene.

The ONLY people who ought to be supporting trump the prick are poorly educated, ignorant, angry white men...but alas..

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Obsessions become more intense as people age. There is much more in life than Donald Trump, he's a showman who wants to be president one last time. Political parties play on peoples emotions and they'll promise everything to get back in power, I refuse to get played.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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highdesert wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:21 pm Obsessions become more intense as people age. There is much more in life than Donald Trump, he's a showman who wants to be president one last time. Political parties play on peoples emotions and they'll promise everything to get back in power, I refuse to get played.
I'm so old I obsess about my obsessing. Hence, a beer now and again will bring me back to reality, which includes feeding cats.

CDFingers
Image
Image
While the firelight's aglow strange shadows from the flames will grow
'Til things we've never seen will seem familiar

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highdesert wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 12:15 pm The extremes have always been around, it's just that the two parties isolated them more in the past. The media loves conflict, so when something political happens they interview the wingers of the right and left which helps intensify the conflict and keeps it in the news for days. Conflict makes money for TV and radio stations, newspapers, online sites... We live in a victimhood culture, seems like everyone is eligible to claim they're a victim and oppressed and use it to try and excuse some of their behavior. And that in itself can lead to more conflict.
Well said-- except it's like outsourcing: Everyone thinks it works, everyone buys into the formula, but in the end, everyone just gets screwed.

One of the most shocking moments for me was in the '80s I was working as a teleprompter trying to land a writing/producing spot on a tabloid TV show in New York in the darkest days of ambush interviews. I finally got a segment, with the topic chosen by the shark pit of segment producers-- "Battered Women Who Fight Back."

I confirm it with everyone: The guests only have to answer questions that they approve in advance, she agrees-- we'll have a shrink on the show. We all get on the same page-- we want to throw a hand grenade at every stupid cliche people have about survivors of DV, blow up the whole blame-the-victim attitude.

Day of the show, the lead segment producer comes in and says, "Here are your new questions," and they're like, "What did little Jimmy do when Daddy was on the floor in a pool of blood?" And when I refused? "This will be your last day on the set."

Fortunately, I had cards in the hole-- I also ran the teleprompter, I was the only one in the control room who knew the rundown as well as the director, which made me impossible to replace. My job also gave me final cut over the questions. So my response was, "Fuck you. Try it." He had no play, the host used my questions, and the director turned around and said it was the best spot we'd done all season. We didn't really need the blood on the floor, we just thought we did.

Was watching The Crown on TV last night and realized: BBC's ambush of Diana (based on lies) was part of that, too-- and what set the stage for AssFace and Twatter, all the other socials, and the rise of The Permanent Victim. And now my turd-loving friend and I don't even send each other Christmas cards.

I'm not singing kumbaya, I'll defend my rights-- my right to be done with us against them, boys against girls, orange against blue.
highdesert wrote: Obsessions become more intense as people age.
More stubborn about politics, yes, a lot of the time but not always. Sometimes we get mellower, too, and less impulsive. I still love my car, and I do obsess over it, but when my wife backed into it a couple of months ago, I was kind of like, "meh." I got it fixed eventually, but it didn't feel broken until I did, the way it would have when I was 38 or 43. I think a lot of us start thinking about what's really important as we get closer to the end of our ride, at least about some things.
“Freedom is something that dies unless it's used.”
― Hunter S. Thompson

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SunRiseWest wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 2:34 pm
highdesert wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 12:15 pm The extremes have always been around, it's just that the two parties isolated them more in the past. The media loves conflict, so when something political happens they interview the wingers of the right and left which helps intensify the conflict and keeps it in the news for days. Conflict makes money for TV and radio stations, newspapers, online sites... We live in a victimhood culture, seems like everyone is eligible to claim they're a victim and oppressed and use it to try and excuse some of their behavior. And that in itself can lead to more conflict.
Well said-- except it's like outsourcing: Everyone thinks it works, everyone buys into the formula, but in the end, everyone just gets screwed.

One of the most shocking moments for me was in the '80s I was working as a teleprompter trying to land a writing/producing spot on a tabloid TV show in New York in the darkest days of ambush interviews. I finally got a segment, with the topic chosen by the shark pit of segment producers-- "Battered Women Who Fight Back."

I confirm it with everyone: The guests only have to answer questions that they approve in advance, she agrees-- we'll have a shrink on the show. We all get on the same page-- we want to throw a hand grenade at every stupid cliche people have about survivors of DV, blow up the whole blame-the-victim attitude.

Day of the show, the lead segment producer comes in and says, "Here are your new questions," and they're like, "What did little Jimmy do when Daddy was on the floor in a pool of blood?" And when I refused? "This will be your last day on the set."

Fortunately, I had cards in the hole-- I also ran the teleprompter, I was the only one in the control room who knew the rundown as well as the director, which made me impossible to replace. My job also gave me final cut over the questions. So my response was, "Fuck you. Try it." He had no play, the host used my questions, and the director turned around and said it was the best spot we'd done all season. We didn't really need the blood on the floor, we just thought we did.

Was watching The Crown on TV last night and realized: BBC's ambush of Diana (based on lies) was part of that, too-- and what set the stage for AssFace and Twatter, all the other socials, and the rise of The Permanent Victim. And now my turd-loving friend and I don't even send each other Christmas cards.

I'm not singing kumbaya, I'll defend my rights-- my right to be done with us against them, boys against girls, orange against blue.
highdesert wrote: Obsessions become more intense as people age.
More stubborn about politics, yes, a lot of the time but not always. Sometimes we get mellower, too, and less impulsive. I still love my car, and I do obsess over it, but when my wife backed into it a couple of months ago, I was kind of like, "meh." I got it fixed eventually, but it didn't feel broken until I did, the way it would have when I was 38 or 43. I think a lot of us start thinking about what's really important as we get closer to the end of our ride, at least about some things.
And that's why, while I will firmly stand up for my rights, I don't obsess about Mr. Trump, Mrs. Pelosi, Mr. Schumer, or any other politician. Well said, SunRiseWest and highdesert.

It's really up to the people of California to make that racist Mulford Act die. If they don't...well, that's one reason, of several, why I can no longer live in California again. It's really unfortunate, because other than the nanny-state that it's become...I remember California as being a really wonderful state, possibly the best in our nation. Today, though...well, let's just say, "my, my, how things have changed...."
"San Francisco Liberal With A Gun"
http://www.sanfranciscoliberalwithagun.com/ (reloading instruction)
http://www.liberalsguncorner.com/ (podcast)
---------------------------------------
A true Liberal must back the Second Amendment 100%!

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CowboyT wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:10 pm It's really up to the people of California to make that racist Mulford Act die. If they don't...well, that's one reason, of several, why I can no longer live in California again. It's really unfortunate, because other than the nanny-state that it's become...I remember California as being a really wonderful state, possibly the best in our nation. Today, though...well, let's just say, "my, my, how things have changed...."
I don't see California's one party legislature repealing the Mulford Act, at least in my lifetime. I do see a federal court invalidating it - it could be a district, circuit or SCOTUS itself that does it. I too grew up in CA and it was a great state, but yes it's now the number one nanny state in the US.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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If we allow ourselves to think absolute thoughts about gun laws, we instigate unnecessary agitation in our hearts. I do not own every caliber in every type of weapon, yet paper targets fear me. That they talk to me goes more to beer than anything else. ;-) But, "a target is a target."

CDFingers
Image
Image
While the firelight's aglow strange shadows from the flames will grow
'Til things we've never seen will seem familiar

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Reading these posts and following the links makes me realize how much I do not and never have really understood the 2A. Some of the MAGA/Light Beer Belly Militia wannabe folks haven’t helped. All that being said… thank you for an honest open discussion! Looks like I have some “light” reading to do on ALL the amendments.
Ray
"But who prays for satan? Who in eighteen hundred years has had the common humanity to pray for the sinner that needed it most?"
-Mark Twain

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Rayj wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 12:35 am Reading these posts and following the links makes me realize how much I do not and never have really understood the 2A. Some of the MAGA/Light Beer Belly Militia wannabe folks haven’t helped. All that being said… thank you for an honest open discussion! Looks like I have some “light” reading to do on ALL the amendments.
Ray
You aren't alone. Put 3 people in a room and ask about the 2A and get 5-6 opinions. Short amendment, often 'partially', selectively or completely quoted, with 'emphasis' on various parts to reinforce one point or another.

Re: CA Mulford Act (open carry) challenge

46
An interesting twist we're seeing out there in social media land is folks saying, "if it's good enough for the Black Panthers, it's good enough for White Supremacists." Of course this refers to Mulford.

Well, now. Is it?

CDFingers
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Re: CA Mulford Act (open carry) challenge

47
CDFingers wrote: Mon Dec 05, 2022 1:39 pm An interesting twist we're seeing out there in social media land is folks saying, "if it's good enough for the Black Panthers, it's good enough for White Supremacists." Of course this refers to Mulford.

Well, now. Is it?

CDFingers
Since the answer must be "yes" for the First Amendment here in the United States, as distasteful as White Supremacists are...the answer must also be "yes" for all other Amendments, too. Yes, including the Second. Phil Donahue was right.

I would, by the way, remind those making that statement--and those quoting it--that it was White Supremacists that passed and signed the Mulford Act into law...don't forget that part!
Last edited by CowboyT on Tue Dec 13, 2022 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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