Dow drops a thou

So many executive orders, so much twitter. What to do? Well, discuss it here for one...

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#401 Post by kronkmusic » Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:55 am

Well we know god don't carry a Glock

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#402 Post by TrueTexan » Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:04 am

lurker wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:22 am
CDFingers wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:29 am Sometimes I wonder whether god has a Vaquero in .45LC.
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she does, a brace of them. st browning is in charge of autoloaders.
She knows .45 caliber because it is stupid to have to shoot twice. :D
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Re: Dow drops a thou

#403 Post by TrueTexan » Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:56 am

The Trump White House wants to exploit the coronavirus crisis to give a huge gift to rich investors

As desperate workers, the unemployed, and small businesses struggle to obtain benefits authorized under the multi-trillion-dollar coronavirus stimulus package President Donald Trump signed into law late last month, the White House is reportedly considering an additional slate of aid measures that critics say would disproportionately favor the wealthy while providing little relief for those most in need.

The Washington Post, citing two anonymous officials familiar with White House discussions, reported late Sunday that the Trump administration is weighing “a payroll-tax cut, a capital-gains tax cut, creating 50-year Treasury bonds to lock in low interest rates, and a waiver that would clear businesses of liability from employees who contract the coronavirus on the job.”

Trump is also considering an infrastructure package, according to the Post, but the idea faces internal opposition from top advisers.

Slashing the capital gains tax, a move that would overwhelmingly reward rich investors, has long been an obsession of the Trump White House and congressional Republicans. Last year, as Common Dreams reported, Trump floated the idea of bypassing Congress to index capital gains to inflation, but never acted amid warnings that such a unilateral change would be illegal.

The Center on Budget and Policy Priorities estimated in a 2018 analysis that 86% of the benefits of indexing capital gains to inflation would flow to the top 1%.

A capital gains tax cut would be smash-and-grab economics with no value to the economic and medical calamity facing us,” tweeted HuffPost senior reporter Zach Carter.

Critics also took aim at the other proposals under consideration inside the Trump White House, including the waiver relieving businesses of liability for workers who get sick on the job.

“Won’t somebody please think of the employers who want to coerce their employees into accepting life-threatening workplace conditions without facing legal liability,” New York magazine’s Eric Levitz tweeted sardonically.

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Freelance journalist Jon Walker called the Trump administration’s reported proposals “the worst possible set of ideas for dealing with a pandemic.”

“We are beyond parody at this point,” Walker wrote. “Making it easier for people to get sick at work. Rewarding people for going into work. Rewarding vulture capitalists profiting off a crisis.”

White House deliberations over a fresh coronavirus aid package comes as the mammoth legislation Trump signed late last month is failing to get much-needed relief into the hands of people and small businesses, vindicating progressives’ warnings that the package amounted to little more than a massive bailout for big corporations replete with goodies for the well-off.

On Friday, the Trump administration launched the $350 billion small business relief program authorized under the $4.5 trillion stimulus package. But the rollout was disastrous as small businesses struggled to apply for loans and some of the biggest banks in the country sat out the process entirely as the Treasury Department failed to provide adequate guidance.

“The estimate is there are 30 million small businesses out there,” wrote David Dayen, executive editor of The American Prospect. “About 4.5% of all of them will have a chance to get relief. Half of small businesses haven’t paid rent in April, which if I’m doing the math correctly is more than 4.5%. And millions of them will have no federal help, no customers, and really no hope.”
https://www.alternet.org/2020/04/the-tr ... investors/
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Re: Dow drops a thou

#404 Post by TrueTexan » Tue Apr 07, 2020 2:30 pm

The Dow Jones is up. I guess the Wall Street Mob is expecting Trump to give them more tac cuts as he has proposed.
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Re: Dow drops a thou

#405 Post by TrueTexan » Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:15 pm

Well at close the Dow lost again, after a session of pump and dump..

The Bailout funds needs restrictions on who gets the funds. Vampire Capitalist, Wall Street Bankers and investors should be excluded.
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Re: Dow drops a thou

#406 Post by kronkmusic » Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:18 pm

TrueTexan wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:15 pm Well at close the Dow lost again, after a session of pump and dump..

The Bailout funds needs restrictions on who gets the funds. Vampire Capitalist, Wall Street Bankers and investors should be excluded.
Hah! With the firing of the inspector general in charge of oversight and his replacement with a lackey, Trump just effectively turned that $2trillion into a slush fund for him and his donor buddies. For those paying attention, this is essentially how Putin became a dictator.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#407 Post by TrueTexan » Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:43 pm

kronkmusic wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:18 pm
TrueTexan wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:15 pm Well at close the Dow lost again, after a session of pump and dump..

The Bailout funds needs restrictions on who gets the funds. Vampire Capitalist, Wall Street Bankers and investors should be excluded.
Hah! With the firing of the inspector general in charge of oversight and his replacement with a lackey, Trump just effectively turned that $2trillion into a slush fund for him and his donor buddies. For those paying attention, this is essentially how Putin became a dictator.
No argument here except Putin had the backing of the former KGB, GRU and the Oligarchs that had stolen everything they could from the collapse of the Soviet State.
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Re: Dow drops a thou

#408 Post by CDFingers » Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:59 pm

Traders love extreme volatility.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#409 Post by sig230 » Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:14 pm

TrueTexan wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:43 pm
kronkmusic wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:18 pm
TrueTexan wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:15 pm Well at close the Dow lost again, after a session of pump and dump..

The Bailout funds needs restrictions on who gets the funds. Vampire Capitalist, Wall Street Bankers and investors should be excluded.
Hah! With the firing of the inspector general in charge of oversight and his replacement with a lackey, Trump just effectively turned that $2trillion into a slush fund for him and his donor buddies. For those paying attention, this is essentially how Putin became a dictator.
No argument here except Putin had the backing of the former KGB, GRU and the Oligarchs that had stolen everything they could from the collapse of the Soviet State.
Remember Putin WAS the KGB. Different OJT than what Trump experienced.
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Re: Dow drops a thou

#410 Post by kronkmusic » Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:21 pm


TrueTexan wrote:
kronkmusic wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:18 pm
TrueTexan wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 4:15 pm Well at close the Dow lost again, after a session of pump and dump..

The Bailout funds needs restrictions on who gets the funds. Vampire Capitalist, Wall Street Bankers and investors should be excluded.
Hah! With the firing of the inspector general in charge of oversight and his replacement with a lackey, Trump just effectively turned that $2trillion into a slush fund for him and his donor buddies. For those paying attention, this is essentially how Putin became a dictator.
No argument here except Putin had the backing of the former KGB, GRU and the Oligarchs that had stolen everything they could from the collapse of the Soviet State.
Just like Trump has the backing of the police unions, many of the generals and most of the billionaires. In all fairness, the part about the generals is speculation, the only general I ever knew would never talk politics with me and I suspect most of them are like that, so it's hard to know where they stand.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#411 Post by lurker » Tue Apr 07, 2020 5:50 pm

i doubt i've ever met, much less can claim to know, a general. some of y'all appear to live in a different world.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#412 Post by kronkmusic » Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:05 pm

lurker wrote:i doubt i've ever met, much less can claim to know, a general. some of y'all appear to live in a different world.
South Florida is crazy, lots of rich and powerful people down here, more than one would even suspect. The one I knew just happened to be the dad of a buddy of mine from high school. We used to get drunk at his house all the time back in the day. Nice guy overall.

I also remember as a young kid my mom having to show her ID to Secret Service agents on my way home from school one day. Al Gore, when he was the Vice President, was having dinner at one of our neighbor's houses. We didn't know that family personally but we knew who they were. We weren't that rich, at least not compared to our neighbors, my dad was an optometrist and my mom was a public school teacher. We bought into the neighborhood early before prices really got up there, and we were definitely the "poorest" family in the entire neighborhood by the time we left. It used to be undeveloped land and cow pastures way back in the day, too far from Ft. Lauderdale for anyone to notice, now I don't think you could buy a house anywhere in that city for under $1mil. Hell, I don't think you could buy land for much less than that.

I'm talking about Parkland by the way, where the shooting at MSD High School (my high school) happened, which is why I knew stuff was gonna start to happen after that shooting, the families there all have money and political connections and the housewives have nothing but time on their hands.



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Re: Dow drops a thou

#413 Post by lurker » Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:40 pm

kronkmusic wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 6:05 pm South Florida is crazy,
interesting. i grew up in central florida in a little town outside orlando, population 600. my dad (a ww2 vet) worked in aerospace, well off for the time and place, white collar but still working class. there were a few wealthy people around the lake but i didn't know them personally, or i just wasn't interested. went to high school in the 60s in winter garden with hicks and rednecks. yes, they had guns in the back windows of their pickups. nobody thought a thing about it. about the time i went off to college Disney came and worked his magic. we could just see the castle across the lake and beyond the orange groves, and when the wind was right we'd be reminded that "it's a small world after all". the world was transformed and i sensed it every time i came home from school. since my parents are gone i won't be going back, nor will i miss it. what i do miss is the sense of openness, and a sense that a person's worth, wealthy or poor, is defined by what they accomplish with what they have, and how they treat others.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#414 Post by CDFingers » Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:29 pm

Y'all know this means trouble, eh.
The Federal Reserve dramatically expanded its efforts to save the economy, even adding junk bonds to the list of assets it can buy, as a wave of businesses are anticipated to have trouble surviving the expected recession.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/04/09/fed ... bonds.html

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#415 Post by highdesert » Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:02 pm

CDFingers wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 1:29 pm Y'all know this means trouble, eh.
The Federal Reserve dramatically expanded its efforts to save the economy, even adding junk bonds to the list of assets it can buy, as a wave of businesses are anticipated to have trouble surviving the expected recession.
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/04/09/fed ... bonds.html

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Stocks jumped, Treasury yields rose and the dollar sagged after the Fed said it would would provide $2.3 trillion in programs that expand its operations to reach small and midsized businesses and U.S. cities and states.
The Fed also said it would create a new Municipal Liquidity Facility that will offer states and municipalities up to $500 billion in lending, and it will be backstopped with $35 billion from the Treasury to protect it from potential losses.
Spending money like a drunken sailor - cities and states do need help.

With junk bonds like junk loans, Great Recession here we come.
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Re: Dow drops a thou

#416 Post by YankeeTarheel » Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:07 pm

This is actually a good move...putting money where it's actually needed, in the hands of state governors trying to find money to buy equipment, instead of half a trillion wasted, for Trump to steal with no recourse. WHICH HE WILL! And how it will be stolen will be completely hidden---that's why he's firing all the Inspectors General.
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Re: Dow drops a thou

#417 Post by TrueTexan » Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:07 pm

Just think how much better it would be if the treasury department just portion out that 2.3 trillion to the bottom 90 percent of Americans.
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Re: Dow drops a thou

#418 Post by TrueTexan » Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:25 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote: Thu Apr 09, 2020 2:07 pm This is actually a good move...putting money where it's actually needed, in the hands of state governors trying to find money to buy equipment, instead of half a trillion wasted, for Trump to steal with no recourse. WHICH HE WILL! And how it will be stolen will be completely hidden---that's why he's firing all the Inspectors General.
If it went to the state and local governments, how much of that money would go where it was needed rather than the pockets of the states wealthy Friends and Buddies of the Governor or legislature that would pass bills giving it to their friends via crappy contracts for worthless projects.

I wouldn't trust one of the Three Stooges in Austin to handle any money. The AG Ken Paxton is still awaiting trail for defrauding investors as a financial advisor selling crappy investments.

Can you see the Georgia legislature voting to send money to help the poor black areas hit the hardest by the pandemic. Same for most red states.
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Re: Dow drops a thou

#419 Post by CDFingers » Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:59 am

Dropped a thou at about 8 am this morning.

Hang on tight, kids. Now we see that many states opened too early. We'll have to go back inside. Economy again will crater, market again crash.

Whooo eeee,

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#420 Post by Bucolic » Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:26 am

I’ve been up and down so much these days that I get the bends.

Prior to today’s little excursion into the red zone, I was basically back to pre-Covid levels.


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Re: Dow drops a thou

#421 Post by highdesert » Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:43 am

Yup, up go the cases and down goes the stock market.
US stocks tumbled in New York, with the Dow (INDU) falling 1,038 points, or 3.8% around mid-morning. The S&P 500 (SPX) plummeted 3.3%, and the Nasdaq Composite (COMP) fell 2.5%. The Nasdaq had soared to all-time highs on each of the past three sessions and climbed above 10,000 points for the first time ever. US crude oil prices dropped more than 7%, to $36.66 per barrel.

The rising number of coronavirus cases in the United States has unnerved Wall Street. A second wave of infections could force many businesses to close again just after they reopened. Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell said Wednesday that the economic future was highly uncertain. Although Powell acknowledged that the May jobs report, which showed a 2.5 million jobs added to the economy, was a welcome surprise, he noted that many millions of Americans will never go back to their jobs and could remain unemployed for years.

Another 1.5 million Americans filed for first-time unemployment benefits last week, data from the Department of Labor showed Thursday. The number of continuing jobless claims, counting people who have applied for benefits for at least two weeks in a row, remains above 20 million.
Since Memorial Day on May 25, the number of coronavirus hospitalizations has gone up in at least a dozen US states, according to data CNN aggregated from the Covid Tracking Project. They are Alaska, Arkansas, Arizona, California, Kentucky, Mississippi, Montana, North Carolina, Oregon, South Carolina, Texas and Utah.

As states across the country reopen their economies, people are being forced to live alongside the virus. A closely watched coronavirus model from the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington was updated on Wednesday is now forecasting nearly 170,000 coronavirus deaths in the United States by October 1.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/11/investin ... index.html
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Re: Dow drops a thou

#422 Post by sig230 » Thu Jun 11, 2020 12:09 pm

Hospitalizations are also up and even if a business is open if the employees are sick or quarantined it hurts profits.
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Re: Dow drops a thou

#423 Post by CDFingers » Thu Jun 11, 2020 3:00 pm

Whether a state formally "closes" will be irrelevant. If people are dying and can be counted and viewed over the Internet, people will stay home. Without cash flow of consumerism, the economy will, shall we say, slow down.

Pandemic is a decent time to start a new business. Really.

https://www.fastcompany.com/90484533/3- ... f-covid-19

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#424 Post by YankeeTarheel » Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:03 pm

2 days ago it closed down 30 points, yesterday 300 points, today, 1861 points--2,200 points in 3 closes.
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Re: Dow drops a thou

#425 Post by TrueTexan » Thu Jun 11, 2020 5:25 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:03 pm 2 days ago it closed down 30 points, yesterday 300 points, today, 1861 points--2,200 points in 3 closes.
That may be just the start
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Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired.-Swift

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