Re: My Holy Grail Gun Search

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highdesert wrote: Thu Apr 28, 2022 7:23 am You won't find a new one at $249.00, much dearer now. Yes magnificent pistols, Ruger is tops in 22s.
https://ruger.com/products/markIVTarget/models.html
Funny that Ruger has brought back the 10" barrel after so many years of not producing them. I wonder how they're selling?

I enjoy shooting mine now and then, but I'm sure it's objectively too heavy for me. Fun the one time I did a real IHMSA match and used the Creedmoor reclining position, but that was many years ago.
IMR4227: Zero to 900 in 0.001 seconds

I'm only killing paper and my self-esteem.

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Re: My Holy Grail Gun Search

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Of course, if the last option was true, you'd think real Bullseye shooters would use longer-barreled .22s than they often do.
Or get barrels with a faster twist rate. I wonder if the twist rate typical in .22LR is truly optimized, or if it's just a historical artifact?

You would think this is something competitive shooters would have sorted out long ago. I simply don't know if .22 twist rates vary much. A quick search didn't answer the question clearly.
Last edited by Buck13 on Sat Apr 30, 2022 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
IMR4227: Zero to 900 in 0.001 seconds

I'm only killing paper and my self-esteem.

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Re: My Holy Grail Gun Search

29
I think weight and balance may play a role there. The 6 7/8" barrel is already a little front-heavy, and the whole thing weighs 44 oz unloaded. The 10" might be mechanically more accurate and certainly has a better sight radius - not that it matters out of a Ransom rest - but I wouldn't want to shoot it bullseye style.

I'd guess that velocity alone accounts for most of the difference in mechanical accuracy. Flatter trajectory and less time for wind drift to play a role if nothing else.

Re: My Holy Grail Gun Search

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wings wrote: Sat Apr 30, 2022 10:51 am less time for wind drift to play a role if nothing else.
That had crossed my mind, too. Unless the guy picks his days for testing very carefully or is lucky enough to live somewhere that often has negligible wind, those little .22 bullets could get pushed around pretty easily. Velocity sure wouldn't hurt.

The 10" barrel definitely spits them out faster. I can't remember which ammo, specifically, but when shooting the 10" back to back with the 5.5" or my 6" K22 revolver, I've sometimes heard the supersonic snap reflecting off the berm with the 10" and not the shorter barrels.
IMR4227: Zero to 900 in 0.001 seconds

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Re: My Holy Grail Gun Search

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wings wrote: Fri Apr 29, 2022 11:22 am You can also get alternatives direct from Altamont. None of the fingergroove rosewoods in stock at the moment, but they are pretty - and nearly half the price. Now I'm thinking about some of the panel-style grips as more practical alternatives for carry as a kit gun. I had looked at take-down 10/22s a couple years back, before I realized that the Hunter would fill the same niche but lighter and with more panache.
https://www.altamontco.com/pistol-grips/ruger/mark4/
I have the Altamonts on one gun (see photo above) and find the right-front edge of the grip to be too square for my comfort. It digs into my finger a bit. I hate to uglify them, but I'm very tempted to go at them with rasp/file/sandpaper and see how it goes.

It's too bad Volthanes for the MkII are so hard to find now. I find the original MkII grips too flat, so I'm always thinking of alternatives. Maybe I should just wrap the stock grip with some cork handlebar tape and see how that does. Definitely the cheapest option!
IMR4227: Zero to 900 in 0.001 seconds

I'm only killing paper and my self-esteem.

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Re: My Holy Grail Gun Search

35
At the local Turners today a used stainless 6 7/8 Barrel with Altamonts for $467. Pretty pristine condition. But I'm looking for a BBL

Put my paws on a MK IV Tactical 22/45 for $539. Not sure what I think about the 1911 like grip on it. They look kinda neat I guess if your into rails all over. Looks cluttery.
Shorter barrel too. Threaded 4.4"
Fit the hand really well. Actually better than my PPK/s
No regular BBL's so I left.
Pence makes no sense
Attachments
Ruger Tactical.jpg

Re: My Holy Grail Gun Search

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Dumb 2 part question of ignorance:
Wouldn't a faster twist rate increase centrifugal force and with it gyroscopic force, keeping the bullet less vulnerable to wind shifting its trajectory?
But wouldn't that, at the same time, use up a greater amount of the bullet's inertial force and velocity?
"Rights aren’t rights if someone can take them away. They’re privileges. That’s all we’ve ever had in this country is a bill of temporary privileges."--George Carlin

Re: My Holy Grail Gun Search

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Here ya go YT

https://www.viperbullets.com/2021/01/27 ... stability/
Ten minute read
Snip:
As shooters we are interested in two types of bullet stability—gyroscopic stability and dynamic stability. For a bullet to be stable you need to meet both of these conditions:

A bullet that is gyroscopically stable but dynamically unstable is not stable – it will tumble.

Bullet Flight
At this point I would like to touch on External Ballistics, and the three stages that a centre fire rifle bullet goes through.

SUPERSONIC FLIGHT: the bullet leaves th
Cross winds play a big part in the over-stabilised bullet problem. In a right hand twist barrel a wind from the right will force the bullet point down, assisting the bullet with its tracking. A wind from the left will lift the bullet and worsen the bullet tracking.

For long range shooting it is recommended to stick to a bullet barrel combination of a SG between SG1.4 and SG2.0. If the SG is below 1.4 go to a lighter bullet. If it is above SG2.0 go to a heavier bullet..,............
Pence makes no sense

Re: My Holy Grail Gun Search

38
So this finally happened.
Actually it happened rather quickly thanks to my friend on here willing to give up his MKII. Not sure he wants the attention so I won't divulge his name.
It's date of manufacture is 1983, second year of production, mine was made in 1991.
This one is in fantastic shape for it's age I think.
And weight, I forgot how heavy these baby's are. I love it. Plastic fantastic guns feel so cheap compared to full on steel guns.

I kinda feel whole again even though it's not a 6 7/8 inch barrel I kinda like the 5 inch more because it feels more balanced than the longer barrel.
I'm glad I kept the box.
I love it.! Thanks buddy.
Pence makes no sense
Attachments
Ruger MKII.jpg
Ruger MKII 2.jpg

Re: My Holy Grail Gun Search

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A friend of mine in town also owns a MKII (heavy barrel) like that one. He never shoots it but let me take it target practicing as long as I return it cleaned (of course... MKII). He says he keeps it because he bought it second hand with no paper trail. But he doesn’t like to target shoot and a .22 rimfire is not ideal for HD so I ask him. He shakes his head and replied cryptically, “Neighbors...”
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: My Holy Grail Gun Search

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tonguengroover wrote:So this finally happened.
Actually it happened rather quickly thanks to my friend on here willing to give up his MKII. Not sure he wants the attention so I won't divulge his name.
It's date of manufacture is 1983, second year of production, mine was made in 1991.
This one is in fantastic shape for it's age I think.
And weight, I forgot how heavy these baby's are. I love it. Plastic fantastic guns feel so cheap compared to full on steel guns.

I kinda feel whole again even though it's not a 6 7/8 inch barrel I kinda like the 5 inch more because it feels more balanced than the longer barrel.
I'm glad I kept the box.
I love it.! Thanks buddy.
I’m just glad it went to a good home. (I had the box at one point … not sure what happened to it.)

That’s the pistol I taught my then, 7 y/o son to shoot a handgun with. Now he’s 16 and he’s the only one of my kids interested in firearms.


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Re: My Holy Grail Gun Search

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I seem to remember mine was stamped "Government Target" something or other. This one has not.
It's stamped;
Ruger .22 cal Long Rifle
Mark II Target

Did they do "Government Target" only on some or was it just the 6 7/8 inch bull barrels?
The rifling and inside barrel is pristine! Two thumbs up!
Pence makes no sense

Re: My Holy Grail Gun Search

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Nice.

Read somewhere that the "government target" versions had some extra work done on the chamber, can't remember details. Enormous amounts written about customization, but the general opinion seems to be that MkII > MkIII. MkIV benefits from some tweaks like disconnecting the magazine release safety. Mine's stock, except that I picked the green fiber over the red that came installed.

Re: My Holy Grail Gun Search

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wings wrote: Thu May 26, 2022 5:32 pm Nice.

Read somewhere that the "government target" versions had some extra work done on the chamber, can't remember details. Enormous amounts written about customization, but the general opinion seems to be that MkII > MkIII. MkIV benefits from some tweaks like disconnecting the magazine release safety. Mine's stock, except that I picked the green fiber over the red that came installed.
I've heard that as well. Especially going from the old Standard to the new MK I.
I've got my test target that came in the box too.
I found this archived over at The High Road and I'm gonna quote the whole text of the post:
Shortly after its introduction in January of 1987, The American Rifleman did a report on the Ruger Government Target Model pistol. I found the following from this article:

"Ruger's Mark I and Mark II pistols have been used since the 1950s as .22 rimfire training guns by the U.S. military services.
A current version of the Mark II is replacing earlier service pistols by Ruger and other makers, and Ruger is now offering it for commercial sales.
The Ruger Government Target Model is in most respects identical to the Bull Barrel model, except it has a 6 7/8" barrel instead of the 5 1/2" tube of the older gun...The gun is rollmarked "Government Target Model" behind the ejection port where the military guns are marked "U.S."
The manufacturer states the Government Target Models are targeted using a patented laser sighting device at the factory. Government acceptance standards require that 10 shots must fall inside a 1 1/4" circle when fired from a range of 25 yds., and a test target is packed with each gun. Alsopacked with the pistol is a facsimile government technical manual..."

In October of 1987, Shooting Times author Dick Metcalf reported:

"...In essence, this new gun is a 6 7/8" bull-barrel version of the Mark II Target Model with higher profile adjustable sights...Created to meet U.S. military specifications for match-grade pistols, it has been chosen as the standard target and training handgun of the U.S. Armed Forces, replacing earlier models from Ruger and other manufacturers previously used for those purposes. The new civilian version of the Ruger Government Model (catalog designation 'MK678G') is identical to the military version, except the 'U.S.' stamping over the serial number is not present and the rear right side of the receiver is stamped 'Government Target Model.' From the domestic consumer's point of view, however, the most notable quality of the new gun is its accuracy...
Every Government Model .22 auto that leaves the Ruger plant is first targeted to military accuracy specifications via a special pistol laser sighting device...These specifications require 10 consecutive shots from a machine rest at 25 yards, all of which must fall within or cut the edge of a 1.25 inch bullseye. The target for each gun that's shipped with it is signed by the Ruger employee who tested the gun. That's the minimum required. If the test targets I have seen are any indication, the Government Models being shipped are considerably better.The test target for Shooting Times' review pistol measured less than one inch in extreme spread-10 shots in one ragged hole..."

On 1-30-91, my brother received the following letter from James Van Ness, Ruger Service Department Manager:

"This is in reference to your letter concerning the difference between the 5 1/2" bull barrel Target Model pistol and the GovernmentModel pistol.
...The basic difference is that we do target the Government Model at 25 yards with CCI Green Tag ammunition to insure it shoots a 1 1/4" group. This is not to say that you might not get the same results with your 5 1/2" bull barrel, but it would not have to in order to meet our manufacturing specifications.
The Government Model also has a heat treated chamber which allows us to hold it to a slightly tighter specification..."
Last edited by tonguengroover on Fri May 27, 2022 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Pence makes no sense

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