Re: Will 2020 be The Squad vs The Deplorables

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Remember it was under Reagan we had amnesty for the “illegal “ immigrants allowing them to become legal residents with a pathway to citizenship. Except for Asians, we had open immigration for many years through Ellis Island, because they were predominantly white. Interesting that Trump wasn’t to worried when his wife brought her family over under the chain immigration but let a person of color try that and he decided we can’t allow that. By his history, Trump is a racist. At his resorts and casinos he demanded to only be served by white people. He told his casino mangers he didn’t want Black people counting his money. His father was a racist and he has followed in his footsteps. They both had to pay fines for racial discrimination in housing. His remarks about Baltimore along with his remarks about members of Congress of color, he is still thinking the same ideology of racism. His MAGA followers are doing the same if you listen to his rallies.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Will 2020 be The Squad vs The Deplorables?

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I haven't been here very long, but I believe the election of 2020 is not going to be won by the idiots who call every former Clinton or Sanders voter a communist traitor or the idiots who call every former Trump voter a racist. Each of those sad groups has one thing in common: they are bigoted to the point that the cannot understand any other groups' viewpoints -- and can certainly never change them!

The election is going to turn on the votes of all the "Carl Spacklers" in this country. People who are common-sense enough to realize that everyone who is so obsessed with his or her own opinion will never act as an agent of change. People who can actually see both sides of an incredibly complex political dynamic that exists outside the Trumpites and the Squaddites and are more likely than any other group to make choices based on some sort of objective view.

I don't know anything about the real Carl Spackler except that he could use a shave. But I know a lot of "Carl Spacklers", many of whom voted for Trump and are having second thoughts, and many of whom voted (or supported) people like Clinton or Biden and are now afraid of what they see as radical leftists who are willing to lose the election, as long as they can "go down with flags flying".

All the "Carl Spacklers" are not locked into a particular agenda which would brook no interference, and you -- if you come up with sound views and a decent slate of candidates -- can have them vote with you. But talk insultingly to them, denigrate their view, or demand that they accept your orthodoxy...

...then look forward to another four years of Making America Godawful Again. It's our choice.

Re: Will 2020 be The Squad vs The Deplorables?

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Duncan wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:10 pm I haven't been here very long, but I believe the election of 2020 is not going to be won by the idiots who call every former Clinton or Sanders voter a communist traitor or the idiots who call every former Trump voter a racist. Each of those sad groups has one thing in common: they are bigoted to the point that the cannot understand any other groups' viewpoints -- and can certainly never change them!

The election is going to turn on the votes of all the "Carl Spacklers" in this country. People who are common-sense enough to realize that everyone who is so obsessed with his or her own opinion will never act as an agent of change. People who can actually see both sides of an incredibly complex political dynamic that exists outside the Trumpites and the Squaddites and are more likely than any other group to make choices based on some sort of objective view.

I don't know anything about the real Carl Spackler except that he could use a shave. But I know a lot of "Carl Spacklers", many of whom voted for Trump and are having second thoughts, and many of whom voted (or supported) people like Clinton or Biden and are now afraid of what they see as radical leftists who are willing to lose the election, as long as they can "go down with flags flying".

All the "Carl Spacklers" are not locked into a particular agenda which would brook no interference, and you -- if you come up with sound views and a decent slate of candidates -- can have them vote with you. But talk insultingly to them, denigrate their view, or demand that they accept your orthodoxy...

...then look forward to another four years of Making America Godawful Again. It's our choice.
We disagree on a lot of things. We disagree about the electorate and solutions.

I am not demanding anything from you or anyone else, but you seem to believe that any discussion points are aimed at you... for some reason. Seems fishy, but I really don't know why you guys are so defensive.

That is all.

Bye!
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Re: Will 2020 be The Squad vs The Deplorables?

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Interesting to hear 'both sides' arguments here, I must say. After the pussy grabbing, after the administrative incompetence and corruption, after the wealth transfer from those who can't afford it to those who are drowning in wealth, via the tax cut, after environmental law degradations, after daily attacks on fellow Americans and entire American cities, to say nothing of continual racist remarks, I don't need an echo chamber to make a decision on who I'm not voting for.

Policies? Let's see...
* Trump promised better healthcare for less. - Epic Fail.
* Trump promised border security and despite a cruel and inhumane policy designed to be so awful to people who want to come here that they won't bother, numbers of people wanting to come in are still at record levels - Fail.
* He promised he would be so presidential. Instead he has been offensive, crass, and despicable, alienating our allies and coddling dictators and authoritarians. - Fail.
* He said he'd bring Americans together. Instead he has been the most divisive president in living memory. - Fail.
* He promised he'd drain the swamp. Instead, the damn thing is overflowing with graft, corruption, and incompetence. When was the last time you heard any of the fools who work for him even give lip service to Good Governance? - Fail.

I tell you what, after his shitshow of a presidency, I'm not particularly interested in the opinions of people who continue to support him, and I care fuckall for excuses about how they're not racist, or how he's really no different from Obama, or how the immigration system was broken when he found it.

Oh, was the immigration system broken when he found it? Yes. Can I take him to task for making it worse, less humane, less dignified, more prone to human rights abuses than it was before? For ignoring those proactive measures that would actually reduce the numbers of desperate people from risking their lives to come knocking on our door? You bet I can.
"I am not a number, I am a free man!" - Number Six

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Re: Will 2020 be The Squad vs The Deplorables?

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Bacchus wrote: Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:31 pm Interesting to hear 'both sides' arguments here, I must say. After the pussy grabbing, after the administrative incompetence and corruption, after the wealth transfer from those who can't afford it to those who are drowning in wealth, via the tax cut, after environmental law degradations, after daily attacks on fellow Americans and entire American cities, to say nothing of continual racist remarks, I don't need an echo chamber to make a decision on who I'm not voting for.

Policies? Let's see...
* Trump promised better healthcare for less. - Epic Fail.
* Trump promised border security and despite a cruel and inhumane policy designed to be so awful to people who want to come here that they won't bother, numbers of people wanting to come in are still at record levels - Fail.
* He promised he would be so presidential. Instead he has been offensive, crass, and despicable, alienating our allies and coddling dictators and authoritarians. - Fail.
* He said he'd bring Americans together. Instead he has been the most divisive president in living memory. - Fail.
* He promised he'd drain the swamp. Instead, the damn thing is overflowing with graft, corruption, and incompetence. When was the last time you heard any of the fools who work for him even give lip service to Good Governance? - Fail.

I tell you what, after his shitshow of a presidency, I'm not particularly interested in the opinions of people who continue to support him, and I care fuckall for excuses about how they're not racist, or how he's really no different from Obama, or how the immigration system was broken when he found it.

Oh, was the immigration system broken when he found it? Yes. Can I take him to task for making it worse, less humane, less dignified, more prone to human rights abuses than it was before? For ignoring those proactive measures that would actually reduce the numbers of desperate people from risking their lives to come knocking on our door? You bet I can.
Don’t forget he complained about Obama playing to much golf and promised to stay in the White House working. - BIG FAIL
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Will 2020 be The Squad vs The Deplorables?

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TrueTexan wrote: Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:06 pm
Bacchus wrote: Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:31 pm Interesting to hear 'both sides' arguments here, I must say. After the pussy grabbing, after the administrative incompetence and corruption, after the wealth transfer from those who can't afford it to those who are drowning in wealth, via the tax cut, after environmental law degradations, after daily attacks on fellow Americans and entire American cities, to say nothing of continual racist remarks, I don't need an echo chamber to make a decision on who I'm not voting for.

Policies? Let's see...
* Trump promised better healthcare for less. - Epic Fail.
* Trump promised border security and despite a cruel and inhumane policy designed to be so awful to people who want to come here that they won't bother, numbers of people wanting to come in are still at record levels - Fail.
* He promised he would be so presidential. Instead he has been offensive, crass, and despicable, alienating our allies and coddling dictators and authoritarians. - Fail.
* He said he'd bring Americans together. Instead he has been the most divisive president in living memory. - Fail.
* He promised he'd drain the swamp. Instead, the damn thing is overflowing with graft, corruption, and incompetence. When was the last time you heard any of the fools who work for him even give lip service to Good Governance? - Fail.

I tell you what, after his shitshow of a presidency, I'm not particularly interested in the opinions of people who continue to support him, and I care fuckall for excuses about how they're not racist, or how he's really no different from Obama, or how the immigration system was broken when he found it.

Oh, was the immigration system broken when he found it? Yes. Can I take him to task for making it worse, less humane, less dignified, more prone to human rights abuses than it was before? For ignoring those proactive measures that would actually reduce the numbers of desperate people from risking their lives to come knocking on our door? You bet I can.
Don’t forget he complained about Obama playing to much golf and promised to stay in the White House working. - BIG FAIL
Heh, I forgot about the golf bit. Point is, it just goes on and on with this guy, and not just for being a despicable racist misogynist asshole: There are real, concrete policy issues that are A) either crap or B) are crap and which have failed in any case.
"I am not a number, I am a free man!" - Number Six

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Re: Will 2020 be The Squad vs The Deplorables?

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And his "pluses"? :sarcasm:
1a) HUGE tax cuts for the wealthiest that were supposed to invested back in the country and were used to buy back stock instead, while creating an abyss of a deficit. Fail!
1b) Tax cuts for "reg'lar people" that turned out to be giant tax increases, and expected returns became bills. Fail!
2) Hottest economy in years--because it was launched by 8 years of Obama's hard work reversing the Bush years, and hasn't collapsed YET because of the "sugar high" of 1a). Soon.To.Fail.
3) Lots of tariffs on China that have resulted in higher prices for consumers because Trump doesn't understand that tariffs are not absorbed, they are PASSED ON AS PRICE INCREASES! Fail!
4) Unleashed the simmering racism, goading the racists on that has resulted in shootings, attempted shootings, fire-bombing, at least 3 attempted bombings (Mail bomber, CG officer, and this asshole in Vegas). FAIL!
5) Worst.disaster.response.ever! In Puerto Rico--because they don't vote, are brown and speak Spanish like the "invading" refugees. FAIL!
6) Crass thumbs-up while Melania holds a baby whose parents were murdered saving him in El Paso. FAIL.
7) Farms are in deep-shit trouble because of retaliation from China to his tariffs, and his "bail-out" to them all went to the giant commercial factory farms. FAIL! (and those farmers will STILL vote for him).

And so, the "deplorables" will vote for him anyway. Better to die under OUR bad guy than survive and prosper under the hated "enemy"!
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Will 2020 be The Squad vs The Deplorables?

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I posted this thread last month after the "send her back" comments. My, how that seems so quaint these days. So much has happened in the last two weeks.

Remember that two years ago, we learned of the very fine people that Trump admires. It seems like we live in dog years. I hope things turn around soon.

"On August 12, 2017, a car was deliberately driven into a crowd of people who had been peacefully protesting the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia"
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Re: Will 2020 be The Squad vs The Deplorables?

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K9s wrote: Sat Aug 10, 2019 9:44 pm I posted this thread last month after the "send her back" comments. My, how that seems so quaint these days. So much has happened in the last two weeks.

Remember that two years ago, we learned of the very fine people that Trump admires. It seems like we live in dog years. I hope things turn around soon.

"On August 12, 2017, a car was deliberately driven into a crowd of people who had been peacefully protesting the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia"
So true, K9s.
"I am not a number, I am a free man!" - Number Six

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Re: Will 2020 be The Squad vs The Deplorables?

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Duncan wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 1:10 pm I haven't been here very long, but I believe the election of 2020 is not going to be won by the idiots who call every former Clinton or Sanders voter a communist traitor or the idiots who call every former Trump voter a racist. Each of those sad groups has one thing in common: they are bigoted to the point that the cannot understand any other groups' viewpoints -- and can certainly never change them!

The election is going to turn on the votes of all the "Carl Spacklers" in this country. People who are common-sense enough to realize that everyone who is so obsessed with his or her own opinion will never act as an agent of change. People who can actually see both sides of an incredibly complex political dynamic that exists outside the Trumpites and the Squaddites and are more likely than any other group to make choices based on some sort of objective view.

I don't know anything about the real Carl Spackler except that he could use a shave. But I know a lot of "Carl Spacklers", many of whom voted for Trump and are having second thoughts, and many of whom voted (or supported) people like Clinton or Biden and are now afraid of what they see as radical leftists who are willing to lose the election, as long as they can "go down with flags flying".

All the "Carl Spacklers" are not locked into a particular agenda which would brook no interference, and you -- if you come up with sound views and a decent slate of candidates -- can have them vote with you. But talk insultingly to them, denigrate their view, or demand that they accept your orthodoxy...

...then look forward to another four years of Making America Godawful Again. It's our choice.
Precisely. For me it's about consistency, which is why i've been more critical of the Left. I simply do not abide by the tactics being used by the far Left because they don't win elections. Those tactics do nothing but sow division and cause people to leave your team. For example, a lot of the news headlines are about painting ALL Trump supporters as racist because they voted for the guy. Are all Muslims terrorists? Of course not, and the Left likes to shout this at the top of their lungs to anyone that will listen. So if all Muslims are not terrorists, then how can all Republicans be racists? I recall someone here stating that Dems/Liberals/Progressives are not a monolithic block of individuals that think the same things. We're all different, otherwise we wouldn't be here on a 'Liberal' gun forum. Likewise, Conservatives are not a monolithic block who think the same things. I find it quite disturbing that many people on the Left have disowned friends and family members simply because they have a different point of view. I know Conservatives that are some of the nicest, most generous people out there, so it bothers me that the far Left chooses to paint these individuals as monsters. Instead of continuing with the deplorables rant how about taking your frustration to the ballot box? That's far more productive than sh*tting on anyone that doesn't hold your worldview.

Re: Will 2020 be The Squad vs The Deplorables?

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I've distanced myself from some friends and relatives, not because they have a different point of view, but because they support Trump - the two are not synonymous. IMO they are enablers of a corrupt and dangerously ignorant POS human. #sad
"Being Republican is more than a difference of opinion - it's a character flaw." "COVID can fix STUPID!"
The greatest, most aggrieved mistake EVER made in USA was electing DJT as POTUS.

Re: Will 2020 be The Squad vs The Deplorables?

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Carl_Spackler wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:33 am I don't see anyone getting upset except you. I've stated my positions calmly, or what passes as calm on a forum, and right on queue here comes @Marlene with the name calling and baseless accusations. If you're what passes for the face of the Left then God help us all
That you can't tell the difference between my politics and a bunch of centrist new-dealer Democrats is all that needs to be said about your political analysis.
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Re: Will 2020 be The Squad vs The Deplorables?

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Strange... the only headlines I have seen that paint all Trump voters as racist come from the far-right. It is a both-sides/false equivalence/straw man argument that they use all the time. When someone calls out his tweets or statements as racist, the GOP claims the person called the voters racist. It isn't true, but they have done it a lot since 2015. GOP lies. A lot.

They have no original message. They stole the idea from George Wallace who claimed that they were calling his voters racist by calling out his racism. The stole MAGA from Reagan. They stole America First, too.
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Re: Will 2020 be The Squad vs The Deplorables?

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Marlene wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:12 pm
That you can't tell the difference between my politics and a bunch of centrist new-dealer Democrats is all that needs to be said about your political analysis.
I don’t care what your politics are at this point. You’ve already demonstrated 10x over just how unhinged you are with the personal attacks. You represent a microcosm of the electorate that can’t handle different opinions, so you have to resort to name calling.

Re: Will 2020 be The Squad vs The Deplorables?

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As we discuss all Carl's "tactics being used by the far Left because they don't win elections", environmental and worker protections go down the black hole of GOP deregulation and science is still denigrated.

Carl, I still wonder if you realize that 2018 was an election year and that "the Left" won a LOT of elections.
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

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