Mexico sues US firearm manufacturers over alleged complicity in arms trafficking

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https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap ... 45.1.0.pdf

Mexico sues US gun manufacturers over arms trafficking toll
The unusual lawsuit was filed in U.S. federal court in Boston. Among those being sued are some of the biggest names in guns, including: Smith & Wesson Brands, Inc.; Barrett Firearms Manufacturing, Inc.; Beretta U.S.A. Corp.; Colt’s Manufacturing Company LLC, and Glock Inc. Another defendant is Interstate Arms, a Boston-area wholesaler that sells guns from all but one of the named manufacturers to dealers around the U.S.
The Mexican government “brings this action to put an end to the massive damage that the Defendants cause by actively facilitating the unlawful trafficking of their guns to drug cartels and other criminals in Mexico,” the lawsuit said.
“The merits of the case are strongly in our favor and then we have to get around this immunity statute which we think we’re going to win," he said. "That statute just simply doesn’t apply. It only applies when you’re in the United States.”
ETA filing.

Re: Mexico sues US firearm manufacturers over alleged complicity in arms trafficking

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NSSF RESPONDS TO MEXICO’S CIVIL LAWSUIT AGAINST U.S. FIREARM MANUFACTURERS
NEWTOWN, Conn. — NSSF®, the firearm industry trade association, rejects Mexico’s allegations that U.S. firearm manufacturers participated in negligent business practices. All firearms sold at retail within the United States are sold in accordance with federal and state laws, with an FBI background check and forms completed. Allegations of wholesale cross-border gun trafficking are patently and demonstrably false.

“These allegations are baseless. The Mexican government is responsible for the rampant crime and corruption within their own borders,” said Lawrence G. Keane, NSSF Senior Vice President and General Counsel. “Mexico’s criminal activity is a direct result of the illicit drug trade, human trafficking and organized crime cartels that plague Mexico’s citizens. It is these cartels that criminally misuse firearms illegally imported into Mexico or stolen from the Mexican military and law enforcement. Rather than seeking to scapegoat law-abiding American businesses, Mexican authorities must focus their efforts on bringing the cartels to justice. The Mexican government, which receives considerable aid from U.S. taxpayers, is solely responsible for enforcing its laws – including the country’s strict gun control laws – within their own borders.

“The American people through their elected officials decide the laws governing the lawful commerce in firearms in our country,” Keane added. “This lawsuit filed by an American gun control group representing Mexico is an affront to U.S. sovereignty and a threat to the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding Americans to keep and bear arms. A right denied to the Mexican people who are unable to defend themselves from the cartels.”

Re: Mexico sues US firearm manufacturers over alleged complicity in arms trafficking

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Allegations in a lawsuit are not proof, they'll need rock solid evidence. From DM's link.
As some cities started winning, gun manufacturers went to Congress and got an immunity statute for the manufacturers [PLCAA]. Shadowen said he believes that immunity doesn’t apply when the injury occurs outside the United States.

“The merits of the case are strongly in our favor and then we have to get around this immunity statute which we think we’re going to win," he said. "That statute just simply doesn’t apply. It only applies when you’re in the United States.”
To get US courts to buy that legal theory this could end up in SCOTUS years from now.

No doubt the gun manufacturers will pursue the "drugs and guns" argument, that DougB1946 mentioned.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Mexico sues US firearm manufacturers over alleged complicity in arms trafficking

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tonguengroover wrote: Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:18 pmI know you can go to prison just having one bullet in your possession.
That is the law in MA as well.
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Re: Mexico sues US firearm manufacturers over alleged complicity in arms trafficking

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CDFingers wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 10:13 am MX has only one gun store and it has a permeable border. Huge demand for guns. I don't think a law suit will win because the gun makers make products legal in our own country, then those guns get smuggled. Not our problem.

CDFingers

Obtaining a firearm legally in Mexico is a prime example of gun control, it works for the law abiding but not for criminals.
The only gun shop in all of Mexico is behind a fortress-like wall on a heavily guarded military base.

To enter the Directorate of Arms and Munitions Sales, customers must undergo months of background checks — six documents are required — and then be frisked by uniformed soldiers.

The army-run store on the outskirts of Mexico City embodies the country’s cautious approach to firearms, and a visit here illustrates the dramatically different ways two neighboring countries view guns, legally and culturally.

Like the 2nd Amendment in the United States, Mexico’s Constitution guarantees the right to bear arms, but it also stipulates that federal law “will determine the cases, conditions, requirements and places” of gun ownership. For many Mexicans, even those who love guns, the thought of an unfettered right to owning one is perplexing.
Mexican law allows citizen to have one handgun for personal protection and up to nine rifles, as long as they can prove they are members of shooting or hunting clubs.
There is only one gun store in Mexico, located in Mexico City and run by the Mexican military.
By contrast, would-be gun owners in Mexico must offer a birth certificate and proof that they are employed, and have no criminal record. The atmosphere at the directorate is more sterile than at a U.S. gun store or pawnshop. There are no moose heads on the wall and no promotional specials. Guns stamped with the army’s logo are kept in locked cases and customers aren’t given the chance to heft a rifle to their shoulder to see how it feels.

Buyers spend hours shuffling between different counters to get their paperwork processed, waiting for long stretches under fluorescent lights in uncomfortable chairs. It feels a bit like the Department of Motor Vehicles, until one notices the no-nonsense army colonel running things and the machine-gun-toting soldiers patrolling the aisles.
A separate permit that is difficult to obtain is required to carry the guns in public.

Hugo Gallegos Sanchez, 32, a police officer in Mexico City, decided to purchase a handgun at the store for personal use because he was concerned about rising crime.

“You need protection,” Gallegos said.
He spent months waiting for his paperwork to be approved, but said he was happy to wait. Proper screening for gun owners is important, said Gallegos, who said he also supports Mexico’s ban on heavy assault weapons.

“A civilian shouldn’t be able to have the same power as the military,” he said.
https://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-mex ... story.html
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Mexico sues US firearm manufacturers over alleged complicity in arms trafficking

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Indeed, MX might be the perfect example of “common sense gun control” laws with no ability to enforce them. Average citizens go without the protection of personal firearms while criminals ride around armed and shoot people with impunity.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Mexico sues US firearm manufacturers over alleged complicity in arms trafficking

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OSD 129: The lawsuit accusing gun makers of complying with the law
In OSD 128, we wrote about how state governments and gun control groups are using lawsuits negligence and product marketing to make an end run around the PLCAA. This past week added some fuel to that fire.
Ok, “speculation from a Secret Service agent 36 years ago” isn’t the freshest argument, but hey, let’s keep going. The rest of this section of the suit accuses Century Arms of abiding by 922(r) rules, AR makers of building legal ARs, and generally blows the lid off of gun makers’ nefarious tactic of … complying with the law.
That’s it. Defendants make their guns out of materials which are not — looks over the top of reading glasses — supernaturally impervious to all tools, therefore defendants are assisting drug cartels.
sbɐɯ ʎʇıɔɐdɐɔ pɹɐpuɐʇs ɟo ןןnɟ ǝɟɐs
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Re: Mexico sues US firearm manufacturers over alleged complicity in arms trafficking

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Bisbee wrote: Thu Aug 05, 2021 5:03 pm Indeed, MX might be the perfect example of “common sense gun control” laws with no ability to enforce them. Average citizens go without the protection of personal firearms while criminals ride around armed and shoot people with impunity.
Well said Bisbee.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Mexico sues US firearm manufacturers over alleged complicity in arms trafficking

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The other question I have's this. How many guns are imported into Mexico from its southern border? The US Government has been sending arms into the central and South American countries for many decades. Our government says it is for their police and army to control the drug cartels. Well the Drug cartels and the corrupt officials can repurpose those guns for a sum of money very quickly.

One of the professors in my wife's division is from Mexico. Till recently he still own property in Monterey, Mexico. He said it is too dangerous to even drive in Mexico due to the Drug Cartels and gangs. His son is a doctor in Mexico City and when they wants to visit he flies to McAllen. The professor and his wife are US citizens and so are their children. They are also considered Mexican citizens by the Mexican Government.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Mexico sues US firearm manufacturers over alleged complicity in arms trafficking

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Gun sales at gunshows by vendors have background checks. If someone does an off premise sale, there wouldn’t be numbers on how many. It’s pure guess work. I’ve not seen one gunshow where a vendor or table holder didn’t have to do a background check. I also never overheard someone say, hey I’ll sell you this out back with no background check. Doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen, it’s just not the norm for gunshows no matter how biden and bloomie want to say it is.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Mexico sues US firearm manufacturers over alleged complicity in arms trafficking

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sikacz wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:02 am Gun sales at gunshows by vendors have background checks. If someone does an off premise sale, there wouldn’t be numbers on how many. It’s pure guess work. I’ve not seen one gunshow where a vendor or table holder didn’t have to do a background check. I also never overheard someone say, hey I’ll sell you this out back with no background check. Doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen, it’s just not the norm for gunshows no matter how biden and bloomie want to say it is.
By vendors, yup..OK, not at a gun show..via an ad on Armslist, Texas or Az..

There was a video by a gent made in Colorado, showing a guy asking a GUN DEALER for a 'parking lot buy' of a AR..then he recorded it. So, it does happen. Certainly 'not the norm', but it's not a stretch to say it happens.

These guns in Mexico come from somewhere..not just from the one store in Mexico City.

Re: Mexico sues US firearm manufacturers over alleged complicity in arms trafficking

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F4FEver wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:44 am
sikacz wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:02 am Gun sales at gunshows by vendors have background checks. If someone does an off premise sale, there wouldn’t be numbers on how many. It’s pure guess work. I’ve not seen one gunshow where a vendor or table holder didn’t have to do a background check. I also never overheard someone say, hey I’ll sell you this out back with no background check. Doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen, it’s just not the norm for gunshows no matter how biden and bloomie want to say it is.
By vendors, yup..OK, not at a gun show..via an ad on Armslist, Texas or Az..

There was a video by a gent made in Colorado, showing a guy asking a GUN DEALER for a 'parking lot buy' of a AR..then he recorded it. So, it does happen. Certainly 'not the norm', but it's not a stretch to say it happens.

These guns in Mexico come from somewhere..not just from the one store in Mexico City.
I’m sure there are internet sales contacts being made in various ways. The “gunshow loophole” though is pure anti propaganda. Private sales are legal at least in Texas. I doubt a significant number of these illegal guns going to Mexico are through legal sales. I’m guessing the majority is from other criminal organizations on this side of the border with guns illegally obtained. No amount of laws and regulations will fix that, nor will a lawsuit fix it.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Mexico sues US firearm manufacturers over alleged complicity in arms trafficking

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F4FEver wrote: Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:44 am
sikacz wrote: Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:02 am Gun sales at gunshows by vendors have background checks. If someone does an off premise sale, there wouldn’t be numbers on how many. It’s pure guess work. I’ve not seen one gunshow where a vendor or table holder didn’t have to do a background check. I also never overheard someone say, hey I’ll sell you this out back with no background check. Doesn’t mean it couldn’t happen, it’s just not the norm for gunshows no matter how biden and bloomie want to say it is.
By vendors, yup..OK, not at a gun show..via an ad on Armslist, Texas or Az..

There was a video by a gent made in Colorado, showing a guy asking a GUN DEALER for a 'parking lot buy' of a AR..then he recorded it. So, it does happen. Certainly 'not the norm', but it's not a stretch to say it happens.

These guns in Mexico come from somewhere..not just from the one store in Mexico City.
I remember a certain alt-right organization posting videos of planned parenthood "selling baby parts" when pretending to go in there and being a pimp.

Just because there's a "video" doesn't mean that it's true, or that it lacks "creative editing".

Re: Mexico sues US firearm manufacturers over alleged complicity in arms trafficking

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Just think of how many guns were supplied to Central American Counties by the CIA during Iran/Contra and later by the DEA for fighting the drug lords. How many wound up in the hands of the same drug cartels and were sent north into Mexico. As my wife's co-worker a Professor told her it is to dangerous for a foreigner of a person of any means to drive outside of a major city. The Cartels and gangs control the countryside and roads. He also said the federal police and army is corrupt and supplies many of the guns to the cartels and gangs.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

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