Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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I agree that it’s very likely nothing will happen but I absolutely disagree that it’s “just how the system works” and that it’s nothing to get worked up about.

Nothing like this has happened before. We are on the thinnest ice imaginable. If he doesn’t end up behind bars (he won’t) it will send a message that our democracy is fair game for anyone strong enough to take it. The anti democracy movement is strong and unbowed.

Many will accuse me of hyperbole but I honestly think our days as a democracy are numbered.
Whatever I said above, just pretend I included the obligatory “both sides,” especially if I said something mean about Trump (don’t want to hurt any feelings).

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Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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Which one of us has the authority to fire the AG?

Does anyone remember the reasons that Gerald Ford based his decision to pardon Richard Nixon upon?

Do you think that indicting Donald Trump would reduce the polarization in the US?

Were the National Socialists the majority political force in Germany in 1933?

Are we seeing examples of MTGs National Divorce in action when States sanction businesses that invest in alternate energy sources or bills to require registration and licensing before commenting on political figures or refusal to enforce Federal laws at the local level?
To be vintage it must be older than me!
The next gun I buy will be the next to last gun I ever buy. PROMISE!
jim

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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Even Hitler spent time in jail for his Beer Hall Putsch. Also Germany had more than two political parties in the Reichstag so it was hard to get a majority on anything. Also the Nazi party was able to get Hermann Goring elected as the President of the Reichstag. Similar to McCarthy as Speaker of the House. He was able to control what happened and how votes were held in the Reichstag.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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Greengunner wrote: Tue Mar 07, 2023 2:20 pm
Nothing like this has happened before. We are on the thinnest ice imaginable. If he doesn’t end up behind bars (he won’t) it will send a message that our democracy is fair game for anyone strong enough to take it. The anti democracy movement is strong and unbowed.

Many will accuse me of hyperbole but I honestly think our days as a democracy are numbered.
I do not think that is hyperbole. I don't think double-T's analogy to Hitler is hyperbole, either.

I do engage in spirited debate with people I disagree with, and I don't end friendships with people for being conservatives or republicans. But my personal policy is, anyone who supports the insurrection is dead to me.

I'm a survivor of violent crime, I know what trouble looks like, and my opinion is, that's what's coming. Project 538 is saying that 52% of Americans disapprove of TOS, 43% of Americans support him (averaging what they feel are the most accurate polls) and the 43% are far more likely to be armed than the 52%. That's a fucking emergency.

I still do not think indictment and prosecution are futile. I don't think home defense or ownership of firearms is futile, either. If we consider the psychology of angry mobs and gangs, you generally have different strategies for the go-hards and the go-alongs. I think legal action will have a deterrent effect on the go-alongs, and it will hurt them more than it will embolden the go-hards, who are already in up to their necks. At this point, we have to exploit every potential advantage.

I wish I had hopes for something better than a slow-rolling soft secession, but in some ways, that looks like the least-bad of a lot of shitty options.

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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Allow me to offer an alternate POV.
What we see of the world is largely colored by stories in the media these days. But that is a curated view of our country, not the actual story. And whether you watch Fox News or CNN, the basic premise is the same: there are stories of fear, outrage and danger from the other side to catch your eyeballs for ad revenue. Simple as that.

While it is certainly true that anyone could whip up a mob with enough scary words, it still takes a lot of blind eyeballs to ignore what’s actually going on in our country. That story is fundamentally not about liberal or conservative struggle nor even a racial divide. It is a class struggle. Enough Americans start seeing that the game is rigged by the wealthy elite siphoning more of this country’s resources is when the conflict between Americans will effectively end…
Ask the young. They are already quietly moving toward creating that consciousness.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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Bisbee wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 3:26 am Allow me to offer an alternate POV.
What we see of the world is largely colored by stories in the media these days. But that is a curated view of our country, not the actual story. And whether you watch Fox News or CNN, the basic premise is the same: there are stories of fear, outrage and danger from the other side to catch your eyeballs for ad revenue. Simple as that.

While it is certainly true that anyone could whip up a mob with enough scary words, it still takes a lot of blind eyeballs to ignore what’s actually going on in our country. That story is fundamentally not about liberal or conservative struggle nor even a racial divide. It is a class struggle. Enough Americans start seeing that the game is rigged by the wealthy elite siphoning more of this country’s resources is when the conflict between Americans will effectively end…
Ask the young. They are already quietly moving toward creating that consciousness.
Agree. Been wondering when someone would start waking up.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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sikacz wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:07 am
Bisbee wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 3:26 am Allow me to offer an alternate POV.
What we see of the world is largely colored by stories in the media these days. But that is a curated view of our country, not the actual story. And whether you watch Fox News or CNN, the basic premise is the same: there are stories of fear, outrage and danger from the other side to catch your eyeballs for ad revenue. Simple as that.

While it is certainly true that anyone could whip up a mob with enough scary words, it still takes a lot of blind eyeballs to ignore what’s actually going on in our country. That story is fundamentally not about liberal or conservative struggle nor even a racial divide. It is a class struggle. Enough Americans start seeing that the game is rigged by the wealthy elite siphoning more of this country’s resources is when the conflict between Americans will effectively end…
Ask the young. They are already quietly moving toward creating that consciousness.
Agree. Been wondering when someone would start waking up.
Yup, good points Bisbee. The political drama we see on TV is stage managed by the two political parties that are funded by the wealthy and corporations. It's always been class warfare, but the two parties both claim they represent the underclass - the working class and the middle class. The obsession on Trump and whether he's indicted and convicted, is just a distraction. Personally I have better things to do than obsess on things I can't control.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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highdesert wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:20 am
sikacz wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 6:07 am
Bisbee wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 3:26 am Allow me to offer an alternate POV.
What we see of the world is largely colored by stories in the media these days. But that is a curated view of our country, not the actual story. And whether you watch Fox News or CNN, the basic premise is the same: there are stories of fear, outrage and danger from the other side to catch your eyeballs for ad revenue. Simple as that.

While it is certainly true that anyone could whip up a mob with enough scary words, it still takes a lot of blind eyeballs to ignore what’s actually going on in our country. That story is fundamentally not about liberal or conservative struggle nor even a racial divide. It is a class struggle. Enough Americans start seeing that the game is rigged by the wealthy elite siphoning more of this country’s resources is when the conflict between Americans will effectively end…
Ask the young. They are already quietly moving toward creating that consciousness.
Agree. Been wondering when someone would start waking up.
Yup, good points Bisbee. The political drama we see on TV is stage managed by the two political parties that are funded by the wealthy and corporations. It's always been class warfare, but the two parties both claim they represent the underclass - the working class and the middle class. The obsession on Trump and whether he's indicted and convicted, is just a distraction. Personally I have better things to do than obsess on things I can't control.
Same.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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sig230 wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:56 am And thus it shall be until Citizens United is buried at the crossroad with a stake through its heart.

Those who think that Citizens United could peacefully get repealed, step to the far left.
You may be right that this won’t end well. Nothing I can do at this point except wait. Neither main party seems interested in repealing it.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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sikacz wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:56 am
sig230 wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:56 am And thus it shall be until Citizens United is buried at the crossroad with a stake through its heart.

Those who think that Citizens United could peacefully get repealed, step to the far left.
You may be right that this won’t end well. Nothing I can do at this point except wait. Neither main party seems interested in repealing it.
I agree the parties aren't interested having it reversed by SCOTUS, because it not only affects corporate giving but reversing it would block labor unions from funding the DNC.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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highdesert wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:10 am
sikacz wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 9:56 am
sig230 wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 7:56 am And thus it shall be until Citizens United is buried at the crossroad with a stake through its heart.

Those who think that Citizens United could peacefully get repealed, step to the far left.
You may be right that this won’t end well. Nothing I can do at this point except wait. Neither main party seems interested in repealing it.
I agree the parties aren't interested having it reversed by SCOTUS, because it not only affects corporate giving but reversing it would block labor unions from funding the DNC.
It amazes me that labor still backs the dems considering how much neoliberals cater to business. There really should be a labor party among others.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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Of course the major parties don't want to see Citizens United reversed/repealed because that would be killing the Cash Cow for both parties. They would have to start really working for the people.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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Bisbee wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 3:26 am Allow me to offer an alternate POV.
What we see of the world is largely colored by stories in the media these days. But that is a curated view of our country, not the actual story. And whether you watch Fox News or CNN, the basic premise is the same: there are stories of fear, outrage and danger from the other side to catch your eyeballs for ad revenue. Simple as that.

While it is certainly true that anyone could whip up a mob with enough scary words, it still takes a lot of blind eyeballs to ignore what’s actually going on in our country. That story is fundamentally not about liberal or conservative struggle nor even a racial divide. It is a class struggle. Enough Americans start seeing that the game is rigged by the wealthy elite siphoning more of this country’s resources is when the conflict between Americans will effectively end…
Ask the young. They are already quietly moving toward creating that consciousness.
I agree that young people today do inspire a lot of hope. The "media coloring" would have us believe that young people are all entitled, navel-gazing, parental-basement dwelling do-nothings with no interest in the real world, which is far from the reality I see every day.

The young people I work with? Yeah, they dabble in Tik Tok, and sometimes have an unhealthy relationship with other social media, but their attitude towards it reminds me of the way black folk in the inner city felt about crack cocaine in the '80s: "Who brought this shit into my neighborhood?" They know very well who the dope man is, and they don't want to get hooked-- and they know where the money's going and don't want to pay. So I agree about the class warfare part, too.

The problem is, that warfare is getting baked into our social, cultural, political, and religious institutions. We need more than consciousness raising, though I think young people understand that, too. Even if all the old farts pitch in and help them figure out exactly where to shove the monkey wrench when they get deep enough inside the sausage factory-- and that pretty much sums up my non-retirement plan-- it's still fiendishly complicated, often thankless work.

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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sikacz wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:53 am
TrueTexan wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:17 am Of course the major parties don't want to see Citizens United reversed/repealed because that would be killing the Cash Cow for both parties. They would have to start really working for the people.
Exactly.
Agree, it's easier for Dems to blame Reps and Reps to blame Dems. They're never wrong, it's the other party's fault. Sounds a lot like Trump who never takes responsibility for his actions.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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highdesert wrote: Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:01 am
sikacz wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:53 am
TrueTexan wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:17 am Of course the major parties don't want to see Citizens United reversed/repealed because that would be killing the Cash Cow for both parties. They would have to start really working for the people.
Exactly.
Agree, it's easier for Dems to blame Reps and Reps to blame Dems. They're never wrong, it's the other party's fault. Sounds a lot like Trump who never takes responsibility for his actions.
One of the most damning comments I remember Trump uttering was that he has never taken personal bankruptcy. What's scary is that I have often heard that repeated by his supporters as a positive trait and they don't seem to understand what he is saying is fxxk you, I got mine and your little dog too.

Before there can be any hope of repealing Citizens United (another example of dishonest labels) there needs to be some glimmer of signs his supporters even understand they are getting screwed.
To be vintage it must be older than me!
The next gun I buy will be the next to last gun I ever buy. PROMISE!
jim

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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The Manhattan district attorney’s office recently signaled to Donald J. Trump’s lawyers that he could face criminal charges for his role in the payment of hush money to a porn star, the strongest indication yet that prosecutors are nearing an indictment of the former president, according to four people with knowledge of the matter. The prosecutors offered Mr. Trump the chance to testify next week before the grand jury that has been hearing evidence in the potential case, the people said. Such offers almost always indicate an indictment is close; it would be unusual for the district attorney, Alvin L. Bragg, to notify a potential defendant without ultimately seeking charges against him. In New York, potential defendants have the right to answer questions in the grand jury before they are indicted, but they rarely testify, and Mr. Trump is likely to decline the offer. His lawyers could also meet privately with the prosecutors in hopes of fending off criminal charges.
In New York, falsifying business records can amount to a crime, albeit a misdemeanor. To elevate the crime to a felony charge, Mr. Bragg’s prosecutors must show that Mr. Trump’s “intent to defraud” included an intent to commit or conceal a second crime. In this case, that second crime could be a violation of New York State election law. While hush money is not inherently illegal, the prosecutors could argue that the $130,000 payout effectively became an improper donation to Mr. Trump’s campaign, under the theory that because the money silenced Ms. Daniels, it benefited his candidacy. Combining the criminal charge with a violation of state election law would be a novel legal theory for any criminal case, let alone one against the former president, raising the possibility that a judge or appellate court could throw it out or reduce the felony charge to a misdemeanor.
In recent years, Mr. Trump has been wary of answering questions under oath, given the legal intrigue swirling around him. When the New York attorney general deposed him last year in a civil case, Mr. Trump refused to provide any information, availing himself of his Fifth Amendment right to refuse to answer questions more than 400 times over the course of four hours. If he testifies about the hush money to this grand jury, he will not have that option.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/09/nyre ... bragg.html

Doubt that this case will derail Trump's campaign to get the Republican nomination. He'll just say to his followers that three Democratic prosecutors are persecuting him to benefit Biden's reelection. He'll say something like, "Today it's me, tomorrow it's you."
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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highdesert wrote: Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:36 am
The Manhattan district attorney’s office recently signaled to Donald J. Trump’s lawyers that he could face criminal charges for his role in the payment of hush money to a porn star, the strongest indication yet that prosecutors are nearing an indictment of the former president, according to four people with knowledge of the matter.
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Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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Hopefully indictments will befall this turd in a cascade from all jurisdictions weekly for next few months. Just drop one on him and the rest will follow. Pit and the pendulum or Chinese water drip, drip, drip torture. His bad karma fills my heart with glee. FDT
"Being Republican is more than a difference of opinion - it's a character flaw." "COVID can fix STUPID!"
The greatest, most aggrieved mistake EVER made in USA was electing DJT as POTUS.

Re: Orange spirochete indictment thread

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Meanwhile, Trump lawyers have been caught trying to use double-booking of federal and state trials to delay both, hoping to push them well into the 2024 campaign season to delay even further. Apparently this has pissed off at least one judge who ORDERED his lawyers to explain themselves by this coming Wednesday, 15 March.
It was reported by a lawyer for an unrelated case, a lawsuit against Trump, Ivanka, Eric, and Jr, for knowingly selling investments to her clients for a product they KNEW was inferior and a bad investment.

It was described by an analyst like a kid asking one parent if it was OK, getting a "no" then asking the other to get a "yes"....and when both parents figured it out, Game Over!
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

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