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featureless wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 11:04 am
YankeeTarheel wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:53 am I did point out that if cops who are trained fire dozens of rounds to barely hit one perp, how is a home-owner supposed to do it with only 5 rounds? And if ammo is super-expensive, how can you train to be accurate? That kind of got him.
There are several other issues here worth noting when having that particular conversation. Police are trained in firearms use (clearly, accuracy is suspect and more training would be a good idea). Police are also, generally, ready for a confrontation as they roll up on a scene rather than being woken from a deep sleep by the door crashing open. They also have a long arm at hand. They also have bullet proof doors. They also have body armor. They also have backup, both additional LEO and EMT. They have every advantage that a homeowner facing a break in does not. Why again do they need higher capacity magazines than the homeowner?

Places that have implemented assault weapon bans and magazine bans have experience compliance rates from 0-2ish percent. Do they really expect better from confiscation/buy back? Confiscation would be a messy business and LEO already has plenty to do.
Preachin' to the choir here! I agree and you just expanded on my point.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

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featureless wrote:Oh, I know you agree, YT. Just providing more ammunition to the talking point. :)
You got a permit for all them ammo clips?

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DMac wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:35 pm
featureless wrote:Oh, I know you agree, YT. Just providing more ammunition to the talking point. :)
You got a permit for all them ammo clips?
They're not clips, they're magazines!
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

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YT said:

They're not clips, they're magazines!
They ARE clips if you wear them in your hair.


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I decided to not post pictures of "stripper clips" - some of them had real strippers.
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The disdain and arrogance of the pro-confiscation people is just amazing. They argue that, if gun owners are so "law-abiding", they will gladly hand over their property. I guess, since these pundits and politicians are not the ones to go door-to-door, they think it would be no big deal. I suppose they will eventually want extra funding for police to do this job?

Does anyone talk about how much a mandatory buyback would actually cost? Do they assume we would all gladly turn in our firearms at $50 each? Add in the administrative and destruction costs, too.

Finally, they always seem to cite the same small countries when claiming this is no big deal. This is a big country. Gun grabbing is happening state by state, but it won't work in every state. Good luck trying this in the Deep South or Midwest. There would be pushback from elected Sheriffs and the local PDs, too.
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

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K9s wrote:The disdain and arrogance of the pro-confiscation people is just amazing. They argue that, if gun owners are so "law-abiding", they will gladly hand over their property. I guess, since these pundits and politicians are not the ones to go door-to-door, they think it would be no big deal. I suppose they will eventually want extra funding for police to do this job?

Does anyone talk about how much a mandatory buyback would actually cost? Do they assume we would all gladly turn in our firearms at $50 each? Add in the administrative and destruction costs, too.

Finally, they always seem to cite the same small countries when claiming this is no big deal. This is a big country. Gun grabbing is happening state by state, but it won't work in every state. Good luck trying this in the Deep South or Midwest. There would be pushback from elected Sheriffs and the local PDs, too.
The media is doing a good job of scaring people. I'm on Twitter, for better or for worse, and the sentiment is "SOMEONE DO SOMETHING". This is easy pickings for Democrats to bait for votes by talking gun confiscation.

I'm hoping the hysteria wears off after election

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K9s wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:32 pm Gun grabbing is happening state by state, but it won't work in every state. Good luck trying this in the Deep South or Midwest. There would be pushback from elected Sheriffs and the local PDs, too.
The compliance rate in California for registration from the latest assault weapon ban was something like 2.5%. In California where we apparently just beg for more gun control. "Freedom week" absolutely flooded the state with legal standard capacity magazines. California managed to deplete stock nationwide.

Much of California is nothing like the Bay Area or LA politically. I fully expect there would be some shooting in the counties inland from the coast if someone was stupid enough to do door to door confiscation. It's just a really bad idea, leaving aside the constitutional and financial issues.

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Hm...since it's the "gun" that would be confiscated or expropriated, would you REALLY need to relinquish anything more than the serialized lower receiver, and nothing else, since that's the "gun" under the law?
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

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max129 wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:43 pm
YT said:

They're not clips, they're magazines!
They ARE clips if you wear them in your hair.



iu.jpg


I decided to not post pictures of "stripper clips" - some of them had real strippers.
Somewhere there's a boy whose yarmulke won't stay on she's got enough for at least 2 fully minions!
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

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YankeeTarheel wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:59 pm Hm...since it's the "gun" that would be confiscated or expropriated, would you REALLY need to relinquish anything more than the serialized lower receiver, and nothing else, since that's the "gun" under the law?
Do you really think the confiscator will take the time for such a distinction? Or the law writer? Nope, nope and nope. When the time comes, you'll either comply and lose your firearms or you'll become a felon. Apparently, society has already determined that black gun owners are all latent mass murderers. What a fucked situation. :thumbsdown:

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featureless wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:23 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:59 pm Hm...since it's the "gun" that would be confiscated or expropriated, would you REALLY need to relinquish anything more than the serialized lower receiver, and nothing else, since that's the "gun" under the law?
Do you really think the confiscator will take the time for such a distinction? Or the law writer? Nope, nope and nope. When the time comes, you'll either comply and lose your firearms or you'll become a felon. Apparently, society has already determined that black gun owners are all latent mass murderers. What a fucked situation. :thumbsdown:
I think you missed my point. Assume you KNOW they are coming, strip your receiver, hand it over to them, demand a receipt. If the law is badly written that's all you have to turn over because that's the gun., except, maybe, magazines.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

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YT - I agree that technically all you would need to turn over is the serialized part, but I wouldn't want to be on the "list" of people who had done so.

As for me, all my new acquisitions will be wheel guns, lever guns or bolt action. I love shooting those more anyway.

I have half a dozen semi-automatics, but the only ones I would hate to give up are a Sig P238 (daily carry) and a Ruger 10/22. I can live without the rest, but I would have to use my j-frame for daily carry and I would need to buy a .22 LR Lever gun.
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YankeeTarheel wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:40 pm
featureless wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:23 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:59 pm Hm...since it's the "gun" that would be confiscated or expropriated, would you REALLY need to relinquish anything more than the serialized lower receiver, and nothing else, since that's the "gun" under the law?
Do you really think the confiscator will take the time for such a distinction? Or the law writer? Nope, nope and nope. When the time comes, you'll either comply and lose your firearms or you'll become a felon. Apparently, society has already determined that black gun owners are all latent mass murderers. What a fucked situation. :thumbsdown:
I think you missed my point. Assume you KNOW they are coming, strip your receiver, hand it over to them, demand a receipt. If the law is badly written that's all you have to turn over because that's the gun., except, maybe, magazines.
Well, then they nail you for all the parts with intent to assemble or some shit.

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This is a horrible conversation to have. Like discussing whether the law says just to take your thumb and fingers or your entire arm. I hope this is all just academic.
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

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Democratic debate 2019: Beto O’Rourke vows, ‘Hell, yes, we’re going to take your AR-15’.
“If it’s a weapon that was designed to kill people on a battlefield, if the high-impact, high-velocity round when it hits your body shreds everything inside of your body because it was designed to do that, so that you would bleed to death on a battlefield not be able to get up and kill one of our soldiers,” O’Rourke said. “When we see that being used against children… hell, yes, we’re going to take your AR-15, your AK-47.”

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DispositionMatrix wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:26 am Democratic debate 2019: Beto O’Rourke vows, ‘Hell, yes, we’re going to take your AR-15’.
“If it’s a weapon that was designed to kill people on a battlefield, if the high-impact, high-velocity round when it hits your body shreds everything inside of your body because it was designed to do that, so that you would bleed to death on a battlefield not be able to get up and kill one of our soldiers,” O’Rourke said. “When we see that being used against children… hell, yes, we’re going to take your AR-15, your AK-47.”
Stick a fork in him, he's done. At some point, if he's lucky, he'll realize he just screwed himself out of meaningful politics for life, with one sentence.

Time to direct our attention to Lizzie, Bernie or whoever. Tammy Duckworth ain't running so I'm voting the Low Expectations ticket and choosing the least orange candidate.
If liberals interpreted the Second Amendment the way they interpret the rest of the Bill of Rights, there would be law professors arguing that gun ownership is mandatory. - Mickey Kaus, The New Republic

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Yup. He's done....next!

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

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VodoundaVinci wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:02 am Yup. He's done....next!

VooDoo
I agree. Nothing as sad as a pol who doesn't know it's time to quit and move on.

I think it's down to Biden and Warren, and everyone else is a possible VP candidate. For that, I'm much more impressed with Warren. Biden is "safe" and "safe" Democratic candidates consistently lose. Personally, I think there are a few good VP possibilities there, but some better ones, like Stacey Abrams, are not in the race.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

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I might be the only one that thinks it's time to cut the field to 4 or 5 and get on to the "Meat and Potatoes" of each individuals idea for going forward on the critical stuff. So far it's all shouting and grandstanding and posturing trying to get attention.....organized chaos. It's making the Democrats look disorganized and fractured and that needs to stop as soon as possible and move on the the Main Course.

Get on with it.

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

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And he can kiss his chance of successfully running against John Cornyn goodbye. Texas isn't a blue state yet or even purple.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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I think the directness with which Beto is currently challenging the president’s racism is wonderful. I don’t worry at all that it will get my guns taken.
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Beto never had a chance in my book but he cemented it when he said would come and take our AR's and AK's. The ignorant bravado of such a statement suggests that he has no idea of how many liberal/progressive gun owners there are nor that the task of confiscation is a logistical impossibility. Never mind the likelihood that it would not be a bloodless undertaking.
"Better to die on your feet than to live on your knees" - Emiliano Zapata

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Made me chuckle this morning. Not in CA though.
Oh Beto.....jpg
“Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”
- Maya Angelou

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I am aware that I am not in the main stream on this for the forum. And I would do nothing to harm the rights of my fellow gun owners.

--- But ---

I believe there is a serious chance of weapons bans, magazine restrictions and ammo type bans in the next 5 years.

Why do I believe this?

1) I believe (and hope) that the electorate will lurch left in the next election

2) I believe the idiots doing mass shootings are creating an echo chamber that feeds the next round - and we cannot put that bad-boy-genie back in the damn bottle

3) I believe the trend for "business leaders" to push for gun control will have an impact that civilian input never had

4) I believe the Federal Government will do this nationwide, making it happen quickly and universally

As to their mechanisms: buyback, license them to death, confiscation, etc. I have no clue. I do suspect they will look for the lowest cost/highest impact model. Which means they are likely to use high dollar fees and fines instead of a full value buyback. My guess is that as soon as the fees go up a lot ($2,000 per semi-auto), then the market value of these will plummet and they will be able to do a low dollar buyback after the fact. (I give this combination scenario a high probability - it requires the least total funding - it passes the cost to 50 million gun owners.)

I do not believe any of this will have much impact on State level carry laws - so there is a scenario where small revolvers make a comeback.

The "corner cases" will be very interesting. Especially around ammunition. For example, they will have a difficult time with .223 ammo. They will have an impossible time with .308 ammo (way too many bolt action rifle applications). And how they deal with the cross-over rules and .22 LR will be a study in compromises.

If the mass shootings continue, this is going to happen. People will feel like it is emergency powers time.

IMO, there is only one thing that will stop this gun grab happening: if most/all of the attackers switch from guns to cars, gasoline and similar. And I doubt that will happen.

I will leave it for others to comment on the resistance and social unrest that may follow. I understand this is a serious hot button issue.
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