Re: Joe Biden 2020

176
VodoundaVinci said:

Once again it seems they are literally trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory...
Careful there - be careful. That is the Democratic Party calling card. Basically only united against something, seldom for something.
Will Rogers

I am not a member of any organized political party. I am a Democrat.

I personally vote Democratic and have done so consistently since 1990. But I often hold my nose to do so.
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Re: Joe Biden 2020

177
I still don't think Biden will be the nominee for POTUS. If he wins the nomination, he gets my vote. No room for error here.
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Re: Joe Biden 2020

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Phaedrus wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:04 am He's way down the list of choices for me but if it's him for Trump he'll certainly get my vote.
When I was 9, I remember my Mom saying she didn't want to vote for Lyndon Johnson. My 13 year old brother asked her "What if he's running against Barry Goldwater"? Then Mom said "Then I'll vote for Johnson!"

That was 1964. Somethings remain the same. I won't vote for Biden in the NJ Primary (I want to see my D Rep primaried, too!). But I will vote for the Democratic ticket in November, without hesitation.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Joe Biden 2020

180
Still early days, it looks like either Biden, Warren or Sanders but things change. Steyr and Delaney didn't make it on the stage next week, but they are wealthy enough to finance their own campaigns if they want to continue.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Joe Biden 2020

182
Pretty sure the DNC learned nothing in 2016 and that they will shove/rig/force Biden to be the Nominee. In which case, just like 2016, millions of potential would be Democrat voters will stay home or vote 3rd Party assuring 4 more years of Der Trumpen Furher.

Ever Democrats will say we need to simply hold our noses and Vote for Joe no matter what but this is exactly why these folks *won't* vote for Joe - Tired of getting Establishment owned and operated candidates shoved to the front despite our choice being a Progressive/Liberal. You can bitch at them and threaten them with 4 more years of Trump but many of them actually voted for that asshole just to show the DNC/Democrats how pissed and alienated they were. Many folks feel that it's better to break the whole System (nothing gets fixed until it's broken beyond functionality) that to vote Democrat "no matter what" and submit to an ultimatum issued by Establishment Democrats.

We are over a year out and it's the same old shit from the DNC. I'm preparing myself for Joe Biden to be the nominee (no matter what - it's his turn this time) and to see millions vote against him to piss in the Democrats faces for cheating. Again. And if it doesn't happen that way and we get Bernie, Warren, (anyone but Joe Biden) or another it will be a landslide victory for the Democrats next November and all the single malt I have saved to drown my sorrows will be used as a party libation. :yahoo:

It's a countdown to the future of this country and our form of Government. Gaad help US. I pray the Democrats and their Establishment owned DNC can just let The People have their choice and we can be rid of the Orange Stain. But it's not looking good over a year out.

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Re: Joe Biden 2020

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I really don't see anyone forcing or pushing or rigging things for Biden. Voters are motivated this time around on all sides. The best funded candidate doesn't always win if the voters vote. The exciting progressive wins if voters vote.

As long as the Dems focus on state and local races, I really don't care if it is Biden or Williams or Yang on the ticket. States and cities can push back if they are representative of the voters. The people in red states (from farmers to prisoners to migrants to IT workers) need some help. Every little bit will be an improvement.
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Re: Joe Biden 2020

184
I will find it tremendously difficult to vote for a ho-hum establishment Dem that brings nothing to the table beyond "I'm not Trump." Especially when that candidate is talking gun confiscation/buy backs. While my eyes are wide open with regard to what Trump represents, I'm not sure I can just plug my nose and vote for a candidate that is one step beyond in terms of condemning a constitutional right. It's going to be quite a quandary for me if Biden is the candidate. Here's hoping for something better.

Re: Joe Biden 2020

185
Oh, I think Perez and the DNC is putting the thumb on the scale for Biden, but just a lot more subtly than DWS did for Hillary in 2016. They were careful TWICE to make sure she wasn't on the debate stage with him. Everyone who believes that was REALLY random I gotta bridge for you.

I think the DCCC warning against "primarying" current members is an oblique attempt at that as well.

We'll see more of these as we move forward.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Joe Biden 2020

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YankeeTarheel wrote:Since 1900, every Democrat who won was dynamic, with Big Ideas:
Wilson
FDR
Truman
JFK
LBJ
Carter
Clinton
Obama

Where does Joe Biden fit into this?
How many of those Democrats had to run against someone even remotely like Trump?

Re: Joe Biden 2020

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DMac wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:17 am
YankeeTarheel wrote:Since 1900, every Democrat who won was dynamic, with Big Ideas:
Wilson
FDR
Truman
JFK
LBJ
Carter
Clinton
Obama

Where does Joe Biden fit into this?
How many of those Democrats had to run against someone even remotely like Trump?
Trump is very unique. Barry Goldwater who ran against LBJ was very right wing so an outlier. LBJ succeeded JFK so he was an incumbent president running for a full term and he already had some major legislation under his belt.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Joe Biden 2020

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DMac wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:17 am
YankeeTarheel wrote:Since 1900, every Democrat who won was dynamic, with Big Ideas:
Wilson
FDR
Truman
JFK
LBJ
Carter
Clinton
Obama

Where does Joe Biden fit into this?
How many of those Democrats had to run against someone even remotely like Trump?
no one has...ever
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"Person, woman, man, camera, TV."

Re: Joe Biden 2020

189

highdesert wrote:
DMac wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:17 am
YankeeTarheel wrote:Since 1900, every Democrat who won was dynamic, with Big Ideas:
Wilson
FDR
Truman
JFK
LBJ
Carter
Clinton
Obama

Where does Joe Biden fit into this?
How many of those Democrats had to run against someone even remotely like Trump?
Trump is very unique.
That's my point, every metric we use to try to predict who can beat Trump is moot. We've never had a president like Trump, and as far as I know, we've never had two political parties trying to regroup

Re: Joe Biden 2020

191

senorgrand wrote:To be clear, I don't think either party is trying to regroup. They both seem on the same trajectory as 2016...
The statements made during the DNC chair elections, and certain GOP members mysteriously retiring lead me to believe otherwise

Re: Joe Biden 2020

193
I just realized that the Cali members seem to see things a little differently than me on this topic.

Red state non-GOP voters look up to California and other blue states. Don't disappoint us with fatalism. The more DSA or progressive candidates you can get into office, the better chance they have everywhere else because it is "possible". AOC, Pressley, and others made us all realize that we don't have to just choose the party line. Make us proud, blue staters!

Your vote is your vote. If you live in a safe Dem locale (City, County, District), then push for non-establishment candidates as hard as we are pushing for anything non-far-right in red areas. You sound like red state voters who don't see a way out of GOP control. Drive your district to vote for the best candidate and reject the establishment.

For example, I bet Sanders or Warren will win this red state and Cali primary voters will stay home while Biden wins Cali.

JMHO
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Re: Joe Biden 2020

194
K9s wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:36 pm I just realized that the Cali members seem to see things a little differently than me on this topic.
Absolutely. :lol:

Don't mistake fatalism for a desire for something better. ;) I'm really looking for someone that will push progressive ideals around climate, healthcare, income inequality, access to education, etc. I don't get any of that with Biden with the added bonus that he'll do his best to pry our ARs out of our hands as a central policy point. I've had plenty of prying by my own state government and am, quite frankly, fucking sick of it.

If Warren or Sanders start in with the confiscation talk, I'll still vote (with diminished enthusiasm) for them because the overall message is one that aligns with my desire to improve my fellow's condition. With Biden, all I can look forward to is further ass reaming with a renewed threat of confiscation. He offers nothing beyond "not Trump" to me. There is very little difference between the GOP and Corporate Dems beyond which issues they provide lip service from my little slice of the world. If I were in a red state, it would likely be all in on whoever had a D next to the box, regardless of what the policy was for the very reasons you indicate.

Re: Joe Biden 2020

195
Here's a tremendous part of why the Dems are owned. They owe, wait for it, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee a lot of money. It's a pay to play system.
THE DUES FOR the 2020 cycle, according to the DCCC dues document, range from $150,000 at the low level to $1,000,000 for the speaker of the House.

The document lays out the price of particular committee assignments. Leadership posts for the second-, third-, and fourth-ranking Democrats — currently Steny Hoyer, Jim Clyburn, and Ben Ray Luján — range from $900,000 down to $700,000. The next tier of leadership, which includes Caucus Chair Hakeem Jeffries, DCCC Chair Cheri Bustos, and others, costs just $575,000. Lower-ranking members of leadership owe between $400,000 and $500,000.
On those so-called money committees, like Ways and Means and Energy and Commerce, even freshman members are asked to pay higher dues. That’s because those committees have jurisdiction over effectively every major industry, giving members a leg-up in demanding checks from corporations who need — or oppose — legislation before the panel. It is also valuable for industries to have committee members write letters to agencies they oversee.
https://theintercept.com/2019/09/03/dcc ... tees-dues/

For free thinkers like AOC, it's hard to compete with those numbers. We've fucked ourselves out of representation with our own system. :roflmao:

Re: Joe Biden 2020

197
featureless wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:51 pm
K9s wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:36 pm I just realized that the Cali members seem to see things a little differently than me on this topic.
Absolutely. :lol:

Don't mistake fatalism for a desire for something better. ;) I'm really looking for someone that will push progressive ideals around climate, healthcare, income inequality, access to education, etc. I don't get any of that with Biden with the added bonus that he'll do his best to pry our ARs out of our hands as a central policy point. I've had plenty of prying by my own state government and am, quite frankly, fucking sick of it.

If Warren or Sanders start in with the confiscation talk, I'll still vote (with diminished enthusiasm) for them because the overall message is one that aligns with my desire to improve my fellow's condition. With Biden, all I can look forward to is further ass reaming with a renewed threat of confiscation. He offers nothing beyond "not Trump" to me. There is very little difference between the GOP and Corporate Dems beyond which issues they provide lip service from my little slice of the world. If I were in a red state, it would likely be all in on whoever had a D next to the box, regardless of what the policy was for the very reasons you indicate.
Maybe you misunderstand. Push for those progressive candidates to beat your incumbents. That is the only way to make D mean something.

Also, we don't just vote for any random D. The GOP-lite D candidate usually loses to GOP because no one wants them and D's don't vote for them. Progressive D candidates get people to vote and are the only way to defeat GOP in many districts. That may be the reason the DNC doesn't help us anymore. Screw 'em anyway. Vote them all out.
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Re: Joe Biden 2020

199
featureless wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:13 pm
K9s wrote: Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:50 pm Maybe you misunderstand.
Yup, I did. Sorry, focused on that first sentence. :albert:

Need more :coffee:
We agree. Screw 'em. Vote 'em all out.

Featureless (the member, not the gun laws) in 2020!
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Re: Joe Biden 2020

200
YankeeTarheel noted that:

Since 1900, every Democrat who won was dynamic, with Big Ideas:
Wilson
FDR
Truman
JFK
LBJ
Carter
Clinton
Obama

Where does Joe Biden fit into this?
+1 - Yes, the Democratic winning formula is an exciting vote getter. Only Johnson & Truman do not fully fit the bill for big ideas, but they were on a dead president's coat tails.
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