Democratic New York governor proposes more firearm laws

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Taking advantage of the Buffalo mass shooting, Hochul held a press conference.

Hochul to propose closing loopholes in New York's gun laws
Hochul told reporters that she wants to expand the state’s existing ban on some assault weapons to include what are called AOWs, or any other weapon. She said some of these guns are functionally assault weapons.

Hochul in October closed another loophole in the laws when she signed a bill that would outlaw so-called “ghost guns.” The guns are assembled after their components are ordered separately online in what are known as “buy, build and shoot” kits.

New York’s gun control laws, known collectively as the SAFE Act, are among the strictest in the nation. The gun used by the suspect, an automatic rifle known as an AR-15, is sold legally in New York. But the gun was modified with a high-capacity magazine that allows 30 shots per round.
I suspect the last statement either is either meant to earn a badge of honor among the Democratic readership or is deliberately intended to deceive.

Re: Democratic New York governor proposes more firearm laws

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New York’s gun control laws, known collectively as the SAFE Act, are among the strictest in the nation. The gun used by the suspect, an automatic rifle known as an AR-15, is sold legally in New York.
BUT NOT strict enough to keep a documented potential killer from legally buying guns. NOT the gun but the person. Issues well documented, but...is the kid's RKBA trump the 10 victims right to 'life liberty and the pursuit of happiness'??

Re: Democratic New York governor proposes more firearm laws

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F4FEver wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 8:04 am
New York’s gun control laws, known collectively as the SAFE Act, are among the strictest in the nation. The gun used by the suspect, an automatic rifle known as an AR-15, is sold legally in New York.
BUT NOT strict enough to keep a documented potential killer from legally buying guns. NOT the gun but the person. Issues well documented, but...is the kid's RKBA trump the 10 victims right to 'life liberty and the pursuit of happiness'??
The goal is not nor ever has been safety or saving lives. These tragedies are opportunities for Democrats to expand prohibitions on the possession of firearms. This is specific to NY, so plenty of Republicans might be onboard, too.

Re: Democratic New York governor proposes more firearm laws

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https://www.governor.ny.gov/news


Hochul held a press conference today about the following:
  • EOs:
    • Enforce the red flag law
    • Have police monitor social media
    • Have AG investigate how shooter "leveraged social media"
  • Legislation she supports or proposes:
    • Microstamping
    • Requirement that LEAs report firearms found at crime scenes within 24 hours
    • Expansion of definition of firearm to include things that are not firearms
She also said something about "loopholes" and background checks.

Governor Hochul unveils proposals to strengthen NY's gun laws in wake of Buffalo shooting
Following the announcement, James released a statement that said her office was launching investigations into the social media companies that the Buffalo shooter used to plan, promote, and stream his terror attack.
Hochul said a separate executive order would require state police to file for an Extreme Risk Protection Order when they believe an individual is a threat, bolstering the state's so-called red flag laws which exist to keep deadly weapons out of the hands of potentially dangerous people.

The governor also called on the state legislature to pass a package of bills that she said would close loopholes in state laws and provide law enforcement with more tools to fight gun violence, including requiring that police report gun crimes within 24 hours and requiring microstamping on semiautomatic pistols sold in New York.
Hochul unveils gun executive orders in wake of racist-fueled Buffalo massacre
The package includes an executive order that would require State Police to seize weapons under the state’s red flag law from potentially dangerous people “whenever they have probable cause to believe that an individual is a threat to themselves or others,” Hochul is announcing Wednesday afternoon.
Hochul is also targeting online extremism by ordering State Police to dedicate a unit to monitoring social media for potential threats by extremists.
The governor is also directing state Attorney General Letitia James to investigate how Gendron leveraged social media to spread so-called “replacement theory,” which claims a cabal of Democrats is conspiring to replace white Americans with non-white immigrants.

Re: Democratic New York governor proposes more firearm laws

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featureless wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 9:50 am
F4FEver wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 8:47 am
featureless wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 4:42 pm Those all sound like they totally would have prevented this. Totally.
A better, more comprehensive 'red flag law' may have...
How? There's already one on the books that nobody implemented.
How? Really..how about actually using the one that's on the books? If a 'law' is ignored, that doesn't automatically mean it's a 'bad' law. I that law was 'implemented..in Colorado, these massacres 'may' have been prevented.

Re: Democratic New York governor proposes more firearm laws

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Crow wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 10:48 am New York allows "automatic" rifles? And I can make this gun shoot "30 shots per round"? That's a... *does math* ... 900 shot clip!
FFS how hard is it to get basic facts right as a reporter?
Crow
Once upon a time in a land far far away there were people who were 'proof readers'.
To be vintage it must be older than me!
Stories coming to you from Deep South Texas!
The next gun I buy will be the next to last gun I ever buy. PROMISE!

Re: Democratic New York governor proposes more firearm laws

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F4FEver wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 8:04 am
New York’s gun control laws, known collectively as the SAFE Act, are among the strictest in the nation. The gun used by the suspect, an automatic rifle known as an AR-15, is sold legally in New York.
BUT NOT strict enough to keep a documented potential killer from legally buying guns. NOT the gun but the person. Issues well documented, but...is the kid's RKBA trump the 10 victims right to 'life liberty and the pursuit of happiness'??
There are something like 77 million people who claim to own guns in the US. There were around 45,000 gun deaths last year in the US, mostly suicides. But even if all of them were homicides, and each person was killed by one other person, that would be 45,000 people whose "RBKA trump(s)... victims right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness." 77,000,000 - 45,000 = 76,955,000 gun owners who did NOT kill someone last year. Do the shit decisions of what is somewhere in the vicinity of 20,000 people nationwide trump the constitutional rights of nearly 77 million of their fellow citizens? Of course not.
Crow
Minute Of Average

Re: Democratic New York governor proposes more firearm laws

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F4FEver wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 10:33 am
featureless wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 9:50 am
F4FEver wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 8:47 am
featureless wrote: Wed May 18, 2022 4:42 pm Those all sound like they totally would have prevented this. Totally.
A better, more comprehensive 'red flag law' may have...
How? There's already one on the books that nobody implemented.
How? Really..how about actually using the one that's on the books? If a 'law' is ignored, that doesn't automatically mean it's a 'bad' law. I that law was 'implemented..in Colorado, these massacres 'may' have been prevented.
That's exactly my point. NY already has a red flag law. Nobody used it to prevent the Buffalo shooting. How would a more comprehensive law have changed that? If we don't enforce the gun laws we already have, how do we measure efficacy and why do we presume newer shinier laws will be more efficacious and more implemented? We can't and we don't. So we're merely "piling on" with more layers of prophylactic that nobody puts on. Twelve rubbers won't prevent pregnancy if you don't even put on the first.

And for what it's worth, I'm not against red flag laws, provided they are not persecutory.

Re: Democratic New York governor proposes more firearm laws

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Crow wrote: Fri May 20, 2022 10:58 am
F4FEver wrote: Tue May 17, 2022 8:04 am
New York’s gun control laws, known collectively as the SAFE Act, are among the strictest in the nation. The gun used by the suspect, an automatic rifle known as an AR-15, is sold legally in New York.
BUT NOT strict enough to keep a documented potential killer from legally buying guns. NOT the gun but the person. Issues well documented, but...is the kid's RKBA trump the 10 victims right to 'life liberty and the pursuit of happiness'??
There are something like 77 million people who claim to own guns in the US. There were around 45,000 gun deaths last year in the US, mostly suicides. But even if all of them were homicides, and each person was killed by one other person, that would be 45,000 people whose "RBKA trump(s)... victims right to life liberty and pursuit of happiness." 77,000,000 - 45,000 = 76,955,000 gun owners who did NOT kill someone last year. Do the shit decisions of what is somewhere in the vicinity of 20,000 people nationwide trump the constitutional rights of nearly 77 million of their fellow citizens? Of course not.
Crow
Nice number crunching but a well designed and implemented RedFlagLaw may have prevented the murders I mentioned. And like a lot of laws, if you are innocent, those laws don't apply. If you are a screaming wacko on 'social media' who yell about killing people...'maybe' that 4473 should generate a closer look.
That's exactly my point. NY already has a red flag law. Nobody used it to prevent the Buffalo shooting. How would a more comprehensive law have changed that?
NOT more comprehensive but IMPLEMENTED.....why wasn't it used in NY?
These various manifestos, FB posts, published this and that are pretty easy to find after the fact..why not before? And NOT saying 'radical' FB posts disqualifies anybody from buying a gun..just a 'red flag' to take a closer look..

Re: Democratic New York governor proposes more firearm laws

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F4FEver wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 8:29 am if you are innocent, those laws don't apply. If you are a screaming wacko on 'social media' who yell about killing people...'maybe' that 4473 should generate a closer look.
How many of us right here do you suppose would make it onto the "closer look" list? That is the big red flag with red flag laws. They are, largely, an effort at thought crimes.

I don't disagree that a family member should be able to red flag another in their immediate family that has been showing signs of trouble. But there is a whole world of misuse and persecution in what you're describing.

Re: Democratic New York governor proposes more firearm laws

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featureless wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 10:09 am
F4FEver wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 8:29 am if you are innocent, those laws don't apply. If you are a screaming wacko on 'social media' who yell about killing people...'maybe' that 4473 should generate a closer look.
How many of us right here do you suppose would make it onto the "closer look" list? That is the big red flag with red flag laws. They are, largely, an effort at thought crimes.

I don't disagree that a family member should be able to red flag another in their immediate family that has been showing signs of trouble. But there is a whole world of misuse and persecution in what you're describing.
This. For red flag laws to be fair and I say that knowing that task is impossible, they would have to apply to all people living here and cannot solely focused on those who buy guns. They would need to focus on everyone and requires an infrastructure linking medical, the public, the judiciary and law enforcement. If we are only concerned about a potential problem individual at the point they are contemplating buying a gun then you’re missing treating them before they act. Only thing achieved at that point is that the individual will find an alternate means of obtaining what they need to carry out their intended act. Also how do we apply these laws to all people who make comments of any sort, even here as was pointed out. Red flags are a rabbit hole and a distraction and if properly done could temporarily help a small number of cases. To get at most would require a totalitarian surveillance state. I’d rather we take the complicated route and address the underlying causes of violence in all its variations instead of looking at a tool or a tool owner. There is always a way to obtain something illegal or restricted. Driving people to use a black market isn’t a productive use of our resources, it applies to guns and abortion services. The two are identical in that neither should be restricted except under extremely narrow conditions.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Democratic New York governor proposes more firearm laws

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sikacz wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 9:50 am There are huge problems with red flag laws, among them “if we add just this one more criteria lives would have been saved”. It’s a rabbit hole and it doesn’t look at the real issue, the why of violence.
Yup, it's a lot like our drug laws that haven't reduced crime or the number of people dying from drug overdoses. Politicians of both parties don't want to admit that the current system hasn't worked.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Democratic New York governor proposes more firearm laws

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sikacz wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 9:50 am There are huge problems with red flag laws, among them “if we add just this one more criteria lives would have been saved”. It’s a rabbit hole and it doesn’t look at the real issue, the why of violence.
But, IMHO, it's a decent first step. I mean, a guy writes a book about killing people in tattoo parlors..he legally buys a gun then kills the people in the book. A young kid, obviously wants to kill black people, on social media, legally buys a gun and kills 10 black people....

Don't have any answers but these post mass murder investigations..that reveal all sorts of stuff about the shooters...depressing.

Re: Democratic New York governor proposes more firearm laws

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F4FEver wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 8:31 am
sikacz wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 9:50 am There are huge problems with red flag laws, among them “if we add just this one more criteria lives would have been saved”. It’s a rabbit hole and it doesn’t look at the real issue, the why of violence.
But, IMHO, it's a decent first step. I mean, a guy writes a book about killing people in tattoo parlors..he legally buys a gun then kills the people in the book. A young kid, obviously wants to kill black people, on social media, legally buys a gun and kills 10 black people....

Don't have any answers but these post mass murder investigations..that reveal all sorts of stuff about the shooters...depressing.
More worrying to me than what it reveals about the shooter is what it reveals about our society and legal system.

As a People, we seem totally incapable of actually doing what is need to address root causes.
To be vintage it must be older than me!
Stories coming to you from Deep South Texas!
The next gun I buy will be the next to last gun I ever buy. PROMISE!

Re: Democratic New York governor proposes more firearm laws

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sig230 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 9:42 am
F4FEver wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 8:31 am
sikacz wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 9:50 am There are huge problems with red flag laws, among them “if we add just this one more criteria lives would have been saved”. It’s a rabbit hole and it doesn’t look at the real issue, the why of violence.
But, IMHO, it's a decent first step. I mean, a guy writes a book about killing people in tattoo parlors..he legally buys a gun then kills the people in the book. A young kid, obviously wants to kill black people, on social media, legally buys a gun and kills 10 black people....

Don't have any answers but these post mass murder investigations..that reveal all sorts of stuff about the shooters...depressing.
More worrying to me than what it reveals about the shooter is what it reveals about our society and legal system.

As a People, we seem totally incapable of actually doing what is need to address root causes.
Can’t say I disagree with your last sentence. It seems all too true unfortunately.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Democratic New York governor proposes more firearm laws

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sig230 wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 9:42 am
F4FEver wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 8:31 am
sikacz wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 9:50 am There are huge problems with red flag laws, among them “if we add just this one more criteria lives would have been saved”. It’s a rabbit hole and it doesn’t look at the real issue, the why of violence.
But, IMHO, it's a decent first step. I mean, a guy writes a book about killing people in tattoo parlors..he legally buys a gun then kills the people in the book. A young kid, obviously wants to kill black people, on social media, legally buys a gun and kills 10 black people....

Don't have any answers but these post mass murder investigations..that reveal all sorts of stuff about the shooters...depressing.
More worrying to me than what it reveals about the shooter is what it reveals about our society and legal system.

As a People, we seem totally incapable of actually doing what is need to address root causes.
Agree 100%, worse now than ever. No doubt about it but I don't think it's any surprise that gun ownership, including HUGE numbers of new gun owners and the incidence of gun violence are both at all time highs. NO I don't think gun/tool bans do anything but...I got no answers but 'seems' like a lot of guns in the hands of people who 'maybe' shouldn't own one, or many.

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