Dow drops a thou

So many executive orders, so much twitter. What to do? Well, discuss it here for one...

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lurker
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Re: Dow drops a thou

#326 Post by lurker » Sat Mar 21, 2020 9:01 am

CDFingers wrote: Sat Mar 21, 2020 8:22 am
lurker wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 4:02 pm
geno wrote: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:50 pm I must admit, I'm puzzled by one thing: " and a 289" did you mean 283? 289 was a Ford.
ladies and gentlemen, i believe we are in the presence of a motorhead. :bow:
Right you are! The 289 was in the Mustang. Still wish I had that Persian carpet, though. That straight 6 sat between the driver seat and passenger seat, though the girls liked to ride on the engine compartment. Days before seat belt laws. I am so thankful I never killed anyone with our unsafe passenger stacking. Recalling those thrilling days of yesteryear when we'd all get in the van and go to the drive in movies! Fun times.
my parents had one of those with the big box between the front seats. now that i think on it, i had another one later, a '75 i think, blue longbed, 6 cyl w/ three in the tree. naturally i called that one the "Great Blue Whale". some kind of whale fixation i guess. i had a job and a little more money then, so i paneled and carpeted the interior.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#327 Post by kronkmusic » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:10 pm

Futures markets hit their 5% downward limit today within about 3 minutes of markets opening. I'm not sure if that's a record, but it's gotta be close. Tomorrow is going to be interesting to say the least.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#328 Post by Stiff » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:16 pm

Tomorrow it’s gonna fall like it’s 2008.
When the ignorant are united and the informed are divided, the result is an idiocracy.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#329 Post by featureless » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:18 pm

Stiff wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:16 pm Tomorrow it’s gonna fall like it’s 2008.
Hasn't it been doing that for 2 weeks?

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#330 Post by kronkmusic » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:36 pm

They just shut down all non-essential businesses in my county as of midnight tonight. We're the most populous county in Florida and it means the other two South Florida counties are soon to follow, which would account for over 6 million people. This drop hasn't even started yet, we're still on the cliff with our toes hanging off.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#331 Post by featureless » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:40 pm

Yeppers

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#332 Post by Stiff » Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:55 pm

featureless wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:18 pm
Stiff wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:16 pm Tomorrow it’s gonna fall like it’s 2008.
Hasn't it been doing that for 2 weeks?
It slowed down a bit last week. This monday it’s gonna drop again.
When the ignorant are united and the informed are divided, the result is an idiocracy.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#333 Post by K9s » Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:00 pm

kronkmusic wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:10 pm Futures markets hit their 5% downward limit today within about 3 minutes of markets opening. I'm not sure if that's a record, but it's gotta be close. Tomorrow is going to be interesting to say the least.
No bailout bill means stocks will continue to drop. I assume McConnell is timing it for his hedge fund manager donors. Why wouldn't he?

The GOP knows that they have another week before mortgage & credit card payments are missed and banks will hurt. They played chicken with the government shutdown and lost. Now they are playing chicken with the economy.

Problem for the GOP: Most Americans have little more to lose if they lose jobs with little hope for the future. Half the country has no assets or money, anyway. The middle class and upper middle class are the only ones who can be hurt after that.
The border between civilization and savagery is porous and patrolled by opportunists. Resist fascism. Vote like your democracy depends on it.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#334 Post by highdesert » Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:15 pm

The stimulus bill in the Senate.
While Republicans are urging quick action, Democrats argue that Republicans are prioritizing corporate industry over American workers in the legislation.

Democrats registered their frustration by lining up against a key procedural vote to advance the package. The vote was 47-47. Lawmakers needed to clear a 60-vote threshold to succeed.
The vote, originally set for 3 p.m. ET, was delayed until 6 p.m. as Democrats dug in against it and to allow for more time for negotiations. A final bipartisan deal to respond to the toll of the spread of coronavirus has not yet been reached, but talks are expected to continue into Sunday evening.

Senators were voting instead on a shell bill that Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is using as a placeholder until a final deal is reached. Further complicating matters, there are now five GOP senators in self-quarantine or isolation -- Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul, who has tested positive for coronavirus, as well as Sens. Mike Lee and Mitt Romney of Utah, Cory Gardner of Colorado and Rick Scott of Florida.

That means that the 53-47 GOP majority is now reduced to 48-47. A stimulus bill will need 60 votes to pass in the Senate, meaning it will have to have substantial bipartisan support to get to 60, but the diminishing vote strength of the majority is on the minds of Republicans negotiating with Democrats to approve this must-pass bill. Two senators introduced a bipartisan resolution on Thursday to amend the rules to allow senators to vote remotely during a national crisis, but McConnell has consistently opposed such a measure.
Minority Leader Chuck Schumer told reporters after the procedural vote was initially delayed that the legislation initially presented to Democrats had "many, many problems," saying that it "included a large corporate bailout provision with no protections for workers and virtually no oversight." Schumer said, however, that "Democrats want to move forward with bipartisan agreement," adding that the staff-level work is ongoing "to change some problematic provisions" with the legislation.
Democratic Sen. Elizabeth Warren echoed that message, saying that there is "great unhappiness" in the Democratic caucus about the proposal as it currently stands. The Massachusetts senator cited the proposed $500 billion fund for distressed companies, which she complained lacked restrictions. "This is not a bipartisan proposal," Warren said. "This is a Republican proposal."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/22/politics ... index.html
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#335 Post by K9s » Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:29 pm

highdesert wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:15 pm
Democratic Sen. Elizabeth Warren echoed that message, saying that there is "great unhappiness" in the Democratic caucus about the proposal as it currently stands. The Massachusetts senator cited the proposed $500 billion fund for distressed companies, which she complained lacked restrictions. "This is not a bipartisan proposal," Warren said. "This is a Republican proposal."
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/22/politics ... index.html
That half-trillion dollar fund is to be dispensed by Trump and Mnuchin with no restrictions at all. That means half goes to Goldman Sachs & friends and half to Trump Org & friends. It would be a completely legal for them to just give it to friends and family, too.

No money for schools or healthcare. Money for the oligarchs. Completely transparent and completely corrupt.
The border between civilization and savagery is porous and patrolled by opportunists. Resist fascism. Vote like your democracy depends on it.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#336 Post by CDFingers » Sun Mar 22, 2020 8:55 pm

Nancy may be able to leverage a deal that limits corporate bailout money going to ceo's and buybacks.

ETA:
Uncle Blazer @blakesmustache

Democrats are giving Trump two choices: (1) agree to a stimulus package without bailouts for himself and his corporate supporters, thereby dooming his re-election chances, or (2) get no deal at all, alienating everyone, and thereby dooming his re-election chances. Tough choice.
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Re: Dow drops a thou

#337 Post by sig230 » Sun Mar 22, 2020 9:27 pm

And Trump is doling out the goodies from the National Disaster Stockpile; which by the way was suggested by Hillary Clinton and created during the Bill Clinton Administration.
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Re: Dow drops a thou

#338 Post by kronkmusic » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:54 am

Markets slump again at open today after futures rallied late when Fed announced a policy of "unlimited" bond purchases to keep large corporations liquid. Dow will likely settle below 19,000 today, maybe lower.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#339 Post by CDFingers » Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:56 am

If only we could harvest the energy generated by see-sawing market indexes. Or the energy of a two year old on Chocolate-Frosted Sugar Bombs cereal.

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Wait until that Deal come 'round
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Re: Dow drops a thou

#340 Post by lurker » Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:07 am

CDFingers wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:56 am If only we could harvest the .... energy of a two year old on Chocolate-Frosted Sugar Bombs cereal.
patience.
after we don't need the respirators for covid-19 they'll implement this. and every year they'll up the age until they keep you in them till you're 18. and if (HA!) they can legislate you into breaking a law, the rest of your life. congratulations, you're no longer just a consumer, you're a contributing member of society/resource to be farmed.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#341 Post by YankeeTarheel » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:18 am

Today, the 50 day moving average broke below the 200 day moving average, about a week and a half since it broke through the 100 day moving average. This is bad, folks, really, really bad. Personally, I don't believe either the Fed nor Congress spending unprinted trillions can stop it.

Both Marx and Ayn Rand said in more than one way, Labor is the Source of All Wealth. And it's true. You don't make stuff, you don't grow stuff, you don't build stuff, you don't move stuff, then all the money is, well, toilet paper. During the 1923 German Hyper Inflation, people papered their walls with money because it was the cheapest wall-paper available.

Where Marx and Rand differed is that she saw the entrepreneur as a laborer as well, seeing Carnegie, Rockefeller, Ford, Firestone, Goodyear, Remington, and Rand (her pen name came from her Remington-Rand typewriter0 as laborers as well. Even J.P. Morgan.

But if people can't work, none of this matters, not one bit, and all they are doing is, as Mel Brooks put it "We have to protect our phony-boloney jobs!"
""If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -- LBJ

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#342 Post by CDFingers » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:37 am

YankeeTarheel wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:18 am--snip--During the 1923 German Hyper Inflation, people papered their walls with money because it was the cheapest wall-paper available.
That's the reason my dad came here in 1926 as a 7 year old illegal alien with his family. Only my grandfather had papers. It took them about 7 years for the rest to become legal: mom and two boys.

It is true that labor is the source of all wealth. We have to note that our republic was set up to protect a small minority owning the labor of a much larger number. Which is of suck. There's a yuge tendency for our .gov to suck up to the owners of the means of production because of this very reason--because some of the money from the sweat of the owned labor crosses the palms of the unscrupulous .gov suck ups. Which is of suck.

The media makes money from the tens of millions of reporters, camera operators, stage hands, printers, and key pokers whose sweat supports slime rats like Weinstein. That media makes money from this scene is why Bernie Sanders was marginalized. Which is of suck.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#343 Post by K9s » Mon Mar 23, 2020 2:43 pm

Image
The border between civilization and savagery is porous and patrolled by opportunists. Resist fascism. Vote like your democracy depends on it.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#344 Post by kronkmusic » Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:12 pm

K9s wrote:Image
Yup.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#345 Post by NegativeApproach » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:52 am

CDFingers wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 9:56 am If only we could harvest the energy generated by see-sawing market indexes. Or the energy of a two year old on Chocolate-Frosted Sugar Bombs cereal.

CDFingers
Good thing that we're now an "idea-driven" economy. I'm sure wall street can imagineer it's way to a brighter future!

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#346 Post by CDFingers » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:55 am

Futures up almost a thou, but there is as yet no bill. I hope Nancy plays hard ball and bails out the People first.

I expect wild see saws today, eh.

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No, no.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#347 Post by kronkmusic » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:38 am

Markets just broke 20,000. My gut tells me the majority of it is still algorithmic trading and a few large investors hoping to catch some normal people in the swing. A giant recovery bill means little if people aren't working and aren't going out and spending money and flying places and using hotels and eating at restaurants and going to concerts and sporting events, and it will mean less if people start doing those things prematurely and our healthcare system gets overwhelmed. But hey, that's just like, my opinion, man.

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#348 Post by YankeeTarheel » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:46 am

Actually, what the market does at the open is easily foreseen by how the FTSE, DAX and Nikkei all do beforehand. Since they were optimistic early this morning it was a no-brainer that it would go up. If Schumer, McConnell, and Mnuchin CAN cut a deal, you'll probably see it do well, but if they can't, if negotiations become more acrimonious, it will go down again. The stock market has lost all confidence in Trump, recognizing him as destructive and lacking in any real understanding in how markets, economies, and banking work.

They know that the bullshitter-in-chief can't bullshit his way past a brainless, relentless virus with bullshit, even though he cannot figure that out.
""If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -- LBJ

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Re: Dow drops a thou

#349 Post by TrueTexan » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:48 am

kronkmusic wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:38 am Markets just broke 20,000. My gut tells me the majority of it is still algorithmic trading and a few large investors hoping to catch some normal people in the swing. A giant recovery bill means little if people aren't working and aren't going out and spending money and flying places and using hotels and eating at restaurants and going to concerts and sporting events, and it will mean less if people start doing those things prematurely and our healthcare system gets overwhelmed. But hey, that's just like, my opinion, man.
I agree, But when you have the likes of Trump and TX Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick screaming to open the economy and damn what the effects will be the market will go up then it will fall faster and deeper than ever. I see the rise today as a grab and then a fall with profit taking.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
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Re: Dow drops a thou

#350 Post by kronkmusic » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:50 am

That's pretty much where I'm at with it TT

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