Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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Now confirmed 14 students and teacher killed. Shooter also killed.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/childre ... d2d01c027a

Also Gov. Abbott confirmed that shooter killed his grandmother before going to the school.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/texas-elemen ... d=84940951
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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I generally don't comment on these threads, because they disgust me a bit. Not trying to be a dick, but on every gun forum, when lives are lost people state their regret...and then its all about them and the gun control movement. Its the same EXACT discussion every bloody time, and it really makes me sick people want to talk about their gun rights / or more gun control when children have been murdered again. WHAT'S THE FUCKING POINT? Nothing is going to change!!!
I have watched these discussions play out identically since Patrick Purdy.
Sorry, needed to vent. Call me a dick and tell me to go away.
“I think there’s a right-wing conspiracy to promote the idea of a left-wing conspiracy”

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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Yeah, that.

We've seen that strict controls in New York and California haven't prevented shootings. The record shows that gun ownership rates are inversely related to violent crime in other countries - Czech Republic comes to mind. The overwhelming majority of millions of legal gun owners don't shoot anyone on any given day.

America's horrendous record with social violence needs to be addressed. Guns play a role in it, and right-wing gun culture certainly plays a role in it, but read a 19th century treatises on knife fighting and you'll find exactly the same debates about the pervasive carriage of blades and their role in social violence. It's not the tool, it's the psychology and culture. The law won't change the culture.

I want to live in a culture where people shoot for fun, for sport, to hunt for food, or to protect themselves from dangerous wildlife - and that's it. I don't know how we get there.

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I just wish there could be an honest and unpandering discussion by the media and the politicians. It's fucking gross that both sides use these tragedies for their own purposes. Nobody on any side wants kids murdered. So how the fuck do we fix it? Honest discussion would be a great starting point. But Biden is already saying deer don't wear kevlar vests and the repugs are, well, repugs.so this shit will continue and fingers will be pointed and nothing meaningful will be done.

Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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Partially Quoting myself on the rare occasion I commented On A FB post:

Banning guns is politically impossible, so it's kind of a moot point in my mind. There are many more guns in the US than Americans. We would be better off focusing on realistic solutions that will have the greatest impact and which are likely to survive judicial review. UBCs Would be a better place to start if the NICS is updated as per the “NICS FIX” law 2019. It’s not a perfect solution to everything that ails our society, but constitutes a “reasonable restriction” according to Heller. I still think UBCs are an infringement, but certainly less so than Hardware bans.

Though I am primarily a handgun practical marksmanship shooter and formerly a certified pistol instructor and USPSA competitor, I have several AR -15s (which is a type of firearms that have been used most recent years by mass murderers) & it is the most popular rifle In The US with over a million sold. They are widely available and relatively cheap for a basic model.

I also have a Hi-point 995 9mm carbine which was the type of firearm used in the 1999 columbine murders. This was a firearm designed with the restrictions in the 1994 “crime bill” In Mind: it’s limited to a 10rd magazine and doesn’t have any military pattern features. It’s far less ergonomic, customizable and less intuitive to use than the AR -15 & In My experience far less reliable for the vagaries of ammunition. It’s half the price of an entry level AR-15 & It uses a pistol caliber. I would not rely on one for any sort of situation other than shooting cans at 25 yards.

The mass murderers will always be able to find a weapon. And a hi point 995 carbine will still cause enough wounding or fatalities to untreated victims. There was no mass media calling for the banning of hi-point carbines in the aftermath of the columbine shootings In 1995.

Most firearms enthusiasts know that the “intermediate” 5.56 round is traveling almost 3x the velocity of standard 9mm ammunition (or 2x out of a carbine.) Around 2900 to 3000 ft./s depending on the barrel length, twist & weight of the projectile. Standard 5.56 ammo can defeat level 3a body armor but generally not lvl. 4 plates. Against civilians with no protection the round causes extreme physical trauma due to the velocity of the round.

So with a much less deadly round (9mm) and carbine hi-point 995 the columbine murderer where still able to murder similar numbers of children, with things like 10rd magazine restrictions already in place.

Pre-baked Political positions on hardware bans are inadequate to deal with the huge problems of a judicial system steeped in inequity & white supremacy; crippling poverty, rising white/Christian nationalism, and used to divide us. The root causes of violence in this country are glossed over in favor of entrenched positions.


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Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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An 18-year-old gunman opened fire Tuesday at a Texas elementary school, killing at least 18 children as he went from classroom to classroom, officials said, in the latest gruesome moment for a country scarred by a string of massacres. The attacker was killed by law enforcement.

The death toll also included three adults, according to state Sen. Roland Gutierrez, who said he had been briefed by state police. But it was not immediately clear whether that number included the attacker, or how many people were wounded.
The gunman, who was wearing body armor, crashed his car outside the school before going inside, Sgt. Erick Estrada of the Texas Department of Public Safety told CNN.
A Border Patrol agent who was working nearby when the shooting began rushed into the school without waiting for backup and shot and killed the gunman, who was behind a barricade, according to a law enforcement official speaking on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk about it.
https://apnews.com/article/uvalde-texas ... e787d092b2
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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AdministrativeReload wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 6:19 pm Senator Chris Murphy is demonstrating he is a guy who thinks it is about him or is at least capitalizing on heinous murders to get some free advertising on MSNBC --
https://twitter.com/MSNBC/status/1529216145957523458
He is gross.
Murphy is having a press conference this morning in which he will call for more restrictions that probably will be drawn from here:
https://democrats.org/wp-content/upload ... atform.pdf
https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/pa ... f-america/

The body armor angle appears to have been a story of opportunity. Allegedly, the shooter wore an empty plate carrier.
https://archive.ph/ZYirj
Last edited by DispositionMatrix on Wed May 25, 2022 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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wings wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 8:19 pm--snps--

America's horrendous record with social violence needs to be addressed. Guns play a role in it, and right-wing gun culture certainly plays a role in it, but read a 19th century treatises on knife fighting and you'll find exactly the same debates about the pervasive carriage of blades and their role in social violence. It's not the tool, it's the psychology and culture. The law won't change the culture. --snps--
Kid was bullied. It should not be OK to bully kids at school. Kid chose poorly, true. He was 18. It's our culture that allows these things to fester and end up in a mass shooting. We must be kinder to folks as a culture.

CDFingers
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If I had a gun for every ace I've drawn
I could arm a town the size of Zhytomyr

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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Two comments my wife observed relating to when she first moved to the US 25 years ago. She brought them up this morning. It seemed to her that we here glorify violence on the media and second everything seems to be geared primarily to 18 year old males. I added that even at the macro level we condone violence as a means of resolution instead of a nonviolent approach. It’s an okay boys, y’all have a problem fight it out. That to me fits in with her point. Unfortunately it’s deep in our culture and it’s not an easy fix. You can’t support violence as a means of resolving issues and demand immature or other wise impaired individuals can grasp the difference.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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sikacz wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 7:41 am Two comments my wife observed relating to when she first moved to the US 25 years ago. She brought them up this morning. It seemed to her that we here glorify violence on the media and second everything seems to be geared primarily to 18 year old males. I added that even at the macro level we condone violence as a means of resolution instead of a nonviolent approach. It’s an okay boys, y’all have a problem fight it out. That to me fits in with her point. Unfortunately it’s deep in our culture and it’s not an easy fix. You can’t support violence as a means of resolving issues and demand immature or other wise impaired individuals can grasp the difference.

She's right, all those Hollywood types who preach the anti-gun mantra, produce, direct or star in very violent movies and TV series. It's a winning formula that makes money for their investors. And yes we're geared to 18 year olds and higher, they're big consumers especially of tech products.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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Seems we're addicted to violence. It's on TV, movies, video games. I have an AR-15, bought it some decades ago to try and keep up my skills when I transitioned from regular army to reserves. In the intervening decades it has seen perhaps 2,500 rounds thru it. Each time a kid with one of these proves to me that there is no god, I wonder what I keep it for.

Someone tell Ted Cruz that The Constitution can be changed, altered... amended. If we don't wish to go that route some compromise will have to be achieved. Republicans are all about absolute protection for kids in the womb, but they're on their own in the classroom. Poverty, social inequality, mental health, all build character. What a bunch of characters we have in office.

I like my grandchildren more than my AR.

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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highdesert wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 7:46 am
sikacz wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 7:41 am Two comments my wife observed relating to when she first moved to the US 25 years ago. She brought them up this morning. It seemed to her that we here glorify violence on the media and second everything seems to be geared primarily to 18 year old males. I added that even at the macro level we condone violence as a means of resolution instead of a nonviolent approach. It’s an okay boys, y’all have a problem fight it out. That to me fits in with her point. Unfortunately it’s deep in our culture and it’s not an easy fix. You can’t support violence as a means of resolving issues and demand immature or other wise impaired individuals can grasp the difference.

She's right, all those Hollywood types who preach the anti-gun mantra, produce, direct or star in very violent movies and TV series. It's a winning formula that makes money for their investors. And yes we're geared to 18 year olds and higher, they're big consumers especially of tech products.
She’s a smarter person than I am. Glad I convinced her to marry me! LoL.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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What needs to be done is simple.

First, get rid of all of the mega-schools, put schools back in the neighborhood and small enough that every teacher knows every student by name and no class has more than a dozen kids. But that means no big football stadium. And smaller classes mean more teachers and that means higher taxes.

Second, start active discipline at the earliest stages. If a child is a bully or disruptive then the child gets sent home and provided true counseling. But there is no one at home and both parents (when there is two parents) are working and won't get paid so can't come home.

Third federalize drugs and provide them for free in neighborhood health clinics. But the WAR on DRUGS!

Fourth enact universal health care. But if that happens the drug companies will all stop researching cures. After all no other country makes medicines.

Fifth stop glorifying violence and shooting. But John Wick and Reacher...

Sixth, bring back shooting sports in the middle and upper grades. What, teach kids to shoot?

Seventh, support unionization and narrowing the gap between rich and poor. Make a two income family a choice rather than necessity. But that's SOCIALISM!

And understand that it took about fifty years to screw stuff up this much so it will take another half century or more to fix it.
To be vintage it must be older than me!
Stories coming to you from Deep South Texas!
The next gun I buy will be the next to last gun I ever buy. PROMISE!

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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For info
Texas State Sen. Roland Gutierrez, District 19 (D-San Antonio), said the Texas Rangers have learned the gunman bought the guns on the first day he legally could, on his 18th birthday.

"It was the first thing that he did on his 18th birthday," Gutierrez said. "It's astounding to me."
The K-12 School Shooting Database shows that California has had the highest number of school shootings since 1970, with 158. The only other state with over 100 school shootings since 1970 was Texas, with a total of 133. Florida has had a total of 90 school shootings

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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This.
sig230 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 8:54 am What needs to be done is simple.

First, get rid of all of the mega-schools, put schools back in the neighborhood and small enough that every teacher knows every student by name and no class has more than a dozen kids. But that means no big football stadium. And smaller classes mean more teachers and that means higher taxes.

Second, start active discipline at the earliest stages. If a child is a bully or disruptive then the child gets sent home and provided true counseling. But there is no one at home and both parents (when there is two parents) are working and won't get paid so can't come home.

Third federalize drugs and provide them for free in neighborhood health clinics. But the WAR on DRUGS!

Fourth enact universal health care. But if that happens the drug companies will all stop researching cures. After all no other country makes medicines.

Fifth stop glorifying violence and shooting. But John Wick and Reacher...

Sixth, bring back shooting sports in the middle and upper grades. What, teach kids to shoot?

Seventh, support unionization and narrowing the gap between rich and poor. Make a two income family a choice rather than necessity. But that's SOCIALISM!

And understand that it took about fifty years to screw stuff up this much so it will take another half century or more to fix it.

Re: Alleged shooter at elementary school in Uvalde, Texas in custody

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F4FEver wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 9:17 am For info
Texas State Sen. Roland Gutierrez, District 19 (D-San Antonio), said the Texas Rangers have learned the gunman bought the guns on the first day he legally could, on his 18th birthday.

"It was the first thing that he did on his 18th birthday," Gutierrez said. "It's astounding to me."
The K-12 School Shooting Database shows that California has had the highest number of school shootings since 1970, with 158. The only other state with over 100 school shootings since 1970 was Texas, with a total of 133. Florida has had a total of 90 school shootings
Those quotes can be found here
https://archive.ph/0TctU
and here
https://worldpopulationreview.com/state ... s-by-state.
At the latter link, "school shootings" and "mass shootings" are used interchangeably, with the former not being defined on that page.

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