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I've never understood why no one agues in court that the right to privacy is explicitly spelled out in the 4th amendment.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
What is privacy, after all, if not being secure in your person, houses, papers, and effects?
100+ recreational uses of firearms
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Re: SCOTUS issues decision overturning Roe v Wade and Casey

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Eris wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 10:54 pm Forced pregnancy is a seizure of your person.
Yup. But these originalists have searched the constitutional PDF and not found "abortion." Guns should also be protected under privacy. Really, anything in your home that isn't hurting someone else should be. That is where abortion wobbles. Clearly, something is harmed. Living? No. But alive. Don't get me wrong, I support the right absolutely.

Re: SCOTUS issues decision overturning Roe v Wade and Casey

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If Democrats had only followed up and legalized abortion in federal statute law, then the "privacy right" accepted by the Roe decision wouldn't have been relevant. Instead the Catholic belief that life begins at conception became accepted among religious conservatives of many denominations and mixed with the culture warriors in the Republican Party their goal became to overturn Roe. The bishops of the US Catholic Church became obsessed with "right to life", which in their eyes made abortion the greatest sin, which is not accepted by the current pope.

No court decision is every fully settled law, it can always be modified or repealed. RBG and other jurists felt the "equal protection clause" of the 14th Amendment was the most solid constitutional anchor for abortion but the fiction of a "privacy right" was used instead.

Proponents of same-sex marriage took a more gradual approach, the first country to legalize it was the Netherlands in 2001 and the first US state was Massachusetts in 2004 and in between there were court cases and media debates and by 2015 with Obergefell it became the law of the land. Opinion polls showed a change in public attitudes between 2004 and 2015. Change takes time and as RBG stated there was already some talk happening in the 1970s about legalizing abortion, but the country would have been more ready for it in the 1980s when public attitudes had progressed.
Last edited by highdesert on Tue Jun 28, 2022 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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I believe the majority of the people believe in a woman’s right to choose. What we have ended up with is a minority religious opinion due to our court being represented by six justices with a catholic background. With two actually flat out lying at their confirmation hearings. The adherence to a separation of church and state should have been followed more closely and judges religious upbringing should have been just as much a factor as the lies they stated on the law. I think a case could be made for impeachment of at least two of the justices. Unfortunately the dems don’t have enough votes to make it stick.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: SCOTUS issues decision overturning Roe v Wade and Casey

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sikacz wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:24 am On a side note, biden won’t push any of this since he is a devout catholic and is probably doing a happy dance behind the scenes.
Biden is Catholic, but he supports abortion as does Pelosi and it's an election year. Recently the Catholic archbishop of San Francisco where Pelosi lives banned his priests from giving her communion over her defense of abortion. Recall that in 2021 the Catholic bishop of San Diego Robert McElroy wrote an op ed article condemning how communion (Eucharist) had been weaponized in the Catholic abortion wars. The pope just appointed McElroy a cardinal, that honor should have gone to the archbishop of Los Angeles but he's an old reactionary deep in the muck of the abortion wars. What the Catholic bishops believe is not always what rank and file Catholics believe, according to surveys many Catholics support abortion.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: SCOTUS issues decision overturning Roe v Wade and Casey

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highdesert wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:47 am
sikacz wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 6:24 am On a side note, biden won’t push any of this since he is a devout catholic and is probably doing a happy dance behind the scenes.
Biden is Catholic, but he supports abortion as does Pelosi and it's an election year. Recently the Catholic archbishop of San Francisco where Pelosi lives banned his priests from giving her communion over her defense of abortion. Recall that in 2021 the Catholic bishop of San Diego Robert McElroy wrote an op ed article condemning how communion (Eucharist) had been weaponized in the Catholic abortion wars. The pope just appointed McElroy a cardinal, that honor should have gone to the archbishop of Los Angeles but he's an old reactionary deep in the muck of the abortion wars. What the Catholic bishops believe is not always what rank and file Catholics believe, according to surveys many Catholics support abortion.
Somehow I don’t believe his truthfulness on this and a few other issues. He’ll have to prove me wrong. Taking the threat of changes to the court shows his position. He likes having six judges that are catholic.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

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Republican presidents watched Republican justices they appointed move left, Earl Warren was the most famous, but also David Souter, John Paul Stevens, Lewis Powell and Harry Blackmun. Scalia who was Catholic and very conservative was a reliable vote so they looked for more like him. Kennedy who was Catholic was never in that traditionist group and of course Sotomayor is not. Yup, too many Catholics and the wrong type of Catholic on SCOTUS and too many Ivy League lawyers, there are more religions or no religion and more law schools in the US.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Wino wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:48 am Our local sheriff and DA have said they have no intentions of prosecuting anyone regarding the abortion issue. Will have to see what form of punishment Guv. Abbott can enforce to make them do his bidding.
Except women needing the service will have to travel far for a legal one or go to some shady back room operation.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

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sikacz wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 9:06 am
Wino wrote: Mon Jun 27, 2022 7:48 am Our local sheriff and DA have said they have no intentions of prosecuting anyone regarding the abortion issue. Will have to see what form of punishment Guv. Abbott can enforce to make them do his bidding.
Except women needing the service will have to travel far for a legal one or go to some shady back room operation.
Texas abortions back to where it was in 1960's - Mexico or New Mexico.
"Being Republican is more than a difference of opinion - it's a character flaw." "COVID can fix STUPID!"
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Yup it's legal in New Mexico but not all places in Mexico,
As of June 2022, abortion is available on request to any woman up to twelve weeks into a pregnancy in Mexico City and the states of Oaxaca, Hidalgo, Veracruz, Colima, Baja California, Sinaloa, Guerrero and Baja California Sur.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Mexico

It is legal in Canada to the north or in some Caribbean countries.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-abor ... SKCN0YH17C
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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With the SCOTUS and other courts trying to remove the rights of the people, to satisfy the beliefs of a few, I am reminded there is the little noticed Ninth Amendment.
Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
The Ninth Amendment was James Madison’s attempt to ensure that the Bill of Rights was not seen as granting to the people of the United States only the specific rights it addressed. In recent years, some have interpreted it as affirming the existence of such “unenumerated” rights outside those expressly protected by the Bill of Rights.
Full article here:https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitutio ... _amendment

Since the Repug originalist want to go back to the meaning from the original writings, they need to include this in their lack of thoughts.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

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sikacz wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:47 am There should be a simple standard, if it’s not you and your body you don’t have a say.
And if it's not YOUR wedding you don't get to decided whether a cake gets baked or not.

You know, it really should be simple.

If you oppose gay marriage don't marry someone of the same sex.

If you oppose abortion, don't get an abortion.

If you don't like Kool-Aid, don't drink Kool-Aid.
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sikacz wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:47 am There should be a simple standard, if it’s not you and your body you don’t have a say.
Yup. Medically speaking, until a fetus is viable, it's pretty similar to a tumor. Perhaps our religious countrymen/women find cancer to be god's will?

Brian developed necessary for viability is at 23 weeks.
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/19/book ... brain.html

I don't have any ethical dilemmas until that point. There is no "there" there. It gets a lot murkier for me thereafter, but remains the woman's choice.

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The last front are medication abortions.
"The Justice Department will use every tool at our disposal to protect reproductive freedom," said [US AG Merrick] Garland. He added that "few rights are more central to individual freedom than the right to control one's own body." That last statement is a bit ironic coming from a federal government that still criminalizes marijuana (not to mention many other drugs), routinely cooperates with local police departments to catch people having sex for money, tried to strong-arm employees of private companies into getting vaccinated, and is instituting a new war on nicotine.

But at least Garland recognizes that people have some right to control their own bodies. That's unambiguously a good thing.
https://reason.com/2022/06/29/can-the-f ... ion-pills/


And from Biden's HHS secretary. "Biden’s Health Secretary: ‘No Magic Bullet’ for Preserving Abortion Access"
https://archive.ph/HDoxf
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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featureless wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 8:21 am
sikacz wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 6:47 am There should be a simple standard, if it’s not you and your body you don’t have a say.
Yup. Medically speaking, until a fetus is viable, it's pretty similar to a tumor. Perhaps our religious countrymen/women find cancer to be god's will?

Brian developed necessary for viability is at 23 weeks.
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/19/book ... brain.html

I don't have any ethical dilemmas until that point. There is no "there" there. It gets a lot murkier for me thereafter, but remains the woman's choice.
Ever hear of Mary Baker Eddy and 1st Church of Christ, Scientist?

We had next-door neighbors who were Christian Scientists, and the wife's mother one summer was dying of stomach cancer. Nobody had A/C back then and all the windows were open...the bedroom the poor woman was in, faced windows to my parents' bedroom. We boys were all off at summer camp so we didn't have to hear the old lady moaning and screaming in pain all summer while her daughter, son-in-law, and grandchildren prayed for her--but didn't get her a doctor and morphine.

But it was God's Will, according to them.

Their dog had distemper and they didn't have him treated nor euthanized. He ended up biting me 3 times and I still have a scar from his fang at the base of my left thumb.
"Rights aren’t rights if someone can take them away. They’re privileges. That’s all we’ve ever had in this country is a bill of temporary privileges."--George Carlin

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