Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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sikacz wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:05 pmgoing to move with them or is it not possible to take, Arizona was it?
One is a Norinco, so that's excluded because it's Chinese. But in any event the State Department prohibits the import of "military-style" firearms. The exporter says that right now instead of researching the lineage of each one, they just count certain features: flash hider, pistol grip, detachable magazine, folding stock. You know, the usual things that make nice guns go bad. Even the Mini-14 I used to own might not be allowed because its mag is detachable. I'm waiting for confirmation on that one.

Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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CanuckAmok wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:20 pm
sikacz wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:05 pmgoing to move with them or is it not possible to take, Arizona was it?
One is a Norinco, so that's excluded because it's Chinese. But in any event the State Department prohibits the import of "military-style" firearms. The exporter says that right now instead of researching the lineage of each one, they just count certain features: flash hider, pistol grip, detachable magazine, folding stock. You know, the usual things that make nice guns go bad. Even the Mini-14 I used to own might not be allowed because its mag is detachable. I'm waiting for confirmation on that one.
What’s the legality in moving them in parts? I thought those import regulations applied to companies importing for sale? I would have thought an exception would exist for personal property.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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sikacz wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:44 pm...
What’s the legality in moving them in parts? I thought those import regulations applied to companies importing for sale? I would have thought an exception would exist for personal property.
Short answer: might be not worth the expense.

I'm waiting on that. But the Norinco is 100% not allowed, in whole or in parts. The other is an Anderson lower with a 7.5" barrel. I'd have to buy a new barrel to keep it from being NFA, and it would cost me USD$300 to export it. Short answer: not worth it. Not when I can build an entire new/buy a used AR in AZ for under $500.

Really the only reason I would export them is out of principle/spite. I don't want them destroyed as part of some misguided agenda. Also, the "buyback" (if there even is one) is with my own money!

I'd like to bring my ATRS Sporter in, because it would be a curiosity. Plus I built it with premium parts to keep it under 7lbs with optic and 18.5" barrel. I have about $2500 into it and it's one of a kind. But again, it basically only exists as a way to get around registration (It's an AR with a proprietary upper/lower). Now that it's prohib it's kind of worthless except for the value of the parts.

(note: regional hockey team t-shirt. We get it, guy, you're in Canada!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gr-8K05Np8

Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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CanuckAmok wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 4:20 pm
sikacz wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:44 pm...
What’s the legality in moving them in parts? I thought those import regulations applied to companies importing for sale? I would have thought an exception would exist for personal property.
Short answer: might be not worth the expense.

I'm waiting on that. But the Norinco is 100% not allowed, in whole or in parts. The other is an Anderson lower with a 7.5" barrel. I'd have to buy a new barrel to keep it from being NFA, and it would cost me USD$300 to export it. Short answer: not worth it. Not when I can build an entire new/buy a used AR in AZ for under $500.

Really the only reason I would export them is out of principle/spite. I don't want them destroyed as part of some misguided agenda. Also, the "buyback" (if there even is one) is with my own money!

I'd like to bring my ATRS Sporter in, because it would be a curiosity. Plus I built it with premium parts to keep it under 7lbs with optic and 18.5" barrel. I have about $2500 into it and it's one of a kind. But again, it basically only exists as a way to get around registration (It's an AR with a proprietary upper/lower). Now that it's prohib it's kind of worthless except for the value of the parts.

(note: regional hockey team t-shirt. We get it, guy, you're in Canada!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gr-8K05Np8
That’s tough. I’ve heard hunters occasionally misplace guns in the woods. Hunt much...
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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CanuckAmok wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:03 pm Oh, and I personally have two (registered) ARs. If the ban survives, I'll lose them. I can't even export them to friends in the US because of some US State Department rule.

But I'm still not easily surrendering them. I'll just ignore the multiple letters ordering me to deliver them to some collection point. If they want them they'll have to come and get them here, where they'll find each one set in a five gallon bucket of cement. Because that's the kind of guy I am. Petty. :)
Will they need to be "complete"? Here in CA-lifornia what is technically registered is the stripped lower receiver. If CA wants to confiscate Registered Assault Weapons from me that's all they will get. I'll keep the parts kit, thank you very much. :evil:

Encased in cement is a nice idea but I'm sure in this state they'd refuse it.

Ooooooooh. But SET in cement, with the serial # side showing.... that's an interesting possibility.... :thumbup:

Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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lurker wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:02 pm i have an 80% lower set aside for whatever eventuality. still new in wrap, just hangs there on the pegboard behind the drill press. might see if i can find a template, for educational purposes, y'know. if LGC sold them i'd buy one or two just to have. come and take them.
Watch out, there are dems that are currently pushing a bill to make those illegal.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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BKinzey wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:33 pm...

Will they need to be "complete"?...
They need to be whatever they were registered as. Each restricted firearm gets its own FRC, (firearm registration certificate). It's a wallet-sized card that includes owner's name, manufacturer, serial number, calibre, and in the case of modular rifles, barrel length. You have to keep it with the firearm.

Here's how it works: If you buy a complete AR you register it as a complete rifle, including calibre and barrel length.

If you buy a lower you register it as just a lower.

If you build (or strip) an AR you have 30 days to notify the RCMP you have done so, and they issue an updated FRC. Most owners who buy stripped lowers just build them and never register them as complete. Say you want to switch between 5.56 and .22LR on a regular basis, you don't want to re-register it every time, right? If they ever get challenged (which I've never even heard of happening), they just need to say they did it <30 days before. There's really no way to prove they didn't.

But the May 1 prohibition order forbids changing the configuration. Not in principle, but because no new FRCs will be issued for anything newly-prohibited. So you can't legally strip a complete AR and surrender just the lower (and like a complete idiot, I re-registered my Anderson lower to a complete rifle. See what you get for being law-abiding?!)

Also... the order also moved complete uppers into the prohib category (even though they aren't serialized). They aren't "prohibited firearms", they are "prohibited devices", like switchblades or 30rd mags. So if you surrender just a lower when your registration says its a complete firearm, they're going to want to know where the upper is. And technically possessing a complete upper after the amnesty ends will be a criminal act, same as owning a prohibited weapon. But incomplete uppers are not prohibited. Individual parts are not (yet) prohibited. I don't want to be the guy to test this in court, but it's arguable if you don't have the flash hider or dust cover attached, it's not complete.

That said, it suddenly occurs to me you could theoretically surrender just a lower and say you had stripped it <30 days before May 1 2020, and sold the upper not knowing it would become a prohibited device. It would be difficult to prove otherwise. But I wouldn't risk it.

The layers of stupid are endless. These appeals have to work. We're royally screwed if they don't.

I hope I'm not boring you folks with so much detail. Take it as "cautionary example". This is what your antigun legislators what. They're taking notes.

And as an aside, here's a video that outlines the devastating blow this has been to firearm manufacturers and retailers here. Tens of thousands of jobs. Millions in suddenly useless inventory. Small and medium businesses going out of business - and all during a pandemic which has resulted in the highest unemployment rates since the 1930s. A 1.8 billion dollar/yr hunting/shooting industry basically destroyed overnight. The outright disdain for guns and contempt for gun owners and sellers by this government is appalling.

The government made all kinds of noise about how retailers won't be stuck with inventory they can't sell, because they'll be able to return it to the US. They apparently didn't talk to the State Department about that, because, no, they can't return most items. It's a violation of ITAR.

And no, it's not Red Green hosting the video. I thought it was, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vYKfgx ... Ah3xRCN2m1

Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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wings wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 8:59 pm There are reasons we're celebrating today. :) I love the Commonwealth countries, but your governments can go bite one.
oh yeah they sure can. One thing about this order I forgot to mention is that it includes language that basically says "hey, we want to be fair about this. Those of you with newly-prohibited firearms can just replace them with new ones that aren't prohibited... but we'll be keeping an eye on whatever becomes popular so we can prohibit those, too". It's the only legal way they can intimidate anyone into not spending more money on more guns. I know I've stopped spending, just in case. Instead I donated that gun/ammo money to the legal challenges.

Irony: I sold three guns during the panic-buy right before the ban. I assumed they would be banned and I didn't want to be stuck with six prohibs. I sold my three least favourite non-restricted ones. Two (Tavor T21 and Kodiak WK180K - which is a Canadian-made all-metal revamp of the AR-180) aren't prohibited. One of the ones I sold and the three I kept are all prohib now. Motherf.....

Further irony: the order was ostensibly to ban "military style" guns "designed specifically to hunt people". Guess what they didn't prohibit... the SKS, which is probably the only semi-auto available here which was designed strictly for military use and actually used on a battlefield. There are millions here - some of which were certainly used in armed conflict to "hunt humans" - and they aren't even "restricted". It's not beyond the realm of possibility that Trudeau is aware of the SKS' popularity among aboriginal hunters, and he is famously terrified of upsetting aboriginal groups (despite screwing them financially every chance he gets).

But pre-ban the SKS was like $200 for a nice Russian one still in factory cosmoline with a bonus crate of surplus ammo. Now they're $500 for a beat-up mismatched Chinese one - if you can find one.

My government can eat my butt.

Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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wings wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:45 pm Mmm ... the SKS is on my list of things I want to try. I blame Marlene. My range officer has one. Can't find one to save your life on the local market.

Trudeau has other ways to fuck over indigenous peoples. Ask him about Alberta tar.
I enjoyed my SKS but it's one of the rifles I sold since I simply hadn't used it for over a decade.
To be vintage it must be older than me!
Stories coming to you from Deep South Texas!
The next gun I buy will be the next to last gun I ever buy. PROMISE!

Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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sig230 wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:39 am I enjoyed my SKS but it's one of the rifles I sold since I simply hadn't used it for over a decade.
I've had a couple over the years (none right now). Almost 9lbs unloaded, and impractically lengthy for walking around in the bush. Kind of a PITA to reload unless you have stripper clips (or pinned tapco mags). Not gonna lie, if you're used to modern "black" guns you'll tire of the SKS pretty quickly.

The only reason I regret selling my last one was it was a real Russian one (not Yugo or Chinese) and appeared to have never been fired when I got it. It was in showroom condition, still smeared in cosmo. judging by the quality of the wood stock I assumed it was a ceremonial rifle. It was really pretty.

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Lawsuits pile up in legal battle against Liberal government's "unconstitutional" firearms ban
OTTAWA — Legal challenges against the Liberal government’s firearms ban are beginning to pile up, with five separate lawsuits now challenging the constitutionality of a sweeping prohibition that infuriated gun owners and retailers.

The five challenges, filed in federal court, claim that the government under Prime Minister Justin Trudeau contravened the Firearms Act when it immediately outlawed more than 1,500 firearms through regulatory decree rather than a legislative process. The Liberal government enforced the ban on May 1 through an order in council.

Lawyers representing the applicants say the five lawsuits could potentially be consolidated into a single constitutional challenge, which would amount to one of the largest legal cases involving firearms in recent memory, involving lobby groups, gun sellers and individual owners. Provincial leaders, including Alberta Premier Jason Kenney, are also considering joining the legal battle against Ottawa.

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Bill C-21, to amend this ban to also ban Airsoft devices that look frightening and impose more restrictions, is still in play.
https://parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/43-2/ ... st-reading
Criminal Code Amendments
Deeming certain firearms to be prohibited devices
Clause 1 of the Bill would deem unregulated firearms that exactly resemble regulated firearms to be “prohibited devices” for the purposes of sections 99-101, 103-107 and 117.03 of the Criminal Code. All of these sections of the Criminal Code except section 117.03 (seizure of firearms on failure to produce authorization of lawful possession) are firearms offences that target conduct in relation to prohibited devices. Each of these offences carry the potential for imprisonment upon conviction, including mandatory terms of imprisonment for the weapons trafficking and smuggling offences under ss. 99, 100 and 103. As the effect of the deeming provision would expand the scope of criminal liability for certain firearms offences – some of which include mandatory minimum penalties – it engages the right to liberty under section 7 and the right not to be subjected to any cruel and unusual treatment or punishment under section 12 of the Charter.
New offence of altering a cartridge magazine
Clause 2 of the Bill would create a new offence for altering a cartridge magazine to exceed its lawful capacity. A person who does not have a lawful excuse for committing this offence could be found guilty of either: (1) an indictable offence with a maximum penalty of five years imprisonment, or (2) a summary conviction offence with a maximum penalty of $5,000 and/or imprisonment of two years less a day.
Emergency prohibition orders and emergency limitations on access orders
The Bill would establish a regime to allow anyone to apply to a court for an emergency prohibition order or an emergency limitations on access order against another individual for public safety reasons. An emergency prohibition order would temporarily prevent an individual from possessing firearms and other weapons (as specified in the order) where there are reasonable grounds to believe it is not in the interests of safety for the individual to possess them. An emergency limitations on access order would impose specific terms and conditions on an individual’s possession and use of firearms and other weapons (as specified in the order) in specific circumstances. This type of order may be made where there are reasonable grounds to believe that an individual lives or associates with a person who is prohibited from possessing any firearm, ammunition or weapon, and where that person would or might have access to such weapons possessed by the individual against whom the order would be made. If granted, both types of emergency orders would take immediate effect upon the day on which the judge makes the order and last for up to a maximum period of 30 days.
The bill's status was updated last month.

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Not surprising, Trudeau was reelected in September and heads a minority government supported by two left wing parties that aren't firearms friendly. If the Conservatives had won they promised to study all the federal firearms laws with an aim of abolishing some.

This is the result of the Nova Scotia shootings that killed 22 people in 2020. The shooter wore an RCMP uniform and drove a vehicle that looked like an RCMP one. The RCMP was blamed for not alerting the public sooner.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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K9s wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 12:20 pm Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said the ban includes more than 1,500 makes and models of firearms. There will be a two-year amnesty period for current owners to comply with the prohibition, he said, and legislation will be drafted in the coming months to provide “fair compensation” to them.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/th ... story.html
This is a developing story and will be updated.
Except in the US, nobody(as in the Feds) know who has what, in terms of firearms. PLUS many, many guns have changed hands legally that required no background check, no 'LGS' book recording, etc..

Unless I'm mistaken, the 4473 doesn't mention any specific gun, just gives permission to purchase 'something'...

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To me "military-grade" means made to very elaborate, precise, unique non-standard specifications, such that instead of being able to use a .29¢ Home Depot bolt, you need a $69.57 custom machined bolt (that happens to be identical to the Home Depot bolt). Therefore, there are very few if any new commercially available firearms that are military-grade. Lots of mil-surp, however.

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