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San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:58 pm
by TrueTexan
The San Francisco Police Department is currently petitioning the city's Board of Supervisors for permission to deploy robots to kill suspects that law enforcement deems a sufficient threat that the "risk of loss of life to members of the public or officers is imminent and outweighs any other force option available to SFPD." The draft policy, which was written by the SFPD itself, also seeks to exclude "hundreds of assault rifles from its inventory of military-style weapons and for not include personnel costs in the price of its weapons," according to a report from Mission Local.

As Mission Local notes, this proposal has already seen significant opposition from both within and without the Board. Supervisor Aaron Peskin, initially pushed back against the use of force requirements, inserting “Robots shall not be used as a Use of Force against any person," into the policy language. The SFPD removed that wording in a subsequent draft, which I as a lifelong San Francisco resident did not know was something that they could just do. The three-member Rules Committee, which Peskin chairs, then unanimously approved that draft and advanced it to the full Board of Supervisors for a vote on November 29th. Peskin excused his decision by claiming that “there could be scenarios where deployment of lethal force was the only option.”
Full story:https://www.engadget.com/san-francisco- ... 14906.html

What's next killer drones?

Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:38 pm
by jc57
This could not possibly ever go wrong.

Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:44 pm
by sikacz
Well it’s our culture of violence, everything can be solved with force. No attempt at a peaceful nonviolent resolution. It’s no wonder we have a violence problem, it’s condoned at all levels.

Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:54 pm
by Bisbee
I still remember the huge debate that happened on this forum when a bomb-disposal robot was used to carry explosives toward a sniper that was targeting police officers in Dallas, Texas. They successfully killed him with that robotic bomb.

That was 2016.

Now technological advances have provided drones that can move many times faster than tracked bomb-disposal robot and can carry explosives to drop on top of targets. Never forget that police bombed black activists (MOVE) in Philadelphia, burning down an entire neighborhood. The Police dropped bombs from a helecopter in 1985!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X03ErYGB4Kk

Don’t imagine that permission to used weapons delivered by robots or drones will not lead to less violence. Quite the opposite. When police feel safe to employ violence, or kill, with impunity things will get worse in society, not better.

Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:10 pm
by tonguengroover
SFPD does do peaceful resolutions in stand off situations as do all police depts. I'm all for saving LEO's lives in situations where there could be booby traps with explosives in stand off situations.
They don't just willy nilly send in robots to blow people up. Jesus.
Crisis Intervention Team (CIT)
Improving our response to crises involving the mentally ill
Public safety incidents involving the mentally ill have been increasing in recent years, posing a serious challenge for the police and our community. From January 1, 2019 through December 31, 2019, SFPD received 21,860 calls for help in cases involving a person in a behavioral or mental health crisis. These types of incidents include attempted suicides, suspects brandishing weapons, a mentally disturbed person, and youth who are out of their parent’s control. During the same period, SFPD received an additional 28,980 calls to check on the well-being of individuals in distress. Examples of this include someone found lying in the street, running in and out of traffic or believed to be isolated in an apartment.
https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/your ... n-team-cit
San Francisco's New Street Crisis Response Team Launches Today
Monday, November 30, 2020
Partnership between the Department of Public Health and Fire Department begins with first SCRT Team on the street today with more teams to come as pilot ramps up. SCRT offers a non-police response to calls related to people suffering from mental health and substance use issues on City streets.
San Francisco, CA — Mayor London N. Breed today announced the launch of the first phase of San Francisco’s Street Crisis Response Team (SCRT) pilot program. The first team will begin responding to 911 calls regarding people experiencing behavioral health crises today. The Street Crisis Response Team is part of San Francisco’s efforts to develop alternatives to police responses to non-violent calls, which advances the Mayor’s roadmap to fundamentally change the way that the City handles public safety, and is also a major step in implementing Mental Health SF.

The SCRT pilot program is a collaboration between the San Francisco Department of Public Health and the San Francisco Fire Department with significant support from the Department of Emergency Management. The San Francisco Police Department will also be a key partner in the transition of certain types of 911 calls to the new teams. Each team includes a community paramedic, a behavioral health clinician, and a behavioral health peer specialist. The goal of the new program is to provide an appropriate non-law enforcement response to behavioral health emergencies in San Francisco and divert individuals in crisis away from emergency rooms and criminal legal settings into behavioral health treatment. The SCRT aims to provide trauma-informed clinical interventions and care coordination for people who experience behavioral health crises on the streets of San Francisco.

“This new program can help us break the cycle that all too often keeps people going in and out of our emergency rooms or our jails. When the Street Crisis Response Team responds to a call for someone in crisis, they’ll be able to help with compassion and clinical skills to get people the care and support they need,” said Mayor Breed. “Changing the way we respond to non-violent calls is going to take work and it’s going to take time. The SCRT is an important first step in our long-term effort to change how we respond to people suffering on our streets.”
https://sfmayor.org/article/san-francis ... ches-today

Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:08 pm
by Bisbee
Never forget the moral of Robocop…

Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 1:17 pm
by papajim2jordan
All good and no evil makes Earth a dull planet. Escalation is inevitable. Next up, Robocrook.

Conversely, with the responding officer out of danger, the usefulness of kill first is removed.

Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:30 pm
by wings
Dallas PD used a bomb-toting disposal robot to assassinate a suspect back in 2016. In their defense, it was a sniper attack on LEOs.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way ... ot-to-kill

I am philosophically opposed to the use of lethal force by a robot for law enforcement - the whole notion that human life is at risk requires that an actual human life be at risk bringing the suspect in. It's a very short road to Ed 209.

Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 7:00 pm
by tonguengroover
From what I understand - which isn't a lot depending on the time of day - a human must hit a button to initiate the kill with a robot. Robots don't pull the trigger on their own.
This isn't a science fiction movie.

Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 7:03 pm
by TrueTexan
tonguengroover wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 7:00 pm From what I understand - which isn't a lot depending on the time of day - a human must hit a button to initiate the kill with a robot. Robots don't pull the trigger on their own.
This isn't a science fiction movie.
But give someone a chance and they will apply AI to make the choice..

Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 7:08 pm
by wings
Most agencies have snipers to handle that task already. Asking a person to push that button when no human life is at immediate risk is reprehensible. Drone operators for the Air Force suffer guilt and PTSD as it is, and that's under wartime scenarios. Okay, Congressionally-authorized use of force.

Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:42 pm
by tonguengroover
You do not know they will pull the trigger when no human life is at immediate risk do you? Has anyone said that?
I'm certain there can and will be situations when a perpetrator needs to be taken out to save lives of innocents.
That's a judgement call they make for snipers too.
Ain't no difference.

Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:23 pm
by highdesert
They should be asking permission from the State of California, last I looked the various levels of murder were state crimes not city/county crimes.

Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:00 pm
by CDFingers
Yeah, "what could go wrong?"

Now, a guy like me will want the bot to have a sticky mesh net it could deploy to snag the bad guy and drag his sorry ass into a containment booth, or to carry tranq darts or what not. Not so sure that would happen. This new lethal bot is an unfortunate but entirely predictable evolution in law enforcement, citizens. hehe

CDFingers

Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:19 pm
by Bisbee
How’s about a bot that lays a thick cloud of THC around the perp and provide jelly doughnuts on a plexiglass-covered tray. Just make everything all nice and… hey man, like peace.

Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:53 pm
by CDFingers
"Duuuude..."

CDFingers

Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:21 pm
by tonguengroover
New gig for you Bisbee

Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:02 pm
by featureless
One step closer.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... bots-kill/

This is totally fucked up. Robot with non lethal is a wobbler. This will be abused and I can't fucking believe "our side" is pushing for and approving it.

Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:04 pm
by FrontSight
I'm not against this as a pure reflex, but I'm concerned. Love to hear more about how they intend to use these, and we need to hold them accountable. But we might as well get used to it, because this is the future.

Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:09 pm
by featureless
We'll, at least we won't have to worry about poor cops dying in no knock raids in the near future... Jesus fuck this is a horrible idea. Let's employ a military tactic with military equipment in our own cities against our own citizens (even if said citizen is a nut with a gun).

Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 12:38 pm
by INVICTVS138
wings wrote:Dallas PD used a bomb-toting disposal robot to assassinate a suspect back in 2016. In their defense, it was a sniper attack on LEOs.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way ... ot-to-kill

I am philosophically opposed to the use of lethal force by a robot for law enforcement - the whole notion that human life is at risk requires that an actual human life be at risk bringing the suspect in. It's a very short road to Ed 209.
Image
This type of thing never ends well …


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Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:07 pm
by Wino
I'm all for it. I hope they have to use it to extract turd from Mar-A-Lardo after his indictments.

In all seriousness - yes, there is always a chance it could/will be misused, but I believe it is a viable option in extenuating circumstances - Dallas was one of those. No different than robots being used to disarm or detonate IED's.

Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:40 pm
by TrueTexan
These robots aren’t autonomous with AI. They are a ground drone under control of a remote operator. I wonder what will be next Air Drones with Hellfire missiles? I’m sure we have a military surplus of them not being sent to the Ukraine.

Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:56 pm
by featureless
TrueTexan wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 1:40 pm These robots aren’t autonomous with AI.
Doesn't matter. Remote killing seems to go against imminent threat to life and would therefore be murder in a civilian setting. Even bad people have the right to trial.

Re: San Francisco police seek permission for its robots to use deadly force

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2022 2:11 pm
by papajim2jordan