Re: .45acp vs .45LC through layers of galvanized steel

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CDFingers wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 4:56 pm My Vaquero has both cylinders and I've shot 'em both, factory and reloads. Factory acp is snappier than factory LC. The plow handle grip is what is great about single actions. I've loaded LC up to 10 gr Unique under a 250 grainer. I still have some of those cannon rounds left. I could shoot them fine, but not often. You can't load acp hot or else you have to change your recoil spring. I could load acp hot for the Vaquero, but why bother? For me the LC is the most accurate round out of my Vaquero. My velocity with a 250gr RNFP @ 950 fps gives me the tightest groups. I have a Springfield 1911 also which is not picky with factory ammo. Thing's a tank. Collect 'em all, I say.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=45561&hilit=Springer+1911

CDFingers
The .45 Colt was originally intended to take down a horse at close range.
The original .45 Colt load was a 250 grain swaged conical flat point under 40 grains of black powder(2F IIRC). Very shortly after adoption that was reduced to 30 grains of black powder. The 40 grain loads would swell under heat and push the bullet past the crimp, and then under recoil, a bullet would jump forward and tie the whole works up. Rather inconvenient in the middle of a fight. The bullet weight was then increased to 255 and the powder weight reduced to 30 grains, which gave them performance that was still quite acceptable, and had much more expansion room in the case for hot weather. The original .45 Colt load, whether 30 grains or 40 grains was a very powerful revolver round, and was in fact king until the arrival of the .357 magnum.

Most ammo you encounter in the stores are the cowboy loads which are pretty mild, and quite frankly an absolute joy to shoot. But back in the day when the SAA was THE serious fighting gun, their ammo was a little more sporty than what we tend to shoot today...again, standard pressure stuff. I'm not aware of any SAAMI member ammo manufacturer that currently loads standard pressure ammo as stout as the old black powder loads.

I tend to load my stuff as light as I can get away with yet still have my sights shoot to point of aim. My Colt isn't what I'd call a "working gun", so it doesn't really go to deer camp too often (but sometimes). For those times I have some 250 Hornady's under a stout charge of 4227 at around 950 fps. Can't imagine any critter in Northern Nevada that wouldn't be hugely discouraged by that. Even the light cowboy loads, can't imagine any critter around here that would ask for seconds. Even loaded light, its still delivers a good bit of thump. Now if its two legged critters...well, I'd really rather have a semi-auto. So that's why my 1911 is usually what goes into the woods anymore. I'm more worried about some moron I come across in the woods, than any critter.
“I think there’s a right-wing conspiracy to promote the idea of a left-wing conspiracy”

Re: .45acp vs .45LC through layers of galvanized steel

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CD has a point about mass and momentum - if that bullet is moving at the same velocity, 250 grains should be nearly 10% higher momentum. But getting factory ammo to only go 850 fps out of a 10.5" barrel - with another inch of cylinder - would have to be a pretty anemic load. I see some cowboy stuff rated at 750 fps, but that's not what he's shooting.

Take another look at the two cartridges side by side. It isn't obvious from the video, but looking at the video preview in the OP, that isn't a 250 grain bullet. Looks to me like a 325 WFN - it's a ringer for the HSM bear loads, rated over 1100 fps. That would explain rather a lot. Not sure I'd want to shoot that out of anything smaller.

Or anything, really.

Re: .45acp vs .45LC through layers of galvanized steel

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I think it has more to do with foot lbs . If you have a both bullets of the same caliber going the same velocity and one is 100grains heavier its going to plow thought more stuff.

A typical 45 Long Colt cartridge has a 250 grain bullet and 860 fps muzzle velocity, giving it 411 ft lbs muzzle energy.

In comparison, a standard 45 ACP cartridge has a 230 grain bullet and 850 fps muzzle velocity, giving it 369 ft lbs muzzle energy. ( close as I could get comparison wise)
Pence makes no sense

Re: .45acp vs .45LC through layers of galvanized steel

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Energy and momentum are just different combinations of the same variables. Linear momentum is mass x velocity. Kinetic energy - ft/lbs - is 1/2 mass x velocity squared. In calculus terms, energy is the integral of momentum and momentum is the derivative of energy.

It's been a long time since I suffered through calculus, I had to look that up.
https://profoundphysics.com/momentum-vs ... ifferences

Since they have the same diameter, and hence cross-sectional area, sectional density just varies in proportion to mass. SD = mass/area.

All three of these metrics favor a 250 grain bullet in .45 Colt at the same velocity, but the advantage is small - I get 8.7%. I don't think that's enough to account for the difference in penetration here. A 325 grain bullet gains 41% at the same velocity, but you won't get the same velocity from a 10" barrel. The math gets more complicated if we push the bullet harder. Sectional density doesn't change, but if we compare ACP running 230 grains at 830 fps to 325 grain Colt at 1100 fps, the latter has nearly twice the momentum and 600 more ft/lbs to play with. I think double the momentum explains double the penetration.

I didn't do great at physics, but I enjoy this particular application.

Re: .45acp vs .45LC through layers of galvanized steel

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The .45 Colt round is one of the first rounds I ever reloaded. It is versatile and capable of going from "mild" to "wild", due to the size of the case.

Currently I have two loads for .45 Colt. The first one is a "cowboy action" style load using Titegroup, and it is pretty mild. The other load...isn't. :-)

Original ballistics for the .45 Colt round, using the 40 grains of black powder, were about 950 ft/sec with the 255gr cast bullet. That's pretty powerful when it hits.
"San Francisco Liberal With A Gun"
http://www.sanfranciscoliberalwithagun.com/ (reloading instruction)
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A true Liberal must back the Second Amendment 100%!

Re: .45acp vs .45LC through layers of galvanized steel

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sig230 wrote: Thu May 05, 2022 10:01 am I gotta wonder why any civilian would even be asking about penetration through galvanized steel?
Given the tone, I must ask, what's somehow wrong with a civilian wondering about this?
"San Francisco Liberal With A Gun"
http://www.sanfranciscoliberalwithagun.com/ (reloading instruction)
http://www.liberalsguncorner.com/ (podcast)
---------------------------------------
A true Liberal must back the Second Amendment 100%!

Re: .45acp vs .45LC through layers of galvanized steel

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CowboyT wrote: Fri May 06, 2022 8:47 pm The .45 Colt round is one of the first rounds I ever reloaded. It is versatile and capable of going from "mild" to "wild", due to the size of the case.

Currently I have two loads for .45 Colt. The first one is a "cowboy action" style load using Titegroup, and it is pretty mild. The other load...isn't. :-)

Original ballistics for the .45 Colt round, using the 40 grains of black powder, were about 950 ft/sec with the 255gr cast bullet. That's pretty powerful when it hits.
8.5 gr Unique gives me 950fps with a 4 5/8 barrel.

CDFingers
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If I had a gun for every ace I've drawn
I could arm a town the size of Zhytomyr

Re: .45acp vs .45LC through layers of galvanized steel

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Probably my most versatile pistol. Ruger Blackhawk .45 colt/.45 ACP convertible. .45 colt is definitely a handloaders cartridge, but the .45 ACP cylinder keeps this pistol in action if for some reason all I can find is factory ammo. (Good luck finding .45 colt!)

Ammo loaded “wild” to “mild” left to right:

255 LSWC over 19.5 g h-110
250 LRN over 7.4 win 231
255 (home cast) LRN over 7.0 win 231
200 SWC (.45 ACP) over 5.1 Win 231

Even the “Keith load” up top is manageable. Hot but no where near .454 recoil. Downright pleasant in my Henry X model .45 colt.






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