Re: Colion Noir, John Rosenthal on Newsweek's The Debate podcast

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Heated? I'm over half way through and is there anything Rosenthal says that isn't misleading or just incorrect? Pretty much a Gish Gallop of errors.

His "shock" that someone would eat the meat of something shot with a "223". :roll:

Stating there are "unlicensed dealers" at gun shows that are selling firearms. As if that was legal to be in the business of selling firearms and not be licensed.

So his overall cherry picking, ignoring the questions asked, deflection, etc, is this cognitive dissonance or is he just lying? :wtf:

ETA:
So I finished it, yeah, at this point I'd say the guy is lying. His stances were laughable. He believes you should be trained and licensed like what is done with driving but doesn't want that state license to be good in all states. I'm sure he knows he is playing fast and loose with his "facts" he states.
Last edited by BKinzey on Mon Aug 02, 2021 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Re: Colion Noir, John Rosenthal on Newsweek's The Debate podcast

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Rosenthal is a cherished MA firearm prohibitionist. Overall, I found this audio hard to endure, but I appreciate that Noir remained reasonably focused and calm.

The hosts tried to steer the discussion toward mass shootings. Noir prescribed dealing with it in the moment, i.e. carry. Rosenthal would prefer bans and MA-style restrictive licensing for ownership. He even praised the fact that MA issuing authorities can deny licenses to own firearms based on arbitrary criteria. Neither mentioned root cause mitigation with regard to shootings in general, which is unfortunate.

Finding common ground with someone like Rosenthal would be exceedingly difficult. He wasted no time bleating classic firearm prohibitionist talking points--"military-style," "weapons of war," "assault weapons," "hunting humans," the ever-present "you don't need..." argument, dubious statistics, bizarre fixation on intermediate carbines, very inaccurate picture of why MA does not have a high rate of death via the use of firearms, deliberate misidentification of the "well-regulated militia" as the National Guard, the very common and inaccurate view that the 2A is about hunting, the false claim that the AR platform cannot be used for hunting, and the magazine capacity talking point so beloved by disarmament enthusiasts.

Rosenthal even parroted Biden's recent argument that the people don't need semi-automatic carbines because the government can use heavy weapons, aircraft, and nuclear weapons to keep the population in line.

Admittedly, I got a laugh from Noir's calm "I don't have a problem with that" when an exasperated Rosenthal could not tolerate the idea of people owning tanks.

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Re: Colion Noir, John Rosenthal on Newsweek's The Debate podcast

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I didn't finish it, have to go to bed. Like that the two hosts tried to focus the debate. Rosenthal is a real estate developer. I'd like to see an objective analysis of what impact gun laws have had on crime in MA, Rosenthal takes a lot of credit. And he throws around a lot of numbers and stats that need to be fact checked, don't know where he got them and there are too many sketchy sources of gun stats. We're a country of about 330 million people - all gun deaths are tragic but the numbers the anti-gunners throw out make it sound like we should have zero gun deaths. That is not realistic, they're living in fantasyland.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Colion Noir, John Rosenthal on Newsweek's The Debate podcast

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SubRosa wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:37 am I just worked a little Google-fu to find the following:

In the USA,

24,000 deaths in 2020 due to gun violence.
250,000 deaths in 2020 due to medical errors.


An order of magnitude, done by professionals.

Hmmm.

S u b R o s a
You may want to check your numbers but they aren't TOO far off.
Based CDC reports, the average year there are about 39,000-40,000 gun deaths.
24,000 are suicides which should not be considered as "gun violence" but rather as suicides, since there are also about 23,000 non-gun suicides.

Leaving about 16,000 that includes gun violence and accidental shootings.
Those 16K include gun violence and accidental shootings.

Of those, on average, 400 are from long guns, but shotguns are a separate category (I don't remember the number).

The kicker is, of course, that AR types (and I believe AK types) are responsible for AT MOST 100 gun deaths per year--less than 1% of non-suicide gun deaths!
"The upper class: keeps all of the money, pays none of the taxes. The middle class: pays all of the taxes, does all of the work. The poor are there...just to scare the shit out of the middle class."--George Carlin

Re: Colion Noir, John Rosenthal on Newsweek's The Debate podcast

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Outside the US, stats really change.
Gun-related deaths are not uncommon. In 2016 alone, more than 250,000 people died as a result of firearms worldwide. About 64% of gun deaths were the results of homicide, about 27% of suicide, and 9% for accidental injuries caused by firearms.

Nearly nine out of 10 people killed by gun violence were men, and the highest number of deaths were people between 20 and 24 years old.

Out of the 250,000 gun-related deaths in 2016, 50.5% occurred in Brazil, the United States, Mexico, Venezuela, Colombia, and Guatemala.

Gun violence in Latin America is exceptionally high. The Inter-American Development Bank released a report highlighting four critical factors in Latin American cities that contribute to increased gun violence: economic deprivation, residential instability, family disruption, absence from school, the population’s age structure, and alcohol consumption. These factors can be applied to other regions around the world that experience significant gun violence.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country

Intentional homicides per 100,000
https://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indica ... 5/rankings
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Colion Noir, John Rosenthal on Newsweek's The Debate podcast

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lurker wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:54 am
highdesert wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:50 am four critical factors in Latin American cities that contribute to increased gun violence: economic deprivation, residential instability, family disruption, absence from school, the population’s age structure, and alcohol consumption.
looks like an argument for root cause mitigation to me.
Exactly
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Colion Noir, John Rosenthal on Newsweek's The Debate podcast

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lurker wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:54 am
highdesert wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:50 am four critical factors in Latin American cities that contribute to increased gun violence: economic deprivation, residential instability, family disruption, absence from school, the population’s age structure, and alcohol consumption.
looks like an argument for root cause mitigation to me.
Pfft. I can't picture a sheriff posing with a table of confiscated root cause mitigation. /s

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