Starting to think about the next guns on my list. High priority is something I can hunt with. Rifles are illegal to hunt with in Ohio, so I need a shotgun. I'm at the entry phases of learning about them - LOTS to know and think about. So, I come to you all... here's what I know and what I need.
All I really want to hunt is deer and turkey. Unfortunately, I gather that this requires two different barrels on a shotgun, and some would recommend even two different gauge weapons (12 for deer, 20 for turkey).
I also know that I need a rifled barrel for the deer and a choke of some sort for the turkey (in a non-rifled barrel).
Last hitch is getting a scope - easiest with a cantilever barrel, but if I'm swapping out barrels, another option might be better (like this: http://bit.ly/g3FpkB). But, I hear scopes on those are not as accurate.
What I'd love to do is get this Remington 870 Express Combo (http://bit.ly/eKbLgX), deer barrel is good, but can I use the other barrel, with choke, for turkey?
What other factors and am I not considering?
Any help is great - thanks!
Andy
Re: Dual-purpose hunting shotgun
3I got (well, bought myself) the super mag version of that combo for Xmas for exactly the purposes you describe, maybe with a little goose hunting thrown in one day. In short, I love it. It's well made but not flashy and the trigger, at least on mine, is far better than expected.
My advice to you is forget about the scope right now and learn to hunt deer with the iron sights on the slug barrel. They are nice sights. If you decide you really want a scope after a few hunts or seasons it's really easy and relatively cheap to pick up a cantilever barrel or add the mount you linked to. I started hunting later in life and stared out with all my guns scoped but they have been being removed the last couple of seasons. I find the guns carry much better and the iron sights always hit where they are pointed, no matter how many times the gun is dragged in and out of the truck, into tree stands, etc.
If you hunt turkey with the smoothbore and decide it's too long to easily maneuver it's easy enough to change for a 21". The best Turkey hunter I know has used a 26' barrel black 870 12ga to hunt turkey for the last 18yrs. That's the great thing about an 870, there are a zillion parts for them and if you start with the basic item you can tweak it to be exactly what you want as you figure out what that is.
I could ramble on but suffice to say you've done your homework, its a great working mans gun to get started hunting with and worth every penny. Just buy it and hit the woods.
My advice to you is forget about the scope right now and learn to hunt deer with the iron sights on the slug barrel. They are nice sights. If you decide you really want a scope after a few hunts or seasons it's really easy and relatively cheap to pick up a cantilever barrel or add the mount you linked to. I started hunting later in life and stared out with all my guns scoped but they have been being removed the last couple of seasons. I find the guns carry much better and the iron sights always hit where they are pointed, no matter how many times the gun is dragged in and out of the truck, into tree stands, etc.
If you hunt turkey with the smoothbore and decide it's too long to easily maneuver it's easy enough to change for a 21". The best Turkey hunter I know has used a 26' barrel black 870 12ga to hunt turkey for the last 18yrs. That's the great thing about an 870, there are a zillion parts for them and if you start with the basic item you can tweak it to be exactly what you want as you figure out what that is.
I could ramble on but suffice to say you've done your homework, its a great working mans gun to get started hunting with and worth every penny. Just buy it and hit the woods.
'Sorry stupid people but there are some definite disadvantages to being stupid."
-John Cleese
-John Cleese
Re: Dual-purpose hunting shotgun
4If I could I would have a rifled 20ga for deer and a 12ga for Turkey.some would recommend even two different gauge weapons (12 for deer, 20 for turkey).
'Sorry stupid people but there are some definite disadvantages to being stupid."
-John Cleese
-John Cleese
Re: Dual-purpose hunting shotgun
6I know next to nothing about hunting with a shotgun. I shoot clays with it.....poorly.
Goose likes his Benelli Nova. But its $500 and extra barrels cost a ton.
I have the gun you are looking at and, for the price, I really like it. Of course, I am not good enough to know any better. But there are aftermarket parts galore. You can get a million different choke tubes, changing barrels is a snap and they can be had in any length, rifled or not, for a fairly low price.
In the same basic price range is the Mossberg 500 - and it has its admirers as well. In some ways its a Ford vs Chevy type of argument.
Here is an idea: Get the 870 with a 26" barrel and several different chokes tubes. Go to a sporting clay or trap or skeet range (or better yet all three) and get really good at hitting crap with it. Then, try out turkey hunting now that you have the confidence in hitting what you shoot. I would imagine that the hunt would be more rewarding if you actually get something - the clay practice will help that. (Caution: I don't know what length would be best for turkey - I imagine that a 26" might be a tad long in some close quarter situations. 26" is probably the minimum for skeet. So, I think that 26" is a good compromise, it will let you hit clays and turkeys but you might sometimes curse it if you are tangled up in close quarters.) On the other hand, if I were recommending *just* for skeet, I would probably suggest 28"
THEN... if you decide you want to hunt deer with your shotgun, go buy a rifled barrel in whatever length is best for that and give it a try.
I think doing it this will will:
1. Spread your money out
2. make sure you like it before you waste money on the extra barrel
3. give you the ability to practice with clays right away
4. with all those choke tubes, you can test them all out, pattern them, take them to shoot clays and learn about what to expect from different chokes BEFORE you get out in the field
5. make you proficient with your gun before you get in the field so you can concentrate on the hunt rather than on how to hit something.
This is a suggestion from someone who doesn't hunt but does shoot.... take it with a grain of salt. There is a chance that I have no idea what I am talking about.
Goose likes his Benelli Nova. But its $500 and extra barrels cost a ton.
I have the gun you are looking at and, for the price, I really like it. Of course, I am not good enough to know any better. But there are aftermarket parts galore. You can get a million different choke tubes, changing barrels is a snap and they can be had in any length, rifled or not, for a fairly low price.
In the same basic price range is the Mossberg 500 - and it has its admirers as well. In some ways its a Ford vs Chevy type of argument.
Here is an idea: Get the 870 with a 26" barrel and several different chokes tubes. Go to a sporting clay or trap or skeet range (or better yet all three) and get really good at hitting crap with it. Then, try out turkey hunting now that you have the confidence in hitting what you shoot. I would imagine that the hunt would be more rewarding if you actually get something - the clay practice will help that. (Caution: I don't know what length would be best for turkey - I imagine that a 26" might be a tad long in some close quarter situations. 26" is probably the minimum for skeet. So, I think that 26" is a good compromise, it will let you hit clays and turkeys but you might sometimes curse it if you are tangled up in close quarters.) On the other hand, if I were recommending *just* for skeet, I would probably suggest 28"
THEN... if you decide you want to hunt deer with your shotgun, go buy a rifled barrel in whatever length is best for that and give it a try.
I think doing it this will will:
1. Spread your money out
2. make sure you like it before you waste money on the extra barrel
3. give you the ability to practice with clays right away
4. with all those choke tubes, you can test them all out, pattern them, take them to shoot clays and learn about what to expect from different chokes BEFORE you get out in the field
5. make you proficient with your gun before you get in the field so you can concentrate on the hunt rather than on how to hit something.
This is a suggestion from someone who doesn't hunt but does shoot.... take it with a grain of salt. There is a chance that I have no idea what I am talking about.
"The waves which dash on the shore are, one by one, broken; but yet the ocean conquers nevertheless."
- Lord Byron
- Lord Byron
Re: Dual-purpose hunting shotgun
7Also, check out these threads for shotgun conversations that might be helpful:
http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/phpBB3 ... &hilit=870
http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/phpBB3 ... &hilit=870
http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/phpBB3 ... &hilit=870
http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/phpBB3 ... &hilit=870
"The waves which dash on the shore are, one by one, broken; but yet the ocean conquers nevertheless."
- Lord Byron
- Lord Byron
Re: Dual-purpose hunting shotgun
8Also, here is a decent primer on choke tubes:
http://www.choketubes.com/
And a nice table here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun#Pattern_and_choke
and these tables will help you understand shot sizes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun#Shot
http://www.choketubes.com/
And a nice table here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun#Pattern_and_choke
and these tables will help you understand shot sizes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun#Shot
"The waves which dash on the shore are, one by one, broken; but yet the ocean conquers nevertheless."
- Lord Byron
- Lord Byron
Re: Dual-purpose hunting shotgun
9Also, for clays and birds I would bet you don't need any sort of scope. Most bird hunters that I know dont use scopes, I don't know about for deer though. You definitely don't see them at trap/skeet/sporting clay ranges.
"The waves which dash on the shore are, one by one, broken; but yet the ocean conquers nevertheless."
- Lord Byron
- Lord Byron
Re: Dual-purpose hunting shotgun
10I am curious as to why someone has advised 20 gauge for turkey.
As I understand it, turkey hunters shoot for the head and neck at relatively long ranges. The larger number of shot pellets from a 12 gauge would definitely be an avantage, I would think.
I agree with Mark -- you can't go wrong with an 870 as a general purpose shotgun. There are innumerable variants available to you, and it should last several lifetimes. (My first firearm purchases were 870 Expresses in both 12 and 20 guage, the latter because it is easier for the smaller members of my family to shoot.)
As I understand it, turkey hunters shoot for the head and neck at relatively long ranges. The larger number of shot pellets from a 12 gauge would definitely be an avantage, I would think.
I agree with Mark -- you can't go wrong with an 870 as a general purpose shotgun. There are innumerable variants available to you, and it should last several lifetimes. (My first firearm purchases were 870 Expresses in both 12 and 20 guage, the latter because it is easier for the smaller members of my family to shoot.)
"To initiate a war of aggression...is the supreme international crime" - Nuremberg prosecutor Robert Jackson, 1946
Re: Dual-purpose hunting shotgun
11I'm curious why the slug barrel needs to be rifled? I think a scope works best when the target is so far away that its size is mostly obscured by the sights. Is muzzle loading allowed where you live there are a number of inlines or traditional black powder rifles that are very accurate for deer.
"Hillary Clinton is the finest, bravest, kindest, the most wonderful person I've ever known in my whole life" Raymond Shaw
Re: Dual-purpose hunting shotgun
12Wow - some great advice. Thanks to all, especially Mark for a great post and suggestion.
I'm not in the financial or spouse approval situation to think about buying a new gun right now, but it would be fun to get something to shoot clays with before the summer. I'll be looking at doing some kind of hunt next fall - probably start with turkey.
I'm not in the financial or spouse approval situation to think about buying a new gun right now, but it would be fun to get something to shoot clays with before the summer. I'll be looking at doing some kind of hunt next fall - probably start with turkey.
Re: Dual-purpose hunting shotgun
13eelj wrote:I'm curious why the slug barrel needs to be rifled? I think a scope works best when the target is so far away that its size is mostly obscured by the sights. Is muzzle loading allowed where you live there are a number of inlines or traditional black powder rifles that are very accurate for deer.
I have no idea but I have heard people say that before. I assumed it was to increase accuracy as it does in other rifled barrels? Would this not be the case? Since I don't hunt, I have never fired a slug. mason?
"The waves which dash on the shore are, one by one, broken; but yet the ocean conquers nevertheless."
- Lord Byron
- Lord Byron
Re: Dual-purpose hunting shotgun
14DirtyFH wrote:Wow - some great advice. Thanks to all, especially Mark for a great post and suggestion.
I'm not in the financial or spouse approval situation to think about buying a new gun right now, but it would be fun to get something to shoot clays with before the summer. I'll be looking at doing some kind of hunt next fall - probably start with turkey.
In that case I would probably just go with a 28" barrel 12 gauge. Its versatile. 26" if someone says that a shorter barrel would be better for turkey hunting. With a couple of good choke tubes you can do clays and turkeys with it.... and if a rifled barrel isn't needed for slugs, you are set there as well
"The waves which dash on the shore are, one by one, broken; but yet the ocean conquers nevertheless."
- Lord Byron
- Lord Byron
Re: Dual-purpose hunting shotgun
15They are so you can shoot outrageously expensive sabot slugs and make the ammo manufacturer's share holders wealthy. $18 for five.mark wrote:eelj wrote:I'm curious why the slug barrel needs to be rifled? I think a scope works best when the target is so far away that its size is mostly obscured by the sights. Is muzzle loading allowed where you live there are a number of inlines or traditional black powder rifles that are very accurate for deer.
I have no idea but I have heard people say that before. I assumed it was to increase accuracy as it does in other rifled barrels? Would this not be the case? Since I don't hunt, I have never fired a slug. mason?
With the rifled barrel and sabot slugs you get rifle like accuracy to at least 50 and generally out to about 100 yds. Some claim 150. I have little experience with and have not killed a deer with mine so far but it is very accurate at 50yds. It still kicks like a 12ga slug.
The 20" rifled barrel carries much better than a 26" in the woods. I want to find a cheaper alternative slug that will work well, but hunting season is over and I will likely begin researching it in mid summer. I'll report back when I do.
Right now I'm building an AR-15.
'Sorry stupid people but there are some definite disadvantages to being stupid."
-John Cleese
-John Cleese
Re: Dual-purpose hunting shotgun
16My first deer gun when I was a kid was a JC Higgins 16 gauge shotgun that was a bolt action and I found that out to 75 yards would shoot minute of deer with a smooth bore and the gold bead front sight. I think an 870 with two barrels would be a good gun but I dont think a rifled bore is necessary, 12 gauge of course.masonalannz wrote:They are so you can shoot outrageously expensive sabot slugs and make the ammo manufacturer's share holders wealthy. $18 for five.mark wrote:eelj wrote:I'm curious why the slug barrel needs to be rifled? I think a scope works best when the target is so far away that its size is mostly obscured by the sights. Is muzzle loading allowed where you live there are a number of inlines or traditional black powder rifles that are very accurate for deer.
I have no idea but I have heard people say that before. I assumed it was to increase accuracy as it does in other rifled barrels? Would this not be the case? Since I don't hunt, I have never fired a slug. mason?
With the rifled barrel and sabot slugs you get rifle like accuracy to at least 50 and generally out to about 100 yds. Some claim 150. I have little experience with and have not killed a deer with mine so far but it is very accurate at 50yds. It still kicks like a 12ga slug.
The 20" rifled barrel carries much better than a 26" in the woods. I want to find a cheaper alternative slug that will work well, but hunting season is over and I will likely begin researching it in mid summer. I'll report back when I do.
Right now I'm building an AR-15.
"Hillary Clinton is the finest, bravest, kindest, the most wonderful person I've ever known in my whole life" Raymond Shaw
Re: Dual-purpose hunting shotgun
17heh. Bird shot in one tube, Deer slugs/buckshot in the other.
If I hear "crony" capitalism one more time I'm going to be ill. Capitalism is capitalism, dog eats dog and one dog ends up on top, and he defends that place with all the power he's accumulated.
Re: Dual-purpose hunting shotgun
18Hardly a hunting weapon. And it needs scaled down so as not to break the stylesheet.
Re: Dual-purpose hunting shotgun
19I'd hunt with it. well Mostly when I do finally get mine i'll be shooting skeet with it.
If I hear "crony" capitalism one more time I'm going to be ill. Capitalism is capitalism, dog eats dog and one dog ends up on top, and he defends that place with all the power he's accumulated.
Re: Dual-purpose hunting shotgun
20Apparently you ain't a hunter or skeet shooter.gendoikari87 wrote:I'd hunt with it. well Mostly when I do finally get mine i'll be shooting skeet with it.
'Sorry stupid people but there are some definite disadvantages to being stupid."
-John Cleese
-John Cleese
Re: Dual-purpose hunting shotgun
21not yet, Had a chance to shoot skeet a few weeks back, more fun than I think i've ever had. Why do you think it wouldn't be good for skeet?
If I hear "crony" capitalism one more time I'm going to be ill. Capitalism is capitalism, dog eats dog and one dog ends up on top, and he defends that place with all the power he's accumulated.