Republicans suggest defunding Veteran Affairs even though it helps 9 million vets

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Republican legislators are starting to suggest defunding the Department of Veteran Affairs (VA), the office founded in 1989 to assist with veteran needs. The VA assists with getting veterans mental and physical healthcare, educational opportunities, community support, and other everyday housing and living needs.

An Arizona legislator, captured on video participating in a mock congressional hearing, said he supported shutting down the department.

"That's sort of what I'm thinking because ... I hear no good stories. I had zero in my district," the legislator said in a video posted by the far-right watchdog group Patriot Takes. "So I guess it's a matter of us leading the fight to defund it."
More story at: https://www.rawstory.com/republicans-s ... lion-vets/

This will not go well for the GOPathetic party.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Republicans suggest defunding Veteran Affairs even though it helps 9 million vets

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This is a topic that comes up periodically and it's not always brought up by Republicans. The issue I've read isn't if we provide veterans benefits, it's if we should be maintaining a separate system of hospitals and health care facilities for 9 million vets. The argument is that veterans care should be integrated into Tricare and get treated in local health care facilities, in many cases getting faster care than waiting months for appointments and driving hundreds of miles to a VA facility.

We spend about $250 billion a year on the US Dept of Veterans Affairs, people question what is the best way to provide medical services to eligible US veterans. The article makes it sound like a black and white issue, it's gray.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Republicans suggest defunding Veteran Affairs even though it helps 9 million vets

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highdesert wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:24 am This is a topic that comes up periodically and it's not always brought up by Republicans. The issue I've read isn't if we provide veterans benefits, it's if we should be maintaining a separate system of hospitals and health care facilities for 9 million vets. The argument is that veterans care should be integrated into Tricare and get treated in local health care facilities, in many cases getting faster care than waiting months for appointments and driving hundreds of miles to a VA facility.

We spend about $250 billion a year on the US Dept of Veterans Affairs, people question what is the best way to provide medical services to eligible US veterans. The article makes it sound like a black and white issue, it's gray.
I've read about that. It makes sense, but when you merge two really different administrative sets, you get chaos. The good selling point is that it's cheaper. They'll need a bigger plan. Maybe universal health care.

CDFingers
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Nothing's for certain--it could always go wrong.
Come in when it's raining; go on out when it's gone.

Re: Republicans suggest defunding Veteran Affairs even though it helps 9 million vets

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CDFingers wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:31 am
highdesert wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:24 am This is a topic that comes up periodically and it's not always brought up by Republicans. The issue I've read isn't if we provide veterans benefits, it's if we should be maintaining a separate system of hospitals and health care facilities for 9 million vets. The argument is that veterans care should be integrated into Tricare and get treated in local health care facilities, in many cases getting faster care than waiting months for appointments and driving hundreds of miles to a VA facility.

We spend about $250 billion a year on the US Dept of Veterans Affairs, people question what is the best way to provide medical services to eligible US veterans. The article makes it sound like a black and white issue, it's gray.
I've read about that. It makes sense, but when you merge two really different administrative sets, you get chaos. The good selling point is that it's cheaper. They'll need a bigger plan. Maybe universal health care.

CDFingers
As a retired RN with 40 years working in the non-government healthcare system, I agree on the need for universal health care. Also having Tricare is not free in many cases. There are charges and copayments under Tricare that varies between plans. The VA system for veterans is free once you are in the system. My Dad a medically retired Air Force Warrant Officer with 27 years active duty, worked hard at understanding the VA and Champus and later Tricare. He was a VFW member that helped assist Veterans in getting enrolled in the VA system. Remember Tricare is medical insurance run by the government for active duty and retired military along with their dependents. The VA is for military veterans. The VA will pay some cost for private medical care where there isn't a VA clinic or hospital available.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Republicans suggest defunding Veteran Affairs even though it helps 9 million vets

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CDFingers wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 8:31 am
highdesert wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:24 am This is a topic that comes up periodically and it's not always brought up by Republicans. The issue I've read isn't if we provide veterans benefits, it's if we should be maintaining a separate system of hospitals and health care facilities for 9 million vets. The argument is that veterans care should be integrated into Tricare and get treated in local health care facilities, in many cases getting faster care than waiting months for appointments and driving hundreds of miles to a VA facility.

We spend about $250 billion a year on the US Dept of Veterans Affairs, people question what is the best way to provide medical services to eligible US veterans. The article makes it sound like a black and white issue, it's gray.
I've read about that. It makes sense, but when you merge two really different administrative sets, you get chaos. The good selling point is that it's cheaper. They'll need a bigger plan. Maybe universal health care.

CDFingers

Personally I'd rather that the VA spent money on improving health care for veterans, instead of on maintaining many old facilities or building new ones. I expect when universal health care rolls out that separate programs like Medicaid, Medicare, VA Health...will be collapsed into it, maybe with different benefits or a different share of cost. Health care is a huge but critical part of our society but it also needs to be more efficient including reducing drug costs.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Republicans suggest defunding Veteran Affairs even though it helps 9 million vets

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Points taken. Yet, if every condition is covered under a universal health care system, then vets could just get the health care they need, and money would be saved via administrative costs-savings. I think the only way to reach conservatives is with an economic argument. It's hard to argue with faster, better, cheaper.

CDFingers
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Nothing's for certain--it could always go wrong.
Come in when it's raining; go on out when it's gone.

Re: Republicans suggest defunding Veteran Affairs even though it helps 9 million vets

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CDFingers wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 10:44 am Points taken. Yet, if every condition is covered under a universal health care system, then vets could just get the health care they need, and money would be saved via administrative costs-savings. I think the only way to reach conservatives is with an economic argument. It's hard to argue with faster, better, cheaper.

CDFingers
You're right ! Universal health care will cost trillions and the economic argument will be critical to win over conservatives and legislators in swing districts, not only initially but every year when there is continuing legislation to keep universal health care afloat.

We really need to look closely at Canada's system which is similar to most of Europe, it's based on health insurance in each province. They went through the whole "socialize medicine" scare in the 1960s.

Part of the criticism of the current VA hospital system is you're serving only 7% of the population and if it was redesigned we could serve a lot more. While still providing excellent care to veterans.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Republicans suggest defunding Veteran Affairs even though it helps 9 million vets

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We could just make Medicare the universal healthcare. When you are born you get a SSN and a Medicare Number. For those that are impoverished they also get Medicaid. The nice part of that is we still would have our private system of doctors and hospitals to choose from for our care. Unlike Canada and most of Europe where you get seen by the assigned doctor who could be a Dr. OZ or Dr. Nick or a caring wonderful doctor. I worked with doctors that had left Canada after the change because their income dropped and caseload increased with administrators telling them how to practice medicine. These Doctors were internal medicine specialist, orthopedic and plastic surgeons. Along with some General Practice doctors that had too many patients dumped on them for their caseload. I worked with British RNs that much preferred our system of medical care. Many of the countries like Canada and the British healthcare works on the triage system. Unless it is a life or limb threatening condition, you can wait. Even in counties like Great Britain there are private doctors. not part of the NHS and you can be seen and treated, if you are like the old C&W song, "If you got the money honey, I got the time".
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Republicans suggest defunding Veteran Affairs even though it helps 9 million vets

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The sad thing with veterans who may be concerned for the services they receive from the VA, rather than feeling disgusted from these corporate lackey politicians who votes to defund the VA and moving toward politicians who promise them support and Medicare for All, many conservative veterans move toward ever more angry politicians who reflect their disgust at politics: Demagogues with corporate masters who win in every case.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Republicans suggest defunding Veteran Affairs even though it helps 9 million vets

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Bisbee wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:02 pm The sad thing with veterans who may be concerned for the services they receive from the VA, rather than feeling disgusted from these corporate lackey politicians who votes to defund the VA and moving toward politicians who promise them support and Medicare for All, many conservative veterans move toward ever more angry politicians who reflect their disgust at politics: Demagogues with corporate masters who win in every case.
Pointing out some of these right wing vets want services for vets in general, but do not support a system that gives all people services. That is a problem we face. I’m not at all opposed to services especially for vets disabled during their service, but there should be a universal system in place for all. Vets getting disabled after service should be covered under the same system as all the rest of the people.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Republicans suggest defunding Veteran Affairs even though it helps 9 million vets

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tonguengroover wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:17 pm Vets deserve everything for their service and risking it all for our corporate America. hehe No seriously they deserve special treatment.
With a professional military it’s just a career choice. They deserve more only if wounded. Otherwise they don’t deserve more than a research scientist spending their life looking for a cure to diseases like cancer or other people keeping our society moving forward. Singling out professional groups for special treatment is exactly why we don’t have universal coverage for all. Every vet should be supporting universal coverage and demanding the same healthcare for all. It is what some vet organizations say that they fought for us, if so yes I support extra services for those wounded or otherwise disabled. We don’t need special classes of people through military service or law enforcement service. If we had mandatory service I could buy the idea of sacrifice better. As it is adults make adult choices and choosing a profession is one of them. Get in line with the rest of us.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Republicans suggest defunding Veteran Affairs even though it helps 9 million vets

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sikacz wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:30 pm
tonguengroover wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:17 pm Vets deserve everything for their service and risking it all for our corporate America. hehe No seriously they deserve special treatment.
With a professional military it’s just a career choice. They deserve more only if wounded. Otherwise they don’t deserve more than a research scientist spending their life looking for a cure to diseases like cancer or other people keeping our society moving forward. Singling out professional groups for special treatment is exactly why we don’t have universal coverage for all. Every vet should be supporting universal coverage and demanding the same healthcare for all. It is what some vet organizations say that they fought for us, if so yes I support extra services for those wounded or otherwise disabled. We don’t need special classes of people through military service or law enforcement service. If we had mandatory service I could buy the idea of sacrifice better. As it is adults make adult choices and choosing a profession is one of them. Get in line with the rest of us.
Architect's don't work in dangerous conditions. Swamps deserts oceans and have bullets bombs shot at them.
Gimmie a break
A rain a-fall, but the dirt it tough
A yut a yook, but yood nah nuff
- Bob Marley

Re: Republicans suggest defunding Veteran Affairs even though it helps 9 million vets

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tonguengroover wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:42 pm
sikacz wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:30 pm
tonguengroover wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 3:17 pm Vets deserve everything for their service and risking it all for our corporate America. hehe No seriously they deserve special treatment.
With a professional military it’s just a career choice. They deserve more only if wounded. Otherwise they don’t deserve more than a research scientist spending their life looking for a cure to diseases like cancer or other people keeping our society moving forward. Singling out professional groups for special treatment is exactly why we don’t have universal coverage for all. Every vet should be supporting universal coverage and demanding the same healthcare for all. It is what some vet organizations say that they fought for us, if so yes I support extra services for those wounded or otherwise disabled. We don’t need special classes of people through military service or law enforcement service. If we had mandatory service I could buy the idea of sacrifice better. As it is adults make adult choices and choosing a profession is one of them. Get in line with the rest of us.
Architect's don't work in dangerous conditions. Swamps deserts oceans and have bullets bombs shot at them.
Gimmie a break
Do you realize how few members of the eight uniform services, Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Space Force, Coast Guard, Commissioned Corps of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and Commissioned Corps of the Public Health Service actually see any combat. Even within the uniformed military services it is a small percentage. Doing a search on the percent of military personnel that see combat it is 10% or one out of ten see combat.
https://www.midwestdisability.com/blog/ ... ee-combat/
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Republicans suggest defunding Veteran Affairs even though it helps 9 million vets

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tonguengroover wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 5:15 pm Doesn't matter. The possibility of getting in or near danger is real.
It's like working for the government for less money than the civilian side but you get a pension and usually cheaper healthcare. Civil servants, ya know.
I remember a sign on an overpass as you were leaving Carswell AFB in Fort Worth, TX, Now the Naval JRB at Carswell Field,

CAUTION You Are About To Enter The Most Dangerous Place In America, A US Public Highway! Please Drive With Caution.

Have you really looked at the pay scale for a career military NCO, Warrant Officer, or Officer. Also remember the benefits, 30 days paid leave, free medical care, rations or mess allowance, on Base housing or housing allowance, on base shopping and recreational facilities for personnel and families. Also a great retirement pay and benefits.

I say Base since I was a SAC Brat and not an army or navy brat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniformed ... ted_States

As for danger in the jobs, the military didn't even make the top 25 jobs in America. They'd list pilots and air crew members but only civilian and the most danger was a in pilot private aircraft owners.

https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-to ... ted-states
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Republicans suggest defunding Veteran Affairs even though it helps 9 million vets

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"For both types of cadet/midshipman (Academy and non-active duty ROTC), their basic pay rate is $1,217.10, effective 1 January 2022, which is "the monthly rate equal to 35 percent of the basic pay of a commissioned officer in the pay grade O–1 with less than two years of service."[47][22]["

Twelve hundred a month. Uh huh
A rain a-fall, but the dirt it tough
A yut a yook, but yood nah nuff
- Bob Marley

Re: Republicans suggest defunding Veteran Affairs even though it helps 9 million vets

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Base pay for all branches is just that, it's the base which varies by years of service and rank. Then you have to add on the allowances and incentives to get a full picture of how much enlisted and officers take home. Base pay doesn't tell the full story.
https://myarmybenefits.us.army.mil/Bene ... s?serv=121
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Republicans suggest defunding Veteran Affairs even though it helps 9 million vets

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highdesert wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:30 am Base pay for all branches is just that, it's the base which varies by years of service and rank. Then you have to add on the allowances and incentives to get a full picture of how much enlisted and officers take home. Base pay doesn't tell the full story.
https://myarmybenefits.us.army.mil/Bene ... s?serv=121
I gave a link to the pay scales for the military. As for "Base" that referred to the land your feet are on not the pay scale. But it is obvious that some that have never been around the military civilization would not understand the difference between Base, Post, Fort, or Station, when referring to military installations.

Edit. the pay scales I linked to are the pay scales for rank and time in service. For certain jobs like pilots, or hazardous duty areas (Combat) or certain specialties link doctors there are extra bonus pay on top of the regular pay.
Last edited by TrueTexan on Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

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