My partner (previously staunchly anti gun) has recently brought up considering a gun for home defense.
I am thinking it may be best to get a shotgun something easy enough for her (a strong yet small 150 lbs lady) to feel confident under stress.
I have suggested that we start with a gun and some training and not keeping ammunition in the house if she is not ready for that part.
We're hoping to stay "cheap" but not afraid of spending the right money for the right solution. We already have monitor home alarm.
Thoughts on shotguns (or suggestions that are not shotguns)?
Re: Looking to get HD shotgun, thoughts?
2for a smaller person, i'd suggest a 20ga pump. someone with some actual knowledge will be along soon.
i'm retired. what's your excuse?
Re: Looking to get HD shotgun, thoughts?
3I don't like shotguns for HD for a variety if reasons. Why a scattergun? What's your defense situation? What is your firearm experience?
Re: Looking to get HD shotgun, thoughts?
4I used to think a 20ga kicked less than a 12ga. Experience has shown that not to be true so much.
I agree a shotgun is probably the best HD gun and the only choice if you get just one gun. 20ga would be fine. An inexpensive one is the H&R Pardner pump. It can be found for $180 in “youth” model with a shorter stock for women while being perfectly shootable for men. The sheer weight of these guns absorb some of the felt recoil when fired.
And as Senior alluded to in the post above, training is paramount to overcoming any fear or anxiety about your own gun in a HD situation. It is a tool, only as good as the person wielding it to keep an intruder at bay.
I agree a shotgun is probably the best HD gun and the only choice if you get just one gun. 20ga would be fine. An inexpensive one is the H&R Pardner pump. It can be found for $180 in “youth” model with a shorter stock for women while being perfectly shootable for men. The sheer weight of these guns absorb some of the felt recoil when fired.
And as Senior alluded to in the post above, training is paramount to overcoming any fear or anxiety about your own gun in a HD situation. It is a tool, only as good as the person wielding it to keep an intruder at bay.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi
Re: Looking to get HD shotgun, thoughts?
5+1. Shotguns are fussy and fairly harsh to operate.senorgrand wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:31 pm I don't like shotguns for HD for a variety if reasons. Why a scattergun?
If you don't like the "assault weapon" label associated with an AR, a Mini 14 is very easy to operate, low recoil, has 30 round magazines, and is more traditional looking. Works every bit as well as an AR.
Re: Looking to get HD shotgun, thoughts?
6But you have to actually AIM a rifle.
Not so much a shotgun. Just point it in the general direction... And all intruders know that too.
Not so much a shotgun. Just point it in the general direction... And all intruders know that too.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi
Re: Looking to get HD shotgun, thoughts?
7You've been listening to Biden again, haven't you?Bisbee wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:38 pm But you have to actually AIM a rifle.
Not so much a shotgun. Just point it in the general direction... And all intruders know that too.
Re: Looking to get HD shotgun, thoughts?
9"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi
Re: Looking to get HD shotgun, thoughts?
10Now, I considered a shotgun for HD too...until I realized there were no ranges where I could practice. I'd go carbine if you have a real spread and handgun for anything else (like a condo or bungalow).
Re: Looking to get HD shotgun, thoughts?
11If the better half is new to guns, picking something with a 22 conversion kit (say glock or ar) would be a good choice. Also, get the largest handgun that fits your better half's hand. Too many people get mouse guns for home defense. Mouse guns are for carrying a lot and shooting a little. You want something you can shoot a lot.
Re: Looking to get HD shotgun, thoughts?
12I believe she was wanting a shot gun over a hand gun, maybe can talk her in to following the information from the LGC women panel and get some training / class work for her here in /near Austin. TO get comfortable and get some options.
I appreciate the quick and informative responses. Thanks!
I appreciate the quick and informative responses. Thanks!
Texan Liberal interested in guns
Re: Looking to get HD shotgun, thoughts?
13The Ladies and Guns channel over on the LGC Discord is quite active.
LGC Texas - Vice President
Re: Looking to get HD shotgun, thoughts?
14I'm going to chime in on the training front. Whether it's handgun, carbine, shotgun, broadsword - training makes a bigger difference than the choice of weapon. For home defense against anyone except multiple intruders with guns, my preference is a long blade. You can get a machete for $20, and it's short enough to swing in close quarters, safe to stash bedside, and has no possibility of overpenetration. Also, quiet. Even then, training is a good idea.
Sounds like you already know guns, and enjoy shooting. I want to emphasize that point: to shoot well, you need to train. There is no better motivation to train than having fun shooting. Get her shooting skeet if she thinks she'd like shotgun. A .410 can be perfectly adequate for home defense, and less intimidating to shoot. A burglar isn't gonna measure bore diameter in the dark. If I remember right, 000 buck is equivalent to 9mm, except you can get 3-4 balls in a single shot. In a long gun, it should have the penetration you need.
Beyond scatterguns, a semiauto .22 rifle can be cheap, forgiving, quiet - for a gun - and extremely accurate, with a couple dozen rounds in a magazine.
Sounds like you already know guns, and enjoy shooting. I want to emphasize that point: to shoot well, you need to train. There is no better motivation to train than having fun shooting. Get her shooting skeet if she thinks she'd like shotgun. A .410 can be perfectly adequate for home defense, and less intimidating to shoot. A burglar isn't gonna measure bore diameter in the dark. If I remember right, 000 buck is equivalent to 9mm, except you can get 3-4 balls in a single shot. In a long gun, it should have the penetration you need.
Beyond scatterguns, a semiauto .22 rifle can be cheap, forgiving, quiet - for a gun - and extremely accurate, with a couple dozen rounds in a magazine.
Re: Looking to get HD shotgun, thoughts?
15I know the sound of a shotgun being racked in the dark. It is enough to make me shit my pants.
I'm going to broach the subject of training with her. I think she'll ideally want a female instructor in the ATX area, if anyone knows anyone
I'm going to broach the subject of training with her. I think she'll ideally want a female instructor in the ATX area, if anyone knows anyone
Texan Liberal interested in guns
Re: Looking to get HD shotgun, thoughts?
16Wings, hacking somebody up with a machete is likely to be even more traumatizing than filling them full o' lead, said the guy who has witnessed machete hackings.
'Sorry stupid people but there are some definite disadvantages to being stupid."
-John Cleese
-John Cleese
Re: Looking to get HD shotgun, thoughts?
17A shotgun is not my first preference for HD.
1. It is a 2-handed gun. Anytime you need to use one hand to open doors, flip light switches, or stay on the phone with 911, you’re ineffective with the gun.
2. Unless it’s a semiauto, it can be finicky to operate. It’s very easy to short stroke the pump and not load the next round.
3. It is a long gun. Unless you have huge doors, it’s impossible to keep the gun pointed at chest-level at all times. Most doors are narrower than the length of most shotguns.
4. Capacity is limited. When things go bump in the night, you’ll engage with whatever is in or on your gun. Most shotguns hold 5 shots (not safe to chamber until ready). Even in restricted states a semiauto pistol can have 10+1 rounds (safe to chamber at all times).
About the myths:
- An intruder bold enough to break into homes is usually armed. The sound of a racking shotgun gives him a direction to shoot at.
- In short distances a shotgun is essentially a rifle, the shot is not dispersed wide enough to make aiming unnecessary.
1. It is a 2-handed gun. Anytime you need to use one hand to open doors, flip light switches, or stay on the phone with 911, you’re ineffective with the gun.
2. Unless it’s a semiauto, it can be finicky to operate. It’s very easy to short stroke the pump and not load the next round.
3. It is a long gun. Unless you have huge doors, it’s impossible to keep the gun pointed at chest-level at all times. Most doors are narrower than the length of most shotguns.
4. Capacity is limited. When things go bump in the night, you’ll engage with whatever is in or on your gun. Most shotguns hold 5 shots (not safe to chamber until ready). Even in restricted states a semiauto pistol can have 10+1 rounds (safe to chamber at all times).
About the myths:
- An intruder bold enough to break into homes is usually armed. The sound of a racking shotgun gives him a direction to shoot at.
- In short distances a shotgun is essentially a rifle, the shot is not dispersed wide enough to make aiming unnecessary.
Glad that federal government is boring again.
Looking to get HD shotgun, thoughts?
18This^
My shotguns, a.410 bore and a 12 gauge, both have lights and lasers and are my go-to guns for issues out by the stable or bird coop. But for noises in the house, I get my XdM with 19 rounds of 9 mm Gold Dots and a light.
I heartily endorse Stiff’s last comment. At distances in most homes, shotgun spread is surprisingly small. If your HD gun is a shotgun, be sure to pattern your gun with your chosen ammunition at short range. It’s eye-opening. It’s easy to miss.
My shotguns, a.410 bore and a 12 gauge, both have lights and lasers and are my go-to guns for issues out by the stable or bird coop. But for noises in the house, I get my XdM with 19 rounds of 9 mm Gold Dots and a light.
I heartily endorse Stiff’s last comment. At distances in most homes, shotgun spread is surprisingly small. If your HD gun is a shotgun, be sure to pattern your gun with your chosen ammunition at short range. It’s eye-opening. It’s easy to miss.
Re: Looking to get HD shotgun, thoughts?
19Rifles, shotguns, and handguns all have pros and cons as home defense weapons. All can be used effectively.
Right now, there is not much of a selection of guns available, and ammunition can be scarce. If you're looking at a particular gun, make sure you can get proper ammo for it.
Right now, there is not much of a selection of guns available, and ammunition can be scarce. If you're looking at a particular gun, make sure you can get proper ammo for it.
Re: Looking to get HD shotgun, thoughts?
20There is no home defense scenario that doesn't involve PTSD. By the time an attacker is close enough for that to matter, psychological trauma is inevitable. But for witnesses, law enforcement, etc., you are absolutely on point. That said, every time I see a home-defense-with-a-sword story hit the news, they involve an assailant getting smart and sitting down to wait for a nice safe police escort.Mason wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:16 pm Wings, hacking somebody up with a machete is likely to be even more traumatizing than filling them full o' lead, said the guy who has witnessed machete hackings.
Re: Looking to get HD shotgun, thoughts?
21Have you ever actually fired a a shotgun at a target?Bisbee wrote: Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:38 pm But you have to actually AIM a rifle.
Not so much a shotgun. Just point it in the general direction... And all intruders know that too.
Re: Looking to get HD shotgun, thoughts?
22Several targets in fact... all inanimate and with great satisfaction for the number of perforations I achieved.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi
I have killed things with a 12ga...
23My experience with shotties & HD (luckily) doesn't involve humans, rather large (60-90lb) feral dogs that are in abundance out this way. The county animal control does all it can, but we have lost many pet animals to them over the years.
I've had both a good handgun available as well as a Mossberg 12ga. I never killed any of the miserable beasts with the pistol at the range they were at, but the 00 buck has lessened their numbers quickly more than once. The hits with the handgun were on the run, and they just kept on running. Maybe they died later, maybe not.
If you have to shoot, make it fatal. Wounded 'victims' tend to sue...
In a life or death situation, your smaller-stature partner will fight like a cornered cat and never remember the recoil...
So, I recommend a 12ga shotty. A good 18" barrel pump from a reputable manufacturer like Mossy or Remington & low-recoil 00 buck.
Plus, shotties don't entail a lot of anti-gun derision, if that is any factor in your quest.
S u b R o s a
I've had both a good handgun available as well as a Mossberg 12ga. I never killed any of the miserable beasts with the pistol at the range they were at, but the 00 buck has lessened their numbers quickly more than once. The hits with the handgun were on the run, and they just kept on running. Maybe they died later, maybe not.
If you have to shoot, make it fatal. Wounded 'victims' tend to sue...
In a life or death situation, your smaller-stature partner will fight like a cornered cat and never remember the recoil...
So, I recommend a 12ga shotty. A good 18" barrel pump from a reputable manufacturer like Mossy or Remington & low-recoil 00 buck.
Plus, shotties don't entail a lot of anti-gun derision, if that is any factor in your quest.
S u b R o s a
Last edited by SubRosa on Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Oozing charm from every pore, he oiled his way around the floor."
Re: Looking to get HD shotgun, thoughts?
24My nightstand gun is a Glock 19 with an extended mag, loaded with 18 rounds of 124 grain Federal HST. It has a light attached, so I don’t need to keep track of it separately. The pistol is kept in an OWB paddle holster that I can put on any pants.Bucolic wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:43 pm This^
My shotguns, a.410 bore and a 12 gauge, both have lights and lasers and are my go-to guns for issues out by the stable or bird coop. But for noises in the house, I get my XdM with 19 rounds of 9 mm Gold Dots and a light.
I heartily endorse Stiff’s last comment. At distances in most homes, shotgun spread is surprisingly small. If your HD gun is a shotgun, be sure to pattern your gun with your chosen ammunition at short range. It’s eye-opening. It’s easy to miss.
If it’s beyond a suspicious noise, I would grab my 8.5” AR pistol with a tandem mag, so I have 60 rounds on tap. That gun is equipped with a light, red dot, and laser. If the red dot runs out of juice, the laser will be very useful. Besides, having a laser dot on the chest tends to persuade people to stop.
Glad that federal government is boring again.
Re: I have killed things with a 12ga...
25Dogs? Or hogs?SubRosa wrote: Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:13 pm My experience with shotties & HD (luckily) doesn't involve humans, rather large (60-90lb) feral dogs that are in abundance out this way. The county animal control does all it can, but we have lost many pet animals to them over the years.
<snip>
S u b R o s a
Or Javelinas?
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi