Police remove U.S. Senate candidate in Maryland from stage

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Green Party candidate is removed from the debate stage at the University of Baltimore by police after trying to participate in an election debate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jqVScGY051E

Green Party Candidate in Maryland Escorted Off Debate Stage by Police

"The Green Party candidate in Maryland’s Senate Race was escorted off the stage by police after she interrupted a televised debate Wednesday between the two major party candidates.

Dr. Margaret Flowers was not invited to be a part of the debate because she had not performed well enough in the polls to qualify."

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"The debate between incumbent Democratic Rep. Chris Van Hollen and Republican State Del. Kathy Szeliga, sponsored by the Baltimore Sun, the League of Women Voters, and the University of Baltimore, was about to start when Flowers stormed the stage.

Flowers stood between Van Hollen and Szeliga, who were behind their podiums, and kept talking about how she believed the debate was doing a disservice by not also including her.

“It’s not a full discussion if you don’t have all viewpoints included and I’m a valid candidate on the ballot, so I hope you and I appreciate you allowing me to be here today,” Flowers said."

http://freebeacon.com/politics/green-pa ... ge-police/
"When and if fascism comes to America... it will be called, of course, ‘Americanism'." - Halford Luccock
"Liberty without socialism is privilege and injustice. Socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality."
— Mikhail Bakunin

Re: Police remove U.S. Senate candidate in Maryland from sta

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It's clearly a Catch-22 to require 15% in the polls to participate in debates - minor party candidates will never reach 15% if voters never see them, so the two main parties make sure the voters never see them.

I find it pretty shocking to see cops dragging candidates who are on the ballot off a stage. You could tell the first cop was really hesitant to do it, but then a guy in a snazzier uniform jumps in and grabs her. Even the Democratic candidate felt obligated to offer to let her participate (knowing perfectly well that she would be criticized for not speaking up but still completely safe from having her suggestion actually followed).

Got to wonder, if this is so uncontroversial why it wasn't a big national news story like Gary Johnson not knowing what Aleppo was. If that was the case, they should be showing this widely on TV news and having a good laugh about it.
"When and if fascism comes to America... it will be called, of course, ‘Americanism'." - Halford Luccock
"Liberty without socialism is privilege and injustice. Socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality."
— Mikhail Bakunin

Re: Police remove U.S. Senate candidate in Maryland from sta

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SilasSoule wrote:It's clearly a Catch-22 to require 15% in the polls to participate in debates - minor party candidates will never reach 15% if voters never see them, so the two main parties make sure the voters never see them.
Nationally, we have had Anderson and Perot, but it is rare to see them make the threshhold.
SilasSoule wrote: I find it pretty shocking to see cops dragging candidates who are on the ballot off a stage. You could tell the first cop was really hesitant to do it, but then a guy in a snazzier uniform jumps in and grabs her. Even the Democratic candidate felt obligated to offer to let her participate (knowing perfectly well that she would be criticized for not speaking up but still completely safe from having her suggestion actually followed).
I imagine there could be an issue where a state university, i.e. the government, excludes a speaker.

There is a way to enforce inclusion of a speaker in a debate, and it doesn't involve meekly asking if another podium can be found.

I believe it was after William F. Buckley had run for Mayor in NY as a third party candidate he was invited to a university to speak on the topic of the vietnam war. The crowd of students disrupted the event so he could not speak, so the democrat announced that he would not speak unless Buckley were permitted to speak. The students disrupted the event so the democrat couldn't speak, so the anti-war activist announced that he wouldn't speak unless the other two were permitted to speak.

Re: Police remove U.S. Senate candidate in Maryland from sta

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zukiphile wrote:
SilasSoule wrote:It's clearly a Catch-22 to require 15% in the polls to participate in debates - minor party candidates will never reach 15% if voters never see them, so the two main parties make sure the voters never see them.
Nationally, we have had Anderson and Perot, but it is rare to see them make the threshhold.
I believe Anderson was back when the League of Women Voters ran the debates and the rules were different. They dropped out because the Democrats and Republicans wanted to exclude other candidates.

Perot only had about 8% but was allowed to debate because he wasn't considered to be a real threat. After he kicked butt they raised the threshold to 15%.

Perot Was At 8% Nationally And Allowed To Debate, Gary Johnson Is At 9%

"Although the 15% national polling average requirement for inclusion in the Presidential debates is well known now it hasn’t always been that way. In fact, the rule was not in place during the 1992 Presidential election. If it was, Ross Perot would not have been allowed into the debates. In September, Perot was polling at around 8% nationally but was invited to the three Presidential debates that started in mid-October. After the election, in which Perot received nearly 19% of the popular vote, the Commission on Presidential Debates instituted the 15% rule. That rule is now standing in the Governor’s way even though Gary Johnson is polling higher than Ross Perot was when Perot was invited to the Presidential debates in September of 1992."

https://alibertarianfuture.com/2016-ele ... 9-percent/

"In 1980, independent candidate John Anderson appeared in one debate with Ronald Reagan, but never one with incumbent President Jimmy Carter." https://www.washingtonpost.com/pb/news/ ... o-debates/
"When and if fascism comes to America... it will be called, of course, ‘Americanism'." - Halford Luccock
"Liberty without socialism is privilege and injustice. Socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality."
— Mikhail Bakunin

Re: Police remove U.S. Senate candidate in Maryland from sta

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"The League of Women Voters ran the presidential debate process from 1976 until 1984, and they were a very courageous and genuinely independent, nonpartisan sponsor. And whenever the candidates attempted to manipulate the presidential debates behind closed doors, either to exclude a viable independent candidate or to sanitize the formats, the League had the courage to challenge the Republican and Democratic nominees and, if necessary, go public.

In 1980, independent candidate John B. Anderson was polling about 12 percent in the polls. The League insisted that Anderson be allowed to participate, because the vast majority of the American people wanted to see him, but Jimmy Carter, President Jimmy Carter, refused to debate him. The League went forward anyway and held a presidential debate with an empty chair, showing that Jimmy Carter wasn’t going to show up.

Four years later, when the Republican and Democratic nominees tried to get rid of difficult questions by vetoing 80 of the moderators that they had proposed to host the debates, the League said, "This is unacceptable." They held a press conference and attacked the campaigns for trying to get rid of difficult questions.

And lastly, in 1988, was the first attempt by the Republican and Democratic campaigns to negotiate a detailed contract. It was tame by comparison, a mere 12 pages. It talked about who could be in the audience and how the format would be structured, but the League found that kind of lack of transparency and that kind of candidate control to be fundamentally outrageous and antithetical to our democratic process. They released the contract and stated they refuse to be an accessory to the hoodwinking of the American people and refuse to implement it."

http://www.democracynow.org/2016/8/18/o ... een_partys
"When and if fascism comes to America... it will be called, of course, ‘Americanism'." - Halford Luccock
"Liberty without socialism is privilege and injustice. Socialism without liberty is slavery and brutality."
— Mikhail Bakunin

Re: Police remove U.S. Senate candidate in Maryland from sta

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SilasSoule wrote: Perot only had about 8% but was allowed to debate because he wasn't considered to be a real threat. After he kicked butt they raised the threshold to 15%.

Perot Was At 8% Nationally And Allowed To Debate, Gary Johnson Is At 9%

"Although the 15% national polling average requirement for inclusion in the Presidential debates is well known now it hasn’t always been that way. In fact, the rule was not in place during the 1992 Presidential election. If it was, Ross Perot would not have been allowed into the debates. In September, Perot was polling at around 8% nationally but was invited to the three Presidential debates that started in mid-October. After the election, in which Perot received nearly 19% of the popular vote, the Commission on Presidential Debates instituted the 15% rule. That rule is now standing in the Governor’s way even though Gary Johnson is polling higher than Ross Perot was when Perot was invited to the Presidential debates in September of 1992."

https://alibertarianfuture.com/2016-ele ... 9-percent/
I don't note this out of any animosity toward Johnson.

Perot polled at 8% in September because he had dropped out of the race. After he jumped back into the race his poll numbers rose to 20%, not quite what he had the prior summer.

My sense is that Johnson draws people because he isn't personally disgusting, which is fine so far as it goes. Perot had a lot of strong support from people who were only loosely associated with either party and didn't have a strong sense of policy direction. I think they resembled Trump voters in many ways.

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