I hate this date

So many executive orders, so much twitter. What to do? Well, discuss it here for one...

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CDFingers
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I hate this date

Post by CDFingers »

I was ten. I yelled at my dad, "They can't do that!" who said, "They may not, but they can, and they did." He was very sad for many days. The horse with the backwards boots fucked me up for the rest of my life. I didn't understand the "why" of if, just the unfairness of it. The sixties began that day and did not end until Nixon resigned. For me, there are just two public days for which there was a "before" and an "after" that will never change for me. The other was 9/11. Sure, private days for all of us changed our lives. The moon shot was cool, but it did not change the world in my mind.

When you're ten, you believe the myths. That's why it left such a strong and lasting impression.

RIP JFK

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Re: I hate this date

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Black Jack!
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Re: I hate this date

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There are world or national events that leave an indelible imprint on our lives. One of those "you always remember where you were when you heard that..." events, national tragedies. When for a short time partisanship is suspended.

JFK's assassination was also the earliest for me and the first of the three assassinations in that decade, the other two were RFK and MLK. November 22nd was also my mother's birthday. And I agree 9/11 was also one of those national tragedies. For our parents it was the attack on Pearl Harbor - December 7th, 1941 - my parents would occasionally talk about it.

I've been to Dealey Plaza in Dallas. RIP JFK.
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Re: I hate this date

Post by Wino »

I was 21. That week is seared into my memory as if yesterday. I lost it several times - the salute; Jackie at the Rotunda; procession to Arlington Cemetery. Shock when Oswald shot. Terrible times.
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Re: I hate this date

Post by YankeeTarheel »

highdesert wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:00 am
There are world or national events that leave an indelible imprint on our lives. One of those "you always remember where you were when you heard that..." events, national tragedies. When for a short time partisanship is suspended.

JFK's assassination was also the earliest for me and the first of the three assassinations in that decade, the other two were RFK and MLK. November 22nd was also my mother's birthday. And I agree 9/11 was also one of those national tragedies. For our parents it was the attack on Pearl Harbor - December 7th, 1941 - my parents would occasionally talk about it.

I've been to Dealey Plaza in Dallas. RIP JFK.
There were far more than 3 significant assassinations in the 1960's.
Medgar Evers
The Philadelphia, Mississippi 3 civil rights workers:
Michael Schwerner,
James Chaney,
and Andrew Goodman
Viola Liusa (an FBI informant was in the car with her murderer)
Malcolm X
The Birmingham 16 Street Baptist Church Bombing victims:
Addie Mae Collins, 14
Denise McNair, 11
Carole Robertson, 14
Cynthia Wesley, 14

And, of less significance, but equally assassinated:
George Lincoln Rockwell, the founder of the modern American Nazi Party
Lee Harvey Oswald

I remember all of these, even though I was only 8 in 1963.

And let's not forget 1970--when 6 college students were murdered by National Guardsmen, 4 at Kent State, 2 at Jackson State.

So when people are nostalgic for the 1960's I have to wonder WTF is wrong with them! We even had our first astronaut deaths in the 1960's
""If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -- LBJ

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Re: I hate this date

Post by highdesert »

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:35 am
highdesert wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:00 am
There are world or national events that leave an indelible imprint on our lives. One of those "you always remember where you were when you heard that..." events, national tragedies. When for a short time partisanship is suspended.

JFK's assassination was also the earliest for me and the first of the three assassinations in that decade, the other two were RFK and MLK. November 22nd was also my mother's birthday. And I agree 9/11 was also one of those national tragedies. For our parents it was the attack on Pearl Harbor - December 7th, 1941 - my parents would occasionally talk about it.

I've been to Dealey Plaza in Dallas. RIP JFK.
There were far more than 3 significant assassinations in the 1960's.
Medgar Evers
The Philadelphia, Mississippi 3 civil rights workers:
Michael Schwerner,
James Chaney,
and Andrew Goodman
Viola Liusa (an FBI informant was in the car with her murderer)
Malcolm X
The Birmingham 16 Street Baptist Church Bombing victims:
Addie Mae Collins, 14
Denise McNair, 11
Carole Robertson, 14
Cynthia Wesley, 14

And, of less significance, but equally assassinated:
George Lincoln Rockwell, the founder of the modern American Nazi Party
Lee Harvey Oswald

I remember all of these, even though I was only 8 in 1963.

And let's not forget 1970--when 6 college students were murdered by National Guardsmen, 4 at Kent State, 2 at Jackson State.

So when people are nostalgic for the 1960's I have to wonder WTF is wrong with them! We even had our first astronaut deaths in the 1960's
I forgot about the others, many involved the fight for civil rights. It was a violent decade, we have extremist groups and some violence now but nothing like the 60's.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Re: I hate this date

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i was in the 4th or 5th grade. they called us in from recess and sent us home early.

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Re: I hate this date

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I was in Miss Savino's 3rd grade "Core" class that afternoon when the principal, Fred Feeney, came over the PA system. While we weren't sent home, I do remember that school was closed for the funeral. And I remember the NY Post from those (pre-Murdoch) days. We kept them for many years.
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Re: I hate this date

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Nov 22nd,1963 I was home sick and for some reason had the TV on and Chet Huntley came on with the first news and pictures. I called my mother who was working and periodically updated her and she updated her co-workers. The long days that followed, the procession of dignities that walked from the WH to St Matthew's Cathedral for the funeral and the burial and eternal flame. And of course Black Jack.
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Re: I hate this date

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I was an optician at the time and working in downtown Baltimore.
To be vintage it must be older than me! Coming to you from Deep South Texas!

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Re: I hate this date

Post by TrueTexan »

I was in 6th grade and the school was in the flight path of Air Force One when it took off from Carswell AFB going to Love field in Dallas. We got to go outside and watch it fly over the school. Later we were at lunch and one student had brought a portable radio to school so we could listen to JFK.. That is when we learned he had been shot and killed.

I remember the other assassinations of the 1960s along with the civil unrest Riots and the Chicago Democratic convention and riots. That along with other tragedies 9/11, the Space shuttles crashing that make up the late 20th and early 21st century.
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Re: I hate this date

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Afterwards, school curriculum changed. My class did the Warren Report, and my sub group did the autopsy. At the time I owned one rifle, my 8x50r Austrian Budapest Mannlicher carbine, but I didn't have a scope. I could hit a punkin every time with iron sights from 80 yards (the range). Admittedly the punkin just sat there. When we did our reports and I told 'em, the whole class thought Osward could have made the shot, being an adult with some experience and a scope. I haven't changed from that.

The whole sixties (63-74) as folks have noted was filled with violence and assassinations, cultural upheavals, and assertions of rights. To butcher a phrase, now that we're out of the teens, the twenties are going to make the sixties look like the fifties.

Then, we went to the moon. Now, we have to save the earth from ourselves or we'll be living on the moon in domes under electric candle lights.

Nearly seven decades for me. What a fuckin' ride this has been, totally a strange trip that ain't over yet.

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Re: I hate this date

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I was 12.

The kicker for me came on Sunday morning November 24 when Jack Ruby snuck into the Dallas Police Department basement and shot Oswald who died later that day. Also Oswald killed J. D. Tippet. I believe Tippet was an innocent bystander.

We'll never know the truth of what really happened that day and the aftermath. My knowledge of firearms today makes me believe it seems implausible for Oswald to have acted alone. And what I know now of confirmation bias makes me believe without doubt that our political leaders of that day wanted desperately to believe that Oswald did act alone.
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Re: I hate this date

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I thought Tippet was a police officer...am I wrong?

Alone? Depends. Was he the lone shooter? Yes, clearly the strongest evidence is that he was. The "dancing" bullet was a result of an improper chronology. Correcting the timing, there was not "magic, dancing bullet. The same bullet went through the Governor who was turned at that moment and hit the President in the back. That alone would have likely crippled him, or worse. The second went through his head

But was Oswald "the lone crazy gunman"? This was a guy who moved in and out of Russia and Cuba almost with impunity when no one else could have. His claim that he was a patsy makes a lot of sense, and his immediate murder is classic--set up an assassin, then kill him to make sure he cannot be tied back to you. 57 years ago the technology was nothing like today so final answers are, indeed, unlikely.
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Re: I hate this date

Post by Bisbee »

Oswald and JFK UNSOLVED CASES
Part 1: The Pawn (50 min)
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/onde ... o/3016074/

Oswald and JFK UNSOLVED CASES
Part 2: The Chessmaster (55 min)
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/onde ... o/3016075/

NHK is Japan’s version of the BBC.

How many folks know that the Oswald story started in Japan with his meetings w KGB informants/spies and later led to his possible involvement with the CIA’s counter-espionage division while he was still stationed in Yokusuka?
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

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Re: I hate this date

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It was aliens.

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Re: I hate this date

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YankeeTarheel wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:56 pm
I thought Tippet was a police officer...am I wrong?

Alone? Depends. Was he the lone shooter? Yes, clearly the strongest evidence is that he was. The "dancing" bullet was a result of an improper chronology. Correcting the timing, there was not "magic, dancing bullet. The same bullet went through the Governor who was turned at that moment and hit the President in the back. That alone would have likely crippled him, or worse. The second went through his head

But was Oswald "the lone crazy gunman"? This was a guy who moved in and out of Russia and Cuba almost with impunity when no one else could have. His claim that he was a patsy makes a lot of sense, and his immediate murder is classic--set up an assassin, then kill him to make sure he cannot be tied back to you. 57 years ago the technology was nothing like today so final answers are, indeed, unlikely.
Cops can be innocent you know. Tippet got a call on his radio to be on the lookout . . . then he spotted a guy who matched the description and got out of his patrol car to check it out, The rest is history.

Speaking of technology, trajectory tracing didn't exist and sound tracing didn't exist so there's no way to say if a second gunman was behind the fence on the grassy knoll or on the freeway overpass. Weapons technology was well along though and a short barreled rifle firing a .220 swift or a .221 Remington Fireball with a suppressor could have been used by a second gunman.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.220_Swift
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.221_Remington_Fireball
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Re: I hate this date

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CDFingers wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:42 pm
It was aliens.

CDFingers
At least we have trump to round up those nasty aliens and deport them.
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Re: I hate this date

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yeah, good thing we have a space force!

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Re: I hate this date

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4F88272C-5539-4BB7-9E4E-2C657D054C32.jpeg
B2CFE7D9-141F-46AD-A744-41FECB55FE59.jpeg
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

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Re: I hate this date

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OMG. Yes. Shouldn't ouoghta happen to a kid.

But not all presidents hold the same immunity imnsho, nor would it be deserved currently.

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Re: I hate this date

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We need to remember that at the time a significant percentage of the US population applauded the assassination of both Kennedys and MLK and were not overly troubled by Evers and other such instances.

There is little reason today to think that the US population has really changed dramatically.
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Re: I hate this date

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sig230 wrote:
Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:22 am
We need to remember that at the time a significant percentage of the US population applauded the assassination of both Kennedys and MLK and were not overly troubled by Evers and other such instances.

There is little reason today to think that the US population has really changed dramatically.
Yes, 1960 was a divisive election, I had Republican relatives who were strong Nixon supporters and never quite adjusted to that loss. They were obsessed with voter fraud in states like Illinois, Michigan, Pennsylvania...where they accused Democratic political machines of including votes from the grave.

We can't forget Nixon lost in 1960 and he also lost in his run for governor in CA in 1964 and that was his home state. However Nixon turned around and won the presidency in 1968. Hope Trump's health doesn't allow him to run in 2024 and he loses his grip on his party.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Re: I hate this date

Post by YankeeTarheel »

harriss wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:33 pm
YankeeTarheel wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:56 pm
I thought Tippet was a police officer...am I wrong?

Alone? Depends. Was he the lone shooter? Yes, clearly the strongest evidence is that he was. The "dancing" bullet was a result of an improper chronology. Correcting the timing, there was not "magic, dancing bullet. The same bullet went through the Governor who was turned at that moment and hit the President in the back. That alone would have likely crippled him, or worse. The second went through his head

But was Oswald "the lone crazy gunman"? This was a guy who moved in and out of Russia and Cuba almost with impunity when no one else could have. His claim that he was a patsy makes a lot of sense, and his immediate murder is classic--set up an assassin, then kill him to make sure he cannot be tied back to you. 57 years ago the technology was nothing like today so final answers are, indeed, unlikely.
Cops can be innocent you know. Tippet got a call on his radio to be on the lookout . . . then he spotted a guy who matched the description and got out of his patrol car to check it out, The rest is history.

Speaking of technology, trajectory tracing didn't exist and sound tracing didn't exist so there's no way to say if a second gunman was behind the fence on the grassy knoll or on the freeway overpass. Weapons technology was well along though and a short barreled rifle firing a .220 swift or a .221 Remington Fireball with a suppressor could have been used by a second gunman.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.220_Swift
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.221_Remington_Fireball
While I agree Tippet was innocent, as a LEO on the lookout for Oswald he wasn't an "innocent bystander". "Innocent Bystander" is universally used for people who are NOT either criminals, specific targets of criminals, or law enforcement. It's a misuse of the term to refer to him as such--RIP.

There actually has been trajectory tracing, and the timing of the Zapruder film contradicts the timing of the Warren Commission. PBS's NOVA did a study, oh, must be 20 years ago, complete with animated reconstructions that shows EXACTLY how Oswald could have gotten off both shots as a skilled marksman. There have been other similarly sound studies, all disputed by the conspiracy buffs who cannot give up their many crackpot conspiracy "theories" (I use the word guardedly) because the Warren Commission rushed to get out the "crazy lone gunman" idea out there that it made many mistakes and the report was mostly shit. The evidence of a grassy knoll shooter is, at best, very shaky, and there's simply no way a bullet from that angle could have caused JFK's injuries.

And that's all I'm going to say on the subject.
""If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -- LBJ

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Re: I hate this date

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we can and should condemn hillary for saying "deplorable" out loud, but she was right, they're out here.

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