It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalitions

Silly season is upon us, keep it civil, but this lets folks who don't want to watch the train wreck more easily avoid forced rubber necking.

Moderators: admin, Inquisitor, ForumModerator, WebsiteContent

User avatar
Dropbear
Chatty
Posts: 1700
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:57 pm
Location: LGC Member. Aus & TX
Contact:

It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalitions

Post by Dropbear »

Interesting article. As much as I like Webb, I don't think the author has fairly detailed his positions here:

http://ijr.com/opinion/2016/12/262351-r ... -jim-webb/
The Drop Bear, Thylarctos plummetus, is a large, arboreal, predatory marsupial related to the Koala.

User avatar
lurker
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 15936
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:00 pm
Location: spencer, nc.
Contact:

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by lurker »

but, but, privilege!

edit: the article asks a question. the answer is up to us to discover.
Last edited by lurker on Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
sikacz
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 14776
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:03 am
Location: LGC MEMBER: Houston
Contact:

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by sikacz »

There is much there that people don't want to acknowledge or talk about. Nothing is ever black and white. Class matters and the divide is growing. It'll be interesting to see how this all works out in the next few years.
ImageImage
"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

User avatar
Marlene
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 5624
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:48 pm
Contact:

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by Marlene »

We are entertaining the notion that the Democratic Party whose candidate shied away from acknowledging that black lives might matter at all is failing to address class because it's being good at addressing race? What planet is that true on? Can we please stop acting like the betrayal of the working class by both parties in American politics has been to the benefit of people of color? That's the fucking lie that keeps poor whites voting for the Bushes, but it really really really isn't the truth. Pretending that it is the truth is definitely not the solution. Addressing class inequity has ZERO requirement for this racist bullshit.
Image

User avatar
sikacz
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 14776
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:03 am
Location: LGC MEMBER: Houston
Contact:

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by sikacz »

I'm entertaining the idea that class matters not excluding anything else. As a unifying element it is larger and covers people from other groups as well.
ImageImage
"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

User avatar
Marlene
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 5624
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:48 pm
Contact:

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by Marlene »

I really don't understand this delusion of white people that hears "everyone, including people of color" and interprets that to mean "not white people".
Image

User avatar
Marlene
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 5624
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:48 pm
Contact:

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by Marlene »

This article's thesis summed up: "Jim Webb: he's like Bernie, but without meaningful economic analysis, but he makes up for it with a little racism, and racism seems to be popular these days."
Image

User avatar
Elmo
Moderator
Posts: 5676
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 11:24 pm
Location: Northern California
Contact:

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by Elmo »

The title of this thread sounded good to me, something I could agree with, but that's not at all what I see from Jim Webb in the linked article.

He's not talking about uniting the working class, just using new and different language to divide it by race.

To unite the working class, you unite it in opposition to its common oppressor. Webb doesn't go there, not does any prominent Democrat other than (very tentatively) Bernie Sanders.
Image
"To initiate a war of aggression...is the supreme international crime" - Nuremberg prosecutor Robert Jackson, 1946

User avatar
sikacz
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 14776
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:03 am
Location: LGC MEMBER: Houston
Contact:

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by sikacz »

Elmo wrote:The title of this thread sounded good to me, something I could agree with, but that's not at all what I see from Jim Webb in the linked article.

He's not talking about uniting the working class, just using new and different language to divide it by race.

To unite the working class, you unite it in opposition to its common oppressor. Webb doesn't go there, not does any prominent Democrat other than (very tentatively) Bernie Sanders.
This. The idea of unifying the working class is what I agree with as well.
ImageImage
"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

User avatar
sikacz
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 14776
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:03 am
Location: LGC MEMBER: Houston
Contact:

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by sikacz »

To me a party looking after the working class will be looking after everyone. I don't really care if corporations and the elites have their feelings hurt and their wallets lightened.
ImageImage
"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

User avatar
Marlene
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 5624
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:48 pm
Contact:

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by Marlene »

sikacz wrote:To me a party looking after the working class will be looking after everyone. I don't really care if corporations and the elites have their feelings hurt and their wallets lightened.
I couldn't agree more.
Image

User avatar
CottonMcKnight77
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 583
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:17 pm
Contact:

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by CottonMcKnight77 »

The Democratic Party does not need to shift to the nebulous center writers like this mythologized. If the party wants to win, what it needs to shift is its focus to the working class of all colors (including whites). I think Bernie Sanders and Jim Webb could both speak to the same constituencies.

By the way, I really like Webb as a novelist.
Do you believe in unlikelihoods?

User avatar
lurker
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 15936
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:00 pm
Location: spencer, nc.
Contact:

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by lurker »

i see you all have your blinders on. i don't know jim webb from jack webb (ok jack is dead) but you'll never hear him if you fixate on defending your preconceived notions of what he's said. donald trump won with substantial support from minorities and women, and that was your wake-up call. but you're too busy dreaming. this thread should be interesting, but it won't be because dissent will be stifled with accusations of racism. it's already happening.

User avatar
sikacz
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 14776
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2013 12:03 am
Location: LGC MEMBER: Houston
Contact:

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by sikacz »

lurker wrote:i see you all have your blinders on. i don't know jim webb from jack webb (ok jack is dead) but you'll never hear him if you fixate on defending your preconceived notions of what he's said. donald trump won with substantial support from minorities and women, and that was your wake-up call. but you're too busy dreaming. this thread should be interesting, but it won't be because dissent will be stifled with accusations of racism. it's already happening.
Jim Webb is not important here. What is important is a single minded focus against the corporations and elites with a unified working class. Just because I read something in an article doesn't mean it's the same thing the writer intended or even the subject. To me it's all about class, the shaping of the future administration cabinet is enough to reinforce my thoughts.
ImageImage
"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

User avatar
CDFingers
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 22603
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Member LGC: norCal
Contact:

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by CDFingers »

Marlene wrote:This article's thesis summed up: "Jim Webb: he's like Bernie, but without meaningful economic analysis, but he makes up for it with a little racism, and racism seems to be popular these days."
This for me justifies righteous indignation. The attitude is typified by those who want to normalize, to accept, the Trump ideas out there. Trouble is, many of those ideas are not new.

Here is an article from The Atlantic showing how easy it may be to tip to internment camps.
It is wrong to judge or restrict the rights of an individual simply due to their membership in an identity group; imprisoning them on that basis is a particularly egregious abrogation of human rights; the mass imprisonment of Japanese Americans during World War II was immoral and unconstitutional. But critics went further. They argued that to air contrary opinions, to treat the targeted imprisonment of an ethnic minority as if it is open to debate in 2016, is to normalize something that ought to be stigmatized—a misstep that is particularly dangerous now, with a president-elect who has threatened to target Muslims with discriminatory policies based on their religion.

To definitively disprove that chain of logic is impossible—who can say for sure what the marginal effect of a debate will be?—and I sympathize with the people who operate as if it holds true, even if only out of an abundance of caution. Still, I worry that this logic of the risks of normalization isn’t simply unproven, but counterproductive.

Consider an alternative theory: George W. Bush, Barack Obama, Michael Bloomberg, and many others have prosecuted many policies that would’ve seemed unthinkable before 9/11. The years since the September 11 attacks have already proved that a significant percentage of Americans support targeted discrimination of some sort against Muslim Americans. Trump was elected despite plausible signs that he will go farther.

Put another way, many illiberal impulses are already normal, like it or not.
link:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... picks=true

Mass media has done its very best to erode the idea that such a thing as "the working class" exists. Mass media finds it much more profitable to have sub groups to make fun of so other groups will watch. Zero class consciousness.

The idea of "The 99%" was a pretty good one. Since the mass media does not follow it and follows, say, the idea that an election was hacked is nonsense, well, you don't get class consciousness. You get division--sweet, profitable, division.

What do we do?

Me, I still pursue that ever-elusive, hyper accurate and affordable, low recoil, recreational reloadable rifle round along with the rifle it sits in--perhaps it will fly from a skeletonized insect playing a subversive guitar. Be still, my anticipating heart. :coffee:

CDFingers
ImageImage
Major Domo said, "Why don't we give him rope enough to hang himself?
Don't worry 'bout the jury, they'll prolly take care of themselves."

User avatar
eelj
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 15422
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:49 pm
Location: Minnesota
Contact:

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by eelj »

The Rainbow coalition was conceived by Jesse Jackson back in the 80s. He knew that the working class comprised people of all colors.

When asked how he expected to get his message across to white steel workers his answer was this,"I will convince the white steel worker he has more in common with black steel workers because he's a worker then his bosses because of the color of his skin".

Trump won areas that Obama carried twice so it's not race, it's class.

Howard Dean mentioned reaching out to poor whites in a way that could unify workers of all races in 2004 but the Dem establishment was having none of it.

I'm well aware of my privileged status as a white male, I've lived a good life and am not singled out by police or loan officers red lining neighborhoods, but it's a tough sell to people who are struggling to live on 16,000 a year with zero chance to send their kids to even a community college that they are privileged.

User avatar
Marlene
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 5624
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:48 pm
Contact:

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by Marlene »

lurker wrote:i see you all have your blinders on. i don't know jim webb from jack webb (ok jack is dead) but you'll never hear him if you fixate on defending your preconceived notions of what he's said. donald trump won with substantial support from minorities and women, and that was your wake-up call. but you're too busy dreaming. this thread should be interesting, but it won't be because dissent will be stifled with accusations of racism. it's already happening.
What ideas are on offer that aren't accurately described by my snarky summary?
Image

User avatar
lurker
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 15936
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:00 pm
Location: spencer, nc.
Contact:

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by lurker »

Marlene wrote:
lurker wrote:i see you all have your blinders on. i don't know jim webb from jack webb (ok jack is dead) but you'll never hear him if you fixate on defending your preconceived notions of what he's said. donald trump won with substantial support from minorities and women, and that was your wake-up call. but you're too busy dreaming. this thread should be interesting, but it won't be because dissent will be stifled with accusations of racism. it's already happening.
What ideas are on offer that aren't accurately described by my snarky summary?
WWMD?
what would marx do?

User avatar
Marlene
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 5624
Joined: Mon Aug 22, 2016 11:48 pm
Contact:

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by Marlene »

I don't imagine Marx mistaking class solidarity for inherently requiring opposition to redress of racism.
Image

User avatar
HuckleberryFun
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 4101
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 1:21 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon
Contact:

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by HuckleberryFun »

Unified? The working class is hopelessly divided. Union leadership goes Democrat while a plurality (if not a majority) of the membership goes Trump. White workers vs black, union vs non-union, "skilled" vs "unskilled": they all work against each other to get the last meager scrap from the shrinking table. Back in the Gilded Age Jay Gould boasted he could "hire half the working class to kill the other half." We have come full circle and are now in a New Gilded Age.
ImageImage
I’m not your Sherpa, so find your own way and carry your own baggage.

User avatar
Dropbear
Chatty
Posts: 1700
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:57 pm
Location: LGC Member. Aus & TX
Contact:

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by Dropbear »

FWIW - Webb, in his own words, on affirmative action:


http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014240 ... 0952309408
The Drop Bear, Thylarctos plummetus, is a large, arboreal, predatory marsupial related to the Koala.

User avatar
dandad
Carpal Tunnel
Posts: 6597
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:22 am
Location: Misery

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by dandad »

Marlene wrote:We are entertaining the notion that the Democratic Party whose candidate shied away from acknowledging that black lives might matter at all is failing to address class because it's being good at addressing race? What planet is that true on? Can we please stop acting like the betrayal of the working class by both parties in American politics has been to the benefit of people of color? That's the fucking lie that keeps poor whites voting for the Bushes, but it really really really isn't the truth. Pretending that it is the truth is definitely not the solution. Addressing class inequity has ZERO requirement for this racist bullshit.
! this, times 365

Sent from my LGLS770 using Tapatalk
Last edited by dandad on Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
This is just my opinion, yours may vary and is no less valid.
- Me -

"I will never claim to be an expert, and it has been my experience that self proclaimed experts are usually self proclaimed."
-Me-

I must proof read more

User avatar
dandad
Carpal Tunnel
Posts: 6597
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:22 am
Location: Misery

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by dandad »

sikacz wrote:To me a party looking after the working class will be looking after everyone. I don't really care if corporations and the elites have their feelings hurt and their wallets lightened.
Yes

Sent from my LGLS770 using Tapatalk
This is just my opinion, yours may vary and is no less valid.
- Me -

"I will never claim to be an expert, and it has been my experience that self proclaimed experts are usually self proclaimed."
-Me-

I must proof read more

User avatar
dandad
Carpal Tunnel
Posts: 6597
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:22 am
Location: Misery

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by dandad »

HuckleberryFun wrote:Unified? The working class is hopelessly divided. Union leadership goes Democrat while a plurality (if not a majority) of the membership goes Trump. White workers vs black, union vs non-union, "skilled" vs "unskilled": they all work against each other to get the last meager scrap from the shrinking table. Back in the Gilded Age Jay Gould boasted he could "hire half the working class to kill the other half." We have come full circle and are now in a New Gilded Age.
Ive wondered if part of the multitude levels of Us vs. Them , union vs non union, black vs, white, christian vs. Non Christian, Blue Collar vs. White collar, etc... Is just adaptations of the some peoples need to have someone to look down upon, so they can feel better about themselves? Not bases on anything really, and doesn't matter to the haters who it is they look down upon.

Then those who are looked down upon respond in kind.

Sent from my LGLS770 using Tapatalk
This is just my opinion, yours may vary and is no less valid.
- Me -

"I will never claim to be an expert, and it has been my experience that self proclaimed experts are usually self proclaimed."
-Me-

I must proof read more

User avatar
lurker
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 15936
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:00 pm
Location: spencer, nc.
Contact:

Re: It's about a united working class, not rainbow coalition

Post by lurker »

dandad wrote:some peoples need to have someone to look down upon, so they can feel better about themselves?
i believe you are correct, sir.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest