Shotgun life

Reviews and discussion of shotguns.

Moderators: Inquisitor, admin, ForumModerator, WebsiteContent

Message
Author
User avatar
sikacz
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 14061
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:03 am
Location: LGC MEMBER: Houston
Contact:

Shotgun life

#1 Post by sikacz » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:08 am

Tell me about shotguns. It seems like such a simple gun especially the single or over under type. How do they age? Are old stocks with cracks worthless or useable if still solid? Is there a barrel life? What needs to be eventually replaced? Anything else?
ImageImage
"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many

User avatar
SubRosa
Chatty
Posts: 1165
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:48 pm
Location: AZ Desert
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#2 Post by SubRosa » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:35 am

A pump gun can last a very long time, even neglected.

An autoloader, not so much without maintenance.

Double barrels/over-unders work well but are a bit more flimsy than an autoloader, even moreso with megabuck items.

Broken wood is a sign of abuse, and may make it very unsafe to shoot. Luckily, most replacement wood is available.

Shotgun barrels don't wear out, but they get dented, rusty, or sawn off too short (<18")

An old $25 bird gun beater could be fixed up as a good home defense deal.

Subs
Another well-armed leftist. :ras:

User avatar
DavidMS
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 608
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:22 pm
Location: Virgina
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#3 Post by DavidMS » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:52 am

I have heard that some old shotguns from the late 19th century/early 20th century do not have the metallurgical strength to handle modern (smokeless) propellants. If buying used or restoring an old shotgun, take it to a qualified gunsmith to check out before firing it if you have any concerns.

User avatar
SubRosa
Chatty
Posts: 1165
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:48 pm
Location: AZ Desert
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#4 Post by SubRosa » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:16 am

DavidMS wrote:I have heard that some old shotguns from the late 19th century/early 20th century do not have the metallurgical strength.
That would be those with Damascus barrels. Shows up with a pretty swirl pattern in the steel.

They were made by twisting a bunch of iron wires around a mandrel and beating them together under white heat. When they age, the inclusions start rust, and may unravel when fired. :w00t:

Subs
Another well-armed leftist. :ras:

User avatar
Marlene
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 5052
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:48 pm
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#5 Post by Marlene » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:48 am

What do you want to do with it? Defense or clay birds or hunting or something else?
Image

User avatar
K9s
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 6812
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:18 pm
Location: LGC Member: Georgia
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#6 Post by K9s » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:06 am

sikacz wrote:Tell me about shotguns. It seems like such a simple gun especially the single or over under type. How do they age? Are old stocks with cracks worthless or useable if still solid? Is there a barrel life? What needs to be eventually replaced? Anything else?
Can you give us a hint about why you are asking? Is this something you are going to buy or was given to you? Pics? Gauge? Age and condition of this shotgun?

Cracked stocks can be repaired, but it depends on the location and extent of the damage.
The border between civilization and savagery is porous and patrolled by opportunists. Resist fascism. Vote like your democracy depends on it.

User avatar
sikacz
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 14061
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:03 am
Location: LGC MEMBER: Houston
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#7 Post by sikacz » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:05 am

K9s wrote:
sikacz wrote:Tell me about shotguns. It seems like such a simple gun especially the single or over under type. How do they age? Are old stocks with cracks worthless or useable if still solid? Is there a barrel life? What needs to be eventually replaced? Anything else?
Can you give us a hint about why you are asking? Is this something you are going to buy or was given to you? Pics? Gauge? Age and condition of this shotgun?

Cracked stocks can be repaired, but it depends on the location and extent of the damage.
Research. I can't find it any more, but it was a Valmet Over Under that in the description said the stock was cracked, but still solid.
ImageImage
"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many

User avatar
sikacz
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 14061
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:03 am
Location: LGC MEMBER: Houston
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#8 Post by sikacz » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:17 am

Marlene wrote:What do you want to do with it? Defense or clay birds or hunting or something else?
Clays. Just getting a feel for what to look for and know. I'll need one in the future for client relationship events. So I started looking to see what I could find for competition over under type used and new. For new I was thinking along the lines of shinzen's Redhead. Used I was just seeing what is out there and got curious about a few Valmets. Not sure if the Valmets were more field type or not or if those distinctions matter.
ImageImage
"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many

User avatar
ncbluedot
Been around awhile
Posts: 279
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2015 6:16 pm
Location: Lake Norman, NC
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#9 Post by ncbluedot » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:27 am

I rekindled my interest in shooting sports when i was invited by a friend to shoot some clays. I started out picking up a pair of 870s. Pumps will get you on the field without a large investment. If you're only going out once or twice a year that maybe good enough. I moved on to an entry level over under, Tri-Star. Over unders are much lighter than pumps or auto loaders and helped improve my score. A lighter gun also helps with fatigue. Two rounds with a pump is fine. 5 rounds made my shoulders and arms fall off.

"Client relationship" helps with the discussion. Like any sport, there is a good bit of equipment snobbery on the field. if I were buying to dip a toe into the water yet still have a gun that wouldn't be poo-pooed by club regulars, a CZ or Browning are a good starting point.

User avatar
atxgunguy
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 5807
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:42 pm
Location: Austin, TX
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#10 Post by atxgunguy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:06 am

sikacz wrote:
Marlene wrote:What do you want to do with it? Defense or clay birds or hunting or something else?
Clays. Just getting a feel for what to look for and know. I'll need one in the future for client relationship events. So I started looking to see what I could find for competition over under type used and new. For new I was thinking along the lines of shinzen's Redhead. Used I was just seeing what is out there and got curious about a few Valmets. Not sure if the Valmets were more field type or not or if those distinctions matter.
Being that you're a CZ-purist, I'd go with the CZ 712. Great value for what you get.

http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-712-g2-12-gauge-26-barrel/

Image
LGC Texas - Central Region President

Image

User avatar
sikacz
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 14061
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:03 am
Location: LGC MEMBER: Houston
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#11 Post by sikacz » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:36 am

atxgunguy wrote:
sikacz wrote:
Marlene wrote:What do you want to do with it? Defense or clay birds or hunting or something else?
Clays. Just getting a feel for what to look for and know. I'll need one in the future for client relationship events. So I started looking to see what I could find for competition over under type used and new. For new I was thinking along the lines of shinzen's Redhead. Used I was just seeing what is out there and got curious about a few Valmets. Not sure if the Valmets were more field type or not or if those distinctions matter.
Being that you're a CZ-purist, I'd go with the CZ 712. Great value for what you get.

http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-712-g2-12-gauge-26-barrel/

Image
I liked that one and was looking at thinking I could buy that one. Then I was talking with one of my old bosses who retired from the firm and has participated in some of these skeet shoots and he said I'd need an over under. So that lead me to relook at CZ over under shotguns and shinzen's old thread here on his CZ Redhead. I found this as an option and I've seen it for around $1100 to $1200, a CZ Redhead Premier Target over under 12 gauge:
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-redhead-pr ... 0-barrels/
Then being who I am for fun I thought I'd look at used. The CZ is my heavy favorite.
ImageImage
"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many

User avatar
sikacz
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 14061
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:03 am
Location: LGC MEMBER: Houston
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#12 Post by sikacz » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:18 am

I noticed the CZ used chrome on the receiver and black chrome on the barrels. Is that durable?
ImageImage
"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many

User avatar
eelj
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 15013
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:49 pm
Location: Minnesota
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#13 Post by eelj » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:34 am

You should go to a trap range with people you know and try out a few different guns to see how you shoot them. Shotguns can be a very personal thing in your life and not all of the different styles work for everybody. I can't hit a thing with a lot of them but side by sides and brake action single shots work great for me. Many of the old guns made in the smokeless era have barrels that can be harmed from steel shot. I gave up duck hunting when lead shot was banned because my hunter arms side by side was made in the 30s or even earlier. I think any gun made from the 60s on can handle steel shot, possibly even earlier.

User avatar
shinzen
Site Admin
Posts: 18965
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:52 pm
Location: Northern California
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#14 Post by shinzen » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:44 am

Fitment is everything. I would definitely recommend going to a local range where you can take lessons/get coaching. I had to add a longer pad onto mine in order for the LOP to be correct.
Bear in mind also that a lightweight O/U like my Redhead Premier will have more recoil than a semi-auto. Depending on your budget, I can also recommend the Stoeger M3000- mine has been flawless, and it's inertia/recoil operated rather than having a gas system- less stuff to clean out than a semi with a gas system.

On the 30" target model, I don't think you'd be disappointed- the only reason I picked up the shorter barreled version is for hunting. In retrospect, I probably should have gone with the longer version and just use the Stoeger in the field.

Oh, and no issues (so far) with finish durability. Mine stays in the case it shipped with (which is a pretty nice plastic case with fabric socks to keep both pieces in)
Image

User avatar
sikacz
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 14061
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:03 am
Location: LGC MEMBER: Houston
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#15 Post by sikacz » Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:08 am

shinzen wrote:Fitment is everything. I would definitely recommend going to a local range where you can take lessons/get coaching. I had to add a longer pad onto mine in order for the LOP to be correct.
Bear in mind also that a lightweight O/U like my Redhead Premier will have more recoil than a semi-auto. Depending on your budget, I can also recommend the Stoeger M3000- mine has been flawless, and it's inertia/recoil operated rather than having a gas system- less stuff to clean out than a semi with a gas system.

On the 30" target model, I don't think you'd be disappointed- the only reason I picked up the shorter barreled version is for hunting. In retrospect, I probably should have gone with the longer version and just use the Stoeger in the field.

Oh, and no issues (so far) with finish durability. Mine stays in the case it shipped with (which is a pretty nice plastic case with fabric socks to keep both pieces in)
I was wondering about how to store it. Thanks for the pointers. It's pretty much going to have to be an over under.
ImageImage
"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many

User avatar
eelj
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 15013
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:49 pm
Location: Minnesota
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#16 Post by eelj » Tue Jan 16, 2018 12:48 pm

I really wish I had had some formal training in trap shooting when I was young. Game shooting is quite different and although I have been very successful game shooting I'm terrible at trap.

Years ago when Ross Seyfreid was active as a writer credited trap shooting as part of his success in IPSC competition, he ended his practice sessions at his ranch with trap shooting.

User avatar
Bisbee
Carpal Tunnel
Posts: 6242
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:38 pm
Location: On The Border with no need of The Wall.
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#17 Post by Bisbee » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:11 pm

Yo! Did someone really talk about the Shotgun Life without first asking Da Snoop?!?
IMG_2741.PNG
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

User avatar
sikacz
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 14061
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:03 am
Location: LGC MEMBER: Houston
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#18 Post by sikacz » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:56 pm

Bisbee wrote:Yo! Did someone really talk about the Shotgun Life without first asking Da Snoop?!?IMG_2741.PNG
:roflmao:
ImageImage
"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many

User avatar
K9s
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 6812
Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:18 pm
Location: LGC Member: Georgia
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#19 Post by K9s » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:23 am

Interesting discussion. I know nothing about clays/trap shooting, but I love to shoot shotguns.
The border between civilization and savagery is porous and patrolled by opportunists. Resist fascism. Vote like your democracy depends on it.

AKmando55
Helpful Contributor
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:34 pm
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#20 Post by AKmando55 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:07 pm

sikacz wrote:Tell me about shotguns. It seems like such a simple gun especially the single or over under type. How do they age? Are old stocks with cracks worthless or useable if still solid? Is there a barrel life? What needs to be eventually replaced? Anything else?
Proper fit of a shotgun is just as important as make and model. Target acquisition requires that your line of sight instantly fall down the barrel, lest the game get away. Shotgunningc well will make you a bette rifle & pistol shooter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

User avatar
Marlene
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 5052
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:48 pm
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#21 Post by Marlene » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:25 pm

I've heard a lot of places that shotgunning will improve one's rifle and pistol shooting. Can someone elaborate on that? I'm far more accomplished a shooter with rifle and pistol and I don't think I quite understand the relationship people are suggesting.
Image

User avatar
eelj
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 15013
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:49 pm
Location: Minnesota
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#22 Post by eelj » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:31 pm

Seyfried claimed that for the action discipline of IPSC It's the rapid acquisition of the bead on the moving target.

User avatar
sikacz
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 14061
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:03 am
Location: LGC MEMBER: Houston
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#23 Post by sikacz » Thu Jan 18, 2018 3:10 am

eelj wrote:Seyfried claimed that for the action discipline of IPSC It's the rapid acquisition of the bead on the moving target.
I read that too. It'll be time to practice and see.
ImageImage
"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many

User avatar
Bang
Chatty
Posts: 1383
Joined: Tue May 16, 2017 11:52 pm
Location: LGC Member in The land of the Mormons
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#24 Post by Bang » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:44 am

Marlene wrote:I've heard a lot of places that shotgunning will improve one's rifle and pistol shooting. Can someone elaborate on that? I'm far more accomplished a shooter with rifle and pistol and I don't think I quite understand the relationship people are suggesting.
I'll conject that shooting moving targets with less sight equipment on the gun helps connect dots somewhere deeper in your brain than you're consciously aware of when it comes to target acquisition and aiming.

User avatar
Marlene
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 5052
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:48 pm
Contact:

Re: Shotgun life

#25 Post by Marlene » Thu Jan 18, 2018 9:35 pm

Ah. Now I get it. It's not an intuitive connection for me because my opportunities to shoot pistol and rifle in situations where either I'm moving or the target is moving are so limited.

Thanks guys
Image

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests