Western liberal militia?

[lurker]

there are things out there far, far worse than spammers and trolls. y'all handle it however you like. be safe.

[Bisbee]

What I see transpiring in 2-3 months time is not pretty.

Hi. I'm another suspect new member here. My best guess is that Liberals need to get ready, or else they are going to get caught with their pants down. I really, really hope I'm wrong.

For those that feel that readying for a civil war with firearms training is the equivalent of preparedness, I’d like to point out the obvious fly in the ointment of your plans. Are you expecting the other side to wear grey uniforms and fly ‘ol Dixie?

If not, just how are you going to identify who to shoot? How can you be sure the ones firing at you ain’t just someone thinking you were shooting at them first?

Just like any number of demonstration we’ve seen where guns are drawn and bullets start flying, how is anyone supposed to know they aren’t shooting a friendly or truly taking out a bad guy? It would be a klustrfck pure and simple and that is no way to fight or win a civil war. The best you could hope for is a stalemate until a strongman breaks the impasse. In short, if it gets that bad where you are defending yourself with a gun I believe we’ve already lost.

Democracy depends on a working system of rule of law with participants that agree to work together even when they don’t agree on anything other than the value of human life.

Right now is the time to figure out what you are willing to fight (and die) for and start working to defend those systems and values. Before society degrades to the point where rule of law loses its meaning.

Preparing for armed conflict against white nationalists by forming a militia is a fools errand.

[sikacz]

What I see transpiring in 2-3 months time is not pretty.

Hi. I'm another suspect new member here. My best guess is that Liberals need to get ready, or else they are going to get caught with their pants down. I really, really hope I'm wrong.

For those that feel that readying for a civil war with firearms training is the equivalent of preparedness, I’d like to point out the obvious fly in the ointment of your plans. Are you expecting the other side to wear grey uniforms and fly ‘ol Dixie?

If not, just how are you going to identify who to shoot? How can you be sure the ones firing at you ain’t just someone thinking you were shooting at them first?

Just like any number of demonstration we’ve seen where guns are drawn and bullets start flying, how is anyone supposed to know they aren’t shooting a friendly or truly taking out a bad guy? It would be a klustrfck pure and simple and that is no way to fight or win a civil war. The best you could hope for is a stalemate until a strongman breaks the impasse. In short, if it gets that bad where you are defending yourself with a gun I believe we’ve already lost.

Democracy depends on a working system of rule of law with participants that agree to work together even when they don’t agree on anything other than the value of human life.

Right now is the time to figure out what you are willing to fight (and die) for and start working to defend those values. Before society degrades to the point where rule of law loses its value.
Preparing for armed conflict against white nationalists by forming a militia is a fools errand.

I keep saying, get to know your neighbors in all manner. Bisbee and others have pointed out, if we ever have such a disaster, there will be no uniforms. Or likely, they will dress exactly like you. It would be small groups and likely no overall coordination with any main group. The only likely organized groups would be breakaway military groups from our armed forces if everything really went to pot. And if that happened you’d likely see foreign militaries take interest in our troubles. None of that sounds appealing nor are we there yet. For whatever happens November to January, it’s too late to do anything but make sure your neighborhoods are ready if natural disasters or miscellaneous local events occur.

[Denvertaco07]

All those NRA conservative types always talk about the 2nd half of 2A, particularly the language about the right to bear arms will not be infringed.

But to me, the most important words are "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state"

I am worried that conservative miltia groups are preparing for action against our US Constitution should a crisis related to the election arise this fall.

My question is is there any liberal militia on the west coast somewhere that I can join and train with so that we can protect the sanctity of our US Constitution and the security of a free state in the United States of America?

My hope is that showing strength prevents chaos and violence against Americans and the freedoms and democracy that our Constitution protects.

Thank you

The right believes that they will prevail in a war, and there are some, like this guy:

https://www.tmz.com/videos/2020-10-01-1 ... s-4860230/

and Carlos Zappata in Shasta County (google him) who are so confident in their beliefs, that they are threatening to shed American blood if they don't get their way.

[Bisbee]

In the same way that adolescents watching enough Hollywood films will come to believe that cars can penetrate walls or any barrier, guns are have an endless supply of bullets that magically find bad guys’ heads, and girls meant to be saved will become badass sidekicks that follow closely in case there is a free moment for romance.

Writers Guild of America (WGA) should admit that Hollywood writers bear some responsibility for the phenomenon of Proud Bois. The writers should all be rounded up and sent to re-education “spas” in Arizona. For a “workshop”.

[CDFingers]

Rather than take off the masks and get violent, Mr. Zapata, it would be better for the hapless and stupid Republican Party to stop sitting on stimulus. Send your hapless Representative a post card dripping with your strong protections for your family. That's much better than threatening a city council meeting. Poor taste.

CDFingers

[Wino]

I don't give two shits for any militia - right or left wing. My feelings for them is same as I feel about open carry.

From my favorite book of fables: "When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me."

I quit playing cowboys and indians, cops and robbers and war games about 12/13 YO. Militias and OC are just extensions of a juvenile IMHO.

[YankeeTarheel]

I don't give two shits for any militia - right or left wing. My feelings for them is same as I feel about open carry.

From my favorite book of fables: "When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me."

I quit playing cowboys and indians, cops and robbers and war games about 12/13 YO. Militias and OC are just extensions of a juvenile IMHO.

Yup. This is how you look playing those games, and this is when it's age-appropriate:

[Bisbee]

Well put, Wino.

[SpaceRanger42]

Pertinent information-
https://www.law.georgetown.edu/icap/our ... ct-sheets/

[Outpost716]

I quit playing cowboys and indians, cops and robbers and war games about 12/13 YO. Militias and OC are just extensions of a juvenile IMHO.

↑
This.

There's an awful lot of cosplaying going on nowadays, especially from self-proclaimed, right-wing "militia" groups. And it's pretty damn clear that such groups have little to offer beyond bluster, agitation, -even violence in some cases- but, in the end, they want nothing more than to intimidate and make people afraid. The mere fact that someone is talking about liberal militia groups is indicative of the right's success in spreading that fear and uncertainty.

Many of these "militias" aren't even on the same page. Each have their own agenda. I mean, other than a bunch of khaki-wearing tiki enthusiasts, I haven't even seen anything resembling real, substantial organization. This isn't to say there aren't groups out there that aren't organized. It would be dangerously stupid (from a strategic perspective) to assume there aren't.

Paraphrasing TAOW, it's important to bear this in mind:

The art of war teaches us to rely not on the likelihood of your enemy not coming, but on your own readiness to receive your enemy; not on the chance of your enemy not attacking, but rather on the fact that you have made your position unassailable.

The very same thinking speaks to the reason people stage for home defense, have CCW, prep, get involved in a neighborhood watch, or form loosely-knit trusted networks. Your focus is on your own readiness, not what some unhinged fringe hate group is shouting about.

As others here (and elsewhere) have pointed out, it's best to focus on your readiness, know yourself, know who your neighbors are, who can or can't be trusted. As others have also pointed out, if right-wing militias want to post signs in their front lawn, fly their flags, or openly identify themselves as the domestic threats they are, fine by me. Let them self-identify. You'll either know who to avoid or you'll know where attacks (if they're to happen) will be coming from.

The probability of a second civil war is low, even now, with all the bs we've all put up with thus far. No, it isn't out of the realm of possibility. But, it would take something really drastic to raise the probability of such an event taking place.

It still doesn't hurt, in my opinion, to be prepared.

[Bisbee]

Being prepared, for Liberals, appear to be more on an individual basis. There is little benefit for most people to “defeat the enemy” and more benefit to just convince the bad guy(s) it is too costly to continue attacking their target by pulling a weapon in self defense.

The cosplay you refer to implies some group effort to secure some property or whatever. It implies and offensive effort and it is too optimistic. Funny you mention that term because it is indeed fantasy that militia-members are engaged in.

[Crow]

I really dislike these LARPing assholes with their open carry, their ill-fitting "tactical" gear, and their slavish devotion to the Dollar Menu Dictator. I also think this type of preening, fratty bravado actually puts "militia" types in more danger. John Lovell had a good point about this a while back... why wear "GunMag Warehouse" shirts, or put pro-gun stickers on your penile compensation truck, or carry a tac-pack covered in dumbass morale patches? Why take your AR to Starbucks? These actions just make you the most visible target, the one who's most likely to be attacked, or most likely to be blamed for an attack. Smart folks stay low-profile; they let their training and preparedness speak firmly when needed, and then only in assistance of others, not in provocation. I don't always agree with John Lovell, obviously, but here I think he is correct. These militia guys are mall ninja fascists looking for (and looking like) trouble. Fuck them and fuck their fuhrer.
Crow

[Bisbee]

Well, in truth, if you can see their compensatory behavior as indeed juvenile in nature, why not be the adult in the room and tell them to just go take a nap. Not literally. But embody the energy of the Kindergarten Teacher and just smile at the children.

I’m serious. Sooner or later someone is going to have to step up and be the adults in the room. They other side simply are not up for it. We have to take the initiative. And that requires us to grow in stature and confidence. We cannot remain at their level and trade barbs and insults.

Remember that divide and conquer is what the Corporate Overseers are doing all the time. Trump is their sock puppet in chief. MAGA’s and BLM protestors are being played against each other as pawns.

[Outpost716]

Being prepared, for Liberals, appear to be more on an individual basis. There is little benefit for most people to “defeat the enemy” and more benefit to just convince the bad guy(s) it is too costly to continue attacking their target by pulling a weapon in self defense.

Exactly. And I would hazard to guess that's because we aren't subject to group-think, at least not in that way. Sometimes, that can work against us because it's like herding cats.

The cosplay you refer to implies some group effort to secure some property or whatever. It implies and offensive effort and it is too optimistic. Funny you mention that term because it is indeed fantasy that militia-members are engaged in.

Maybe cosplay isn't exactly the right term, but we all know what we're getting at here: let's play dress-up to intimidate and scare the uninitiated. It's also like Crow put it: LARPers dressed tacti-cliché fashions, gathering in angry, frustrated packs, and 'oiling their guns' together. It's kind of in-group ego stroking.

I really dislike these LARPing assholes with their open carry, their ill-fitting "tactical" gear, and their slavish devotion to the Dollar Menu Dictator. I also think this type of preening, fratty bravado actually puts "militia" types in more danger. John Lovell had a good point about this a while back... why wear "GunMag Warehouse" shirts, or put pro-gun stickers on your penile compensation truck, or carry a tac-pack covered in dumbass morale patches? Why take your AR to Starbucks? These actions just make you the most visible target, the one who's most likely to be attacked, or most likely to be blamed for an attack. Smart folks stay low-profile; they let their training and preparedness speak firmly when needed, and then only in assistance of others, not in provocation. I don't always agree with John Lovell, obviously, but here I think he is correct. These militia guys are mall ninja fascists looking for (and looking like) trouble. Fuck them and fuck their fuhrer.
Crow

Agreed! Well said. Also, I'm stealing Dollar Menu Dictator. Brilliant!!

[SailDesign]

Maybe cosplay isn't exactly the right term, but we all know what we're getting at here: let's play dress-up to intimidate and scare the uninitiated. It's also like Crow put it: LARPers dressed tacti-cliché fashions, gathering in angry, frustrated packs, and 'oiling their guns' together. It's kind of in-group ego stroking.

The correct term is "Cosplaytriot"....

[Outpost716]

Maybe cosplay isn't exactly the right term, but we all know what we're getting at here: let's play dress-up to intimidate and scare the uninitiated. It's also like Crow put it: LARPers dressed tacti-cliché fashions, gathering in angry, frustrated packs, and 'oiling their guns' together. It's kind of in-group ego stroking.

The correct term is "Cosplaytriot"....

Wow, another term! I'm adopting that one, too. And that meme kinda hits the nail right on the freakin' head.

And while we're still on the subject of "militias", NPR's Consider This ran an interesting episode today entitled, The Michigan Kidnapping Plot And What's Fueling Right-Wing Extremism.

The FBI announced Thursday that it had thwarted a plan by far-right militia members to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, and charged six men in relation to the plot.

The plot began as talk on social media sites, with a group of men gathering on Facebook to share anti-government reaction to Whitmer's coronavirus restrictions and shutdowns.

Experts say the pandemic, protests, and the words of the president have combined to fuel a rise in right-wing extremism. Cynthia Miller-Idriss, a professor at American University who tracks right-wing extremism, spoke to NPR about how right-wing recruiters are taking advantage of President Trump's hesitancy to condemn white supremacy and militia groups.

And while these men have been referred to as members of a "militia," that term has also resurfaced a debate about whether groups like this should actually be referred to as domestic terrorist groups, says Kathleen Belew, an assistant professor of history at the University of Chicago who studies paramilitary and white power groups.

The really important part comes just after the 9-minute mark, when Asst. Professor Belew gives us a quick dive into the historical role of militias. TLDR (ICYMI, history class): militias became part of the States' National Guards, so, these modern day private "militias" are not only illegitimate, but illegal.

[SpaceRanger42]

As someone who LARPs I really wish people would stop referring to these tools as LARPers.

[rolandson]

LARP...?
Oh....yeah...these guys...

Good to know they still have jobs.

[Bisbee]

Yeah, not LARP.
Poseur.
It’s French.

[SpaceRanger42]

I am also fond of the phrase tacti-cliche, thank you to whomever coined that one. It sounds so much more haughty than tacti-cool. I annoyed who ever it is that curates the Liberal Gun Owners instagram account a few days ago by referring to all the tacti-cool gear in their photos. A bit of a dick move on my part but the whole militia conversation was still fresh in my brain.
Honestly, I don't agree with the justification they gave for their "base line" gear as I have been to plenty of classes and not needed to wear military load-bearing gear, trauma kits, drop leg holsters and multiple rifle mag pouches. If they want to train in para military gear fine, but don't blow smoke up my ass and try to tell me it's for any other reason than because they want to feel cool OR that just maybe they are trying to keep up with the right wingers who are hard at work on their militia training.

It's possible I should take a break from the internet for a few days I feel overly salty

[CDFingers]

It's an easy step from playing video games to LARPing. I think their grip on reality gets pretty slippery if they spend more time in front of the gaming screen than they do with real people. Easy, then, to vote for a game show host. Easy to buy tricked out guns and strut around looking funny.

Dunno 'bout those types.

CDFingers

[Buck13]

Yeah, not LARP.
Poseur.
It’s French.

I have a whole outfit for that! I don't ride my bike enough, so the jersey is pristine. Cap and socks get used IRL. The cap is my standard get-up at the shootin' range, and pretty much every other situation as well. Bike caps wear out pretty fast, so I've burned through several of these over the years.

Detail on the socks. It's on the bottom, so not much chance of anyone seeing it.

Available here:

http://elevengear.com

I have their Traffic Master and Coral Snake jerseys for commuting, too. Those get a bit more use. My Traffic Master is an older version with narrower stripes. The current model is just slightly more garish!

[Buck13]

I am also fond of the phrase tacti-cliche, thank you to whomever coined that one. It sounds so much more haughty than tacti-cool.

Both have their merits! I hadn't heard "tacti-cliche" before. I'll look forward to a chance to use it in conversation.

[Crow]

Cosplaytriot wins, IMHO.
I will admit I'm not above dressing up in my hunting camo and old GI webgear when playing airsoft with my kids, but if I'm out on the range it's jeans and a tshirt. No need for anything else, other than a TQ in the back pocket.
Crow