Re: We see the warning signs. How do we uphold the republic?

26
sig230 wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:38 pm It is far easier to make sure that government does not work than to make government work.

And the former is the goal and path that is being successfully followed.

Control the voting and vote counting at the local levels.

Ration essential services such as USPS.

Sow distrust in news reporting.

Plant seeds of discontent.

Control the courts.

Beat the drium loudly.
Yeah, a good list. It is easier to tear down than it is to build up. Putin has the same one, and he's quite interested in destabilizing our little republic here. The good guys have a list, too. I'm optimistic. But the last time I beat my drium loudly, I ran out of small pistol primers. Be careful out there.

CDFingers
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Lord, until the sun goes down, 'til it goes down

Re: We see the warning signs. How do we uphold the republic?

27
Wow - honestly didn't expect much by way of response.

Complacency is one of the warning signs. Expecting others to fix it, one of the warning signs. People don't listen to warnings. Every disaster movie ever. Lots of comfortable people stood by and let fascism rise in the 1930s. I don't see the distinctions between Mussolini, Hitler or Hirohito as useful here. They were individuals.

The danger comes from the national and cultural infrastructure that allowed them to take power, tolerated their offenses, and followed their commands. We crossed that Rubicon. There aren't enough Republicans willing to hold their nose and vote Dem until the fascists are gone. If there were, 2016 would not have happened, and 2020 wouldn't have been close. We can't even get the left united against Donny. People don't listen to warnings.

If warnings aren't enough, we need plans. If we don't have plans, we need tactics, strategies, logistics. We're not even there yet. We need ideas. Mass demonstrations have shown their strengths and weaknesses over the past few years. They'll be out in the streets too. With long guns. And police support. Outlasting the opposition through a general strike would require prepping on a large scale. They'll stockpile ammo, we'll stockpile TP, because they don't wash their hands anyway.

If we can hold Congress, we'll obviously be in better shape, but the odds aren't good. And they plan to cheat.

Re: We see the warning signs. How do we uphold the republic?

29
FrontSight wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:39 pm
highdesert wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:49 am ...The economy hasn't crashed though inflation has started and a recession could be around the corner.
So t here's a scenario they could put in play.

Don't vote for the next rise in debt limit and let the economy crash. That sets up chaos for all those other things to happen. Fortunately I think only Trump, Bobert, and MTG are crazy enough to do that; and they're not in positions to do that.

Still, most Americans are not oppressed, not hungry, and not looking for any change. That's the biggest thing we have going for us. The sane people are quite happy to keep the system that is supporting us.

We were closer during the Great Depression, it just needed a major demagogue like Hitler or Mussolini to counter FDR. FDRs New Deal programs got people working and with all the government borrowing Republicans were happy. There isn't the economic or political instability right now to drive a revolution.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: We see the warning signs. How do we uphold the republic?

30
At this point all one can do to fight the republican states that are changing the voting rules is to maybe fight them with federal laws. Other than that nothing besides vote them out of office. The mid terms are going to be a shit show. I believe that most people are sick of this and dems, independents will turn out in high numbers. Got to hit the streets.
Civil war is another thing. The radical right militants are well armed experienced fighters and organized, infiltrated all sorts of law enforcement and military. I would suggest stock up - survivalist mode (which everyone should have already done), lay back and run the resistance fighter mode. But hopefully the National Guard will be on the side of constitutional law.
Redneck Liberal This Is The Way

Re: We see the warning signs. How do we uphold the republic?

31
highdesert wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:47 am
FrontSight wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:39 pm
highdesert wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:49 am ...The economy hasn't crashed though inflation has started and a recession could be around the corner.
So t here's a scenario they could put in play.

Don't vote for the next rise in debt limit and let the economy crash. That sets up chaos for all those other things to happen. Fortunately I think only Trump, Bobert, and MTG are crazy enough to do that; and they're not in positions to do that.

Still, most Americans are not oppressed, not hungry, and not looking for any change. That's the biggest thing we have going for us. The sane people are quite happy to keep the system that is supporting us.

We were closer during the Great Depression, it just needed a major demagogue like Hitler or Mussolini to counter FDR. FDRs New Deal programs got people working and with all the government borrowing Republicans were happy. There isn't the economic or political instability right now to drive a revolution.
We had the demagogue, by the name of Huey P. Long, Governor of Louisiana. But he was Assassinated in the state capital of Louisiana in 1935.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: We see the warning signs. How do we uphold the republic?

32
TrueTexan wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:32 pm
highdesert wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:47 am
FrontSight wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:39 pm
highdesert wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:49 am ...The economy hasn't crashed though inflation has started and a recession could be around the corner.
So t here's a scenario they could put in play.

Don't vote for the next rise in debt limit and let the economy crash. That sets up chaos for all those other things to happen. Fortunately I think only Trump, Bobert, and MTG are crazy enough to do that; and they're not in positions to do that.

Still, most Americans are not oppressed, not hungry, and not looking for any change. That's the biggest thing we have going for us. The sane people are quite happy to keep the system that is supporting us.

We were closer during the Great Depression, it just needed a major demagogue like Hitler or Mussolini to counter FDR. FDRs New Deal programs got people working and with all the government borrowing Republicans were happy. There isn't the economic or political instability right now to drive a revolution.
We had the demagogue, by the name of Huey P. Long, Governor of Louisiana. But he was Assassinated in the state capital of Louisiana in 1935.
Yes, the Kingfish in Louisiana, the KKK in Southern and Northern states, anti-Communist groups, Christian preachers, the German-American Bund and other Nazis and fascist groups. Plenty of them saw Germany's powerful industrial machine as the answer to the Depression in the US.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: We see the warning signs. How do we uphold the republic?

33
We also had some Wal Street bankers trying to get Retired Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler to organize the Veterans into an army to overthrow FDRs administration. He went to the FBI and named names and the coup attempt fell apart.
In 1933, he became involved in a controversy known as the Business Plot, when he told a congressional committee that a group of wealthy industrialists were planning a military coup to overthrow President Franklin D. Roosevelt, with Butler selected to lead a march of veterans to become dictator, similar to fascist regimes at that time. The individuals involved all denied the existence of a plot, and the media ridiculed the allegations, but a final report by a special House of Representatives Committee confirmed some of Butler's testimony.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

Interesting that one of the Bankers was a Prescott Bush who was the father of George H. W, Bush.
George Bush's grandfather, the late US senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany.

The Guardian has obtained confirmation from newly discovered files in the US National Archives that a firm of which Prescott Bush was a director was involved with the financial architects of Nazism.

His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz and to a hum of pre-election controversy.

The evidence has also prompted one former US Nazi war crimes prosecutor to argue that the late senator's action should have been grounds for prosecution for giving aid and comfort to the enemy.

The debate over Prescott Bush's behaviour has been bubbling under the surface for some time. There has been a steady internet chatter about the "Bush/Nazi" connection, much of it inaccurate and unfair. But the new documents, many of which were only declassified last year, show that even after America had entered the war and when there was already significant information about the Nazis' plans and policies, he worked for and profited from companies closely involved with the very German businesses that financed Hitler's rise to power. It has also been suggested that the money he made from these dealings helped to establish the Bush family fortune and set up its political dynasty.

Remarkably, little of Bush's dealings with Germany has received public scrutiny, partly because of the secret status of the documentation involving him. But now the multibillion dollar legal action for damages by two Holocaust survivors against the Bush family, and the imminent publication of three books on the subject are threatening to make Prescott Bush's business history an uncomfortable issue for his grandson, George W, as he seeks re-election.

While there is no suggestion that Prescott Bush was sympathetic to the Nazi cause, the documents reveal that the firm he worked for, Brown Brothers Harriman (BBH), acted as a US base for the German industrialist, Fritz Thyssen, who helped finance Hitler in the 1930s before falling out with him at the end of the decade. The Guardian has seen evidence that shows Bush was the director of the New York-based Union Banking Corporation (UBC) that represented Thyssen's US interests and he continued to work for the bank after America entered the war.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/ ... ndworldwar

The Repugs never learn.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: We see the warning signs. How do we uphold the republic?

36
tonguengroover wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 12:31 pm At this point all one can do to fight the republican states that are changing the voting rules is to maybe fight them with federal laws. Other than that nothing besides vote them out of office. The mid terms are going to be a shit show. I believe that most people are sick of this and dems, independents will turn out in high numbers. Got to hit the streets.
Civil war is another thing. The radical right militants are well armed experienced fighters and organized, infiltrated all sorts of law enforcement and military. I would suggest stock up - survivalist mode (which everyone should have already done), lay back and run the resistance fighter mode. But hopefully the National Guard will be on the side of constitutional law.
Gotta agree. Doubt anything will be of a huge right wing, white supremacist force but smaller, 'let's go shoot liberals' might happen. Stay vigilant, stay armed. Protect you and yours from these traitors.

Re: We see the warning signs. How do we uphold the republic?

37
sig230 wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:34 pm Don't forget Billy Sunday. It is the Charismatic Christian Fascist that we need to worry about.
Just like Jack the Ripper. Just like Mojo Hand.
Just like Billy Sunday in a shotgun ragtime band...
Just like New York City, just like Jericho
Pace the halls and climb the walls and get out when they blow

Grateful Dead, "Ramble on Rose."

CDFingers
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Test me, test me, test me, test me
Why don't you arrest me? Throw me in to the jail house
Lord, until the sun goes down, 'til it goes down

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