PLEASE LET A YUGE METEOR HIT EARTH AND END THIS NOW

Silly season is upon us, keep it civil, but this lets folks who don't want to watch the train wreck more easily avoid forced rubber necking.

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dandad
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PLEASE LET A YUGE METEOR HIT EARTH AND END THIS NOW

#1 Post by dandad » Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:51 pm

http://www.ksdk.com/news/politics/bill- ... /362243469



A Missouri lawmaker has filed a bill that would redefine marriage in state law and replace marriage licenses with "contracts of domestic union."

Rep. T.J. Berry, a Clay County Republican, said Friday he filed an identical bill last year and intends to take marriage out of government's hands and leave the matter up to churches. The remaining "domestic unions" would allow couples to receive governmental benefits.

Berry, a self-described "very religious" Southern Baptist and ordained deacon, filed the bill despite his own church's unhappiness. Indeed, he says he heard criticism from LGBT advocates and traditional marriage proponents alike who "aren't exceptionally happy with it" and filed it anyway.

People who favor gay marriage have told Berry the bill takes away the ability for LGBT couples to be formally recognized as "married," while proponents of traditional marriage believe that when marriage is removed from government, it's removed from society.

"Very few people I've talked to like (his bill), but I really do think it is the solution that takes out some of the heat of the argument," Berry said.

Berry's bill, which he says changes every use of the word "marriage" in state statute, comes after a Supreme Court ruling in June 2015 that extends the right to marriage to gay and lesbian couples.
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Re: PLEASE LET A YUGE METEOR HIT EARTH AND END THIS NOW

#2 Post by Marlene » Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:54 pm

I'm in favor. Fuck the church-state collusion of government marriage.
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Re: PLEASE LET A YUGE METEOR HIT EARTH AND END THIS NOW

#3 Post by laragc » Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:30 pm

Marlene wrote:I'm in favor. Fuck the church-state collusion of government marriage.
Me too, so long as no one in the state can call what they have a "marriage" on any legal documents, or everyone can.

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Re: PLEASE LET A YUGE METEOR HIT EARTH AND END THIS NOW

#4 Post by lurker » Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:34 pm

"marriage" has been many things in many places, nearly always a contractual arrangement. money or farm animals change hands. me, i've never married, no kids, lived with the same person 25 years. we have wills and other documents filed here and there defining who does what, with what, under what circumstances. if it all goes bad, as often happens, the hard part will be deciding who gets which dog. she can keep the cats. don't get me wrong, cats are ok, but i'm a dog person. so personally i don't care much what happens to the bundled contract we call marriage.

actually, technically, i have been married. after living together in ga for some number of years, the law considered us common law married. couple of years later, they changed the law and suddenly we weren't married. no diff, as far as i could tell.
:hmmm:

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Re: PLEASE LET A YUGE METEOR HIT EARTH AND END THIS NOW

#5 Post by TrueTexan » Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:41 pm

France after the revolution had required all citizens to have a civil marriage ceremony. They could have another church wedding but as far as the law was concerned it was not binding or a legal union. Make the government have the weddings for legal purposes and to heck with the church having any say in the matter. They don't pay taxes. I think they should but that would be a diffent thread.
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Re: PLEASE LET A YUGE METEOR HIT EARTH AND END THIS NOW

#6 Post by senorgrand » Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:41 pm

This is why we can't have nice things...
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Re: PLEASE LET A YUGE METEOR HIT EARTH AND END THIS NOW

#7 Post by dandad » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:04 pm

Marlene wrote:I'm in favor. Fuck the church-state collusion of government marriage.
Im for that too, but they also want to make Marriage , determined by the Church. as in the church deciding who is married and who isnt.

Personally, drop all marriage bullshit and just have civil unions.
This is just my opinion, yours may vary and is no less valid.
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Re: PLEASE LET A YUGE METEOR HIT EARTH AND END THIS NOW

#8 Post by ghazy » Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:00 am

Marlene wrote:I'm in favor. Fuck the church-state collusion of government marriage.
One of the many reasons I'm glad I got married in a state that does self-uniting licenses.

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Re: PLEASE LET A YUGE METEOR HIT EARTH AND END THIS NOW

#9 Post by Inquisitor » Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:35 pm

Marlene wrote:I'm in favor. Fuck the church-state collusion of government marriage.
This was my initial reaction.

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Re: PLEASE LET A YUGE METEOR HIT EARTH AND END THIS NOW

#10 Post by Queen » Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:44 pm

I find I'm enjoying being married, even though it took 24 years for us to be allowed the privilege. But I'm going to have to agree with Marlene, it's time the church/state got out of business together.

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Re: PLEASE LET A YUGE METEOR HIT EARTH AND END THIS NOW

#11 Post by Inquisitor » Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:56 pm

I am an atheist. I had a helluva time finding even a judge to marry us without saying the word "god" at any point. Yeah yeah, first world cisgender problems :)


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Re: PLEASE LET A YUGE METEOR HIT EARTH AND END THIS NOW

#12 Post by Queen » Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:06 pm

Inquisitor wrote:I am an atheist. I had a helluva time finding even a judge to marry us without saying the word "god" at any point. Yeah yeah, first world cisgender problems :)


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Local judge took the day off when it became legal here in IL, so he wouldn't have to marry queers. The UU minister married us with zero mention of a deity, it was lovely.

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Re: PLEASE LET A YUGE METEOR HIT EARTH AND END THIS NOW

#13 Post by shinzen » Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:07 pm

laragc wrote:
Marlene wrote:I'm in favor. Fuck the church-state collusion of government marriage.
Me too, so long as no one in the state can call what they have a "marriage" on any legal documents, or everyone can.
Yup. And as long as marriage doesn't confer any special rights above and beyond what the government documents use, screw it.

We did find a judge for the formal stuff that didn't include any god stuff at our request. And nothing referred to it when we did our little ceremony on the beach in Mexico either, so that was good.
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Re: PLEASE LET A YUGE METEOR HIT EARTH AND END THIS NOW

#14 Post by lurker » Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:30 pm

having said above how i feel about marriage personally, i would like to note that my neighbors, two gay men, are very proud that they were among the first in line when NC made it legal for them, and they've been married by the state for almost a year now. whether it will last, and the legal entanglements that divorce entails, have yet to be seen. i notice in some places some judges have declined to recognize a concommitant right to divorce in their laws.
the OP appears to me to be an attempt by some legislators in missouri to take "marriage" out of the venue of the state, which relieves them of the responsibility of having to recognize same-sex unions, a clever dodge and IMO the right way to do it if that's what they want.
:hmmm:

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Re: PLEASE LET A YUGE METEOR HIT EARTH AND END THIS NOW

#15 Post by TrueTexan » Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:52 pm

My parents and my wife's parent were both married by Justice of the Peace, no church involved. The pulpit bangers said they weren't married by God and it wouldn't last. Well both couples were married over 50 years until the mothers died. I say it was damn good. My wife and I had a church wedding cause she wanted it. I would have been fine with a judge or JP. It's not how you get married it's what you do after to stay married through the ups and downs. We were lucky we married our best friends.
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Re: PLEASE LET A YUGE METEOR HIT EARTH AND END THIS NOW

#16 Post by Inquisitor » Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:55 pm

lurker wrote:having said above how i feel about marriage personally, i would like to note that my neighbors, two gay men, are very proud that they were among the first in line when NC made it legal for them, and they've been married by the state for almost a year now. whether it will last, and the legal entanglements that divorce entails, have yet to be seen. i notice in some places some judges have declined to recognize a concommitant right to divorce in their laws.
the OP appears to me to be an attempt by some legislators in missouri to take "marriage" out of the venue of the state, which relieves them of the responsibility of having to recognize same-sex unions, a clever dodge and IMO the right way to do it if that's what they want.
I get the pride. I get that the OP is some way to deny that pride.

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Re: PLEASE LET A YUGE METEOR HIT EARTH AND END THIS NOW

#17 Post by Greengunner » Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:01 pm

Queen wrote:
Inquisitor wrote:I am an atheist. I had a helluva time finding even a judge to marry us without saying the word "god" at any point. Yeah yeah, first world cisgender problems :)


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Local judge took the day off when it became legal here in IL, so he wouldn't have to marry queers. The UU minister married us with zero mention of a deity, it was lovely.
My wife is Muslim, though pretty secular. I was raised Catholic but stopped believing in sky fairies a long long time ago.

We were married by a lovely UU minister in a beautiful outdoor ceremony. Per our request, God was never mentioned.

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Re: PLEASE LET A YUGE METEOR HIT EARTH AND END THIS NOW

#18 Post by SeaDragonTattoo » Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:19 pm

laragc wrote:
Marlene wrote:I'm in favor. Fuck the church-state collusion of government marriage.
Me too, so long as no one in the state can call what they have a "marriage" on any legal documents, or everyone can.
This.

I don't understand how people don't seem to get that even when they are married in a church, there's that paper from their local county that they still have to sign and file if they want to file taxes as married - as in you're not legal without that - and the only difference is someone got the certificate from the courthouse for you instead of you going yourself.
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Re: PLEASE LET A YUGE METEOR HIT EARTH AND END THIS NOW

#19 Post by Queen » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:11 pm

Greengunner wrote:
Queen wrote:
Inquisitor wrote:I am an atheist. I had a helluva time finding even a judge to marry us without saying the word "god" at any point. Yeah yeah, first world cisgender problems :)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
Local judge took the day off when it became legal here in IL, so he wouldn't have to marry queers. The UU minister married us with zero mention of a deity, it was lovely.
My wife is Muslim, though pretty secular. I was raised Catholic but stopped believing in sky fairies a long long time ago.

We were married by a lovely UU minister in a beautiful outdoor ceremony. Per our request, God was never mentioned.
Can't say enough good things about this local minister, we were not members of the church (neither of us are churchy), I called and asked him if he would marry us in 24 hours. We were working against the clock as my mom was dying at the time, he was wonderful.

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Re: PLEASE LET A YUGE METEOR HIT EARTH AND END THIS NOW

#20 Post by MaxwellG » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:34 pm

This Bill is nothing more than an end-run on Gay Marriage, giving the right to marry people will result in denials for LGBT couples
particularly in the South. But then it's not about the actual law, it's about following your conscience in administrating that law, just
ask Rowan County Clerk Kim Davis.

If LGBT want to get married, they should be able to and have that right, there are no rational reasons, only trumped up (did I really say that) moral objections, which is personal and should be left out of the legal process.
Each generation of President goes a little bit further, becomes a little more criminal in nature. We cannot use the past to excuse the criminal actions of today.

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Re: PLEASE LET A YUGE METEOR HIT EARTH AND END THIS NOW

#21 Post by inomaha » Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:36 am

All marriage does is streamline a contract process. People should be able to take advantage of that streamlined contract process regardless of who is on the other side of it.

The state should make it so any consenting adults are able to enter in to a omnibus contract encompassing power of attorney, medical decisions, handling estate issues, and caring for off-spring. That's really all marriage is anyway, taking care of someone and their estate. Sex, love, and all that other stuff has little to do with marriage. Just a cursory look at the history of human interaction, bonding, marriage, infidelity, etc, through history proves that concept.

Take the contracts out of the churches hand, insurance out of employers hands, and family planning out of the tax codes, and we wouldn't have a lot of these issues. The churches could be left with their stand before god pomp and circumstance ceremonies.

If you're single and want all the rights and privileges of a marriage contract to go to your mother, brother, sister, child, friend, room mate, random person down the street, that should be an option. Put it in one easy place the courts can handle. Make it one person at a time so the courts don't have to deal with larger group legal battles.

Reading the OP, I think that might be the intent of the person filing the bill. Since he's getting push back from all sides. Churches want the concept of marriage under their control. Other groups want to redefine the church's concept of marriage so they can get the same rights and previleges (because the church got mingled with the state in this issue). The concept I outlined would let anyone do anything they wanted outside the government sphere, while still keeping people equal under the law.
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Re: PLEASE LET A YUGE METEOR HIT EARTH AND END THIS NOW

#22 Post by CDFingers » Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:41 am

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