Re: Democratic New York Assemblyman's bill to search federal watch lists for firearm owners annually

2
A4511 (ACTIVE) - SUMMARY
Prohibits the provision of licenses for firearms to persons on the federal no-fly list or terrorist screening database; authorizes firearms licenses of persons on the federal no-fly list or terrorist screening database to be suspended or revoked; requires the superintendent of state police to search the federal no-fly list or terrorist screening database each year and report findings to appropriate enforcement agencies in order to suspend or revoke appropriate licenses.
AAANNnndd A big NOPE from here. Due Process. It's a thing here in this Country.

Re: Democratic New York Assemblyman's bill to search federal watch lists for firearm owners annually

5
Looks like back in 2015 Obama talked about it.
Back in December President Obama proposed this idea suggesting there is a “loophole” when he said, “Right now, people on the No-Fly list can walk into a store and buy a gun. That is insane. If you’re too dangerous to board a plane, you’re too dangerous, by definition, to buy a gun.”
The fact is, however, the two terrorists (who shall not be named) were not included on the No-Fly List or the broader Terrorist Screening Database of which the No-Fly List constitutes a part. So even if a “No Fly, No Gun” policy had been the law of the land, it would not have kept the husband-wife terrorist team from obtaining their weapons.
It is well known that there are and have been many errors on the No-Fly List. Various film and music artists, prominent journalists and even members of Congress have at times erroneously been included in the No-Fly List. The No-Fly List is estimated at around 16,000 names with approximately 420,000 names expected in the Terrorist Screening Database. And most of the names are of foreign nationals. No big surprise there, but any number of American citizens that happen to share a name with a terrorist and find themselves denied boarding onto a plane or potentially from purchasing a firearm when there is no clear process for having the error corrected is too many as it violates the Constitution
https://illinois.concealedcarry.com/201 ... -bad-idea/

The reference above is to the 2015 San Bernardino shooting that occurred at a San Bernardino County DPH building, 14 people were killed. Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik, a radicalized married couple were the shooters. Their rifles were purchased by a friend who was later convicted on gun charges.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Democratic New York Assemblyman's bill to search federal watch lists for firearm owners annually

6
tonguengroover wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 12:11 am Might keep some Proud Boy types from legal purchases. No?
I mean if you did some stupid shit to get you on that list like being an asshole on a flight and getting kicked off well fuck it. Maybe your a fucking whack job MAGA idiot and shouldn't have a gun.
“Right now, people on the No-Fly list can walk into a store and buy a gun. That is insane. If you’re too dangerous to board a plane, you’re too dangerous, by definition, to buy a gun.”
Makes sense to me...as for 'due process'..every domestic abuse protective order..every search of a vehicle, is lacking 'due process' Most arrests lack 'de process'...

Re: Democratic New York Assemblyman's bill to search federal watch lists for firearm owners annually

7
F4FEver wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 8:35 am
tonguengroover wrote: Mon Feb 20, 2023 12:11 am Might keep some Proud Boy types from legal purchases. No?
I mean if you did some stupid shit to get you on that list like being an asshole on a flight and getting kicked off well fuck it. Maybe your a fucking whack job MAGA idiot and shouldn't have a gun.
“Right now, people on the No-Fly list can walk into a store and buy a gun. That is insane. If you’re too dangerous to board a plane, you’re too dangerous, by definition, to buy a gun.”
Makes sense to me...as for 'due process'..every domestic abuse protective order..every search of a vehicle, is lacking 'due process' Most arrests lack 'de process'...
Here is the ACLU on the no fly list:

https://www.aclu.org/cases/kashem-et-al ... o-fly-list

https://www.aclu.org/news/national-secu ... d-restrict

Federal watch lists are rife with errors and problems.

Re: Democratic New York Assemblyman's bill to search federal watch lists for firearm owners annually

9
sikacz wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:06 pm
featureless wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 11:36 pm Neat. More persecutory bullshit laws from dems that will do fuckall.
Correct. I can just see how fun these will be when the “wrong” people get denied and hassled. These type of laws are primed for abuse.
People do get put on the list for wrong reasons, similar names, etc. But there are ways to get off the list. I feel sorry for them but I'm more concerned with some assholes and terrorists gettin on my flight. So fuck it, take a damn train or Greyhound.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

Re: Democratic New York Assemblyman's bill to search federal watch lists for firearm owners annually

10
The redress program currently in use is the D.H.S. Traveler Redress Inquiry Program (T.R.I.P.). T.R.I.P. is “a single point of contact for individuals who have inquiries or seek resolution regarding difficulties they experienced during their travel screening at transportation hubs – like airports – or crossing U.S. borders.” This program has been continuously criticized and challenged by the American Civil Liberties Union (A.C.L.U.) for being “utterly inadequate.”
Watchlisted individuals “have a statutory right to have D.H.S. T.R.I.P. determination reviewed by the federal court of appeals,” however the review is based on agency records which the watchlisted person lacks access. Without having the reasoning behind being placed on a watchlist or agency records to discover the reasoning, adequate challenges are unavailable.
https://lawblogs.uc.edu/ihrlr/2022/04/2 ... -fly-list/

No Greyhound or train service to Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Guam or the Virgin Islands and it takes days to get to Alaska by car and ferry if allowed into Canada, so those areas of the US get penalized. Airlines have no fly lists of disruptive passengers and the Delta CEO wants Congress to add their lists to the TSA No Fly List, that would be a real nightmare.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Democratic New York Assemblyman's bill to search federal watch lists for firearm owners annually

11
highdesert wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:14 am
The redress program currently in use is the D.H.S. Traveler Redress Inquiry Program (T.R.I.P.). T.R.I.P. is “a single point of contact for individuals who have inquiries or seek resolution regarding difficulties they experienced during their travel screening at transportation hubs – like airports – or crossing U.S. borders.” This program has been continuously criticized and challenged by the American Civil Liberties Union (A.C.L.U.) for being “utterly inadequate.”
Watchlisted individuals “have a statutory right to have D.H.S. T.R.I.P. determination reviewed by the federal court of appeals,” however the review is based on agency records which the watchlisted person lacks access. Without having the reasoning behind being placed on a watchlist or agency records to discover the reasoning, adequate challenges are unavailable.
https://lawblogs.uc.edu/ihrlr/2022/04/2 ... -fly-list/

No Greyhound or train service to Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Guam or the Virgin Islands and it takes days to get to Alaska by car and ferry if allowed into Canada, so those areas of the US get penalized. Airlines have no fly lists of disruptive passengers and the Delta CEO wants Congress to add their lists to the TSA No Fly List, that would be a real nightmare.
Yes a recipe for injustice.
Image
Image

"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Democratic New York Assemblyman's bill to search federal watch lists for firearm owners annually

12
sikacz wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 9:44 am
highdesert wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 7:14 am
The redress program currently in use is the D.H.S. Traveler Redress Inquiry Program (T.R.I.P.). T.R.I.P. is “a single point of contact for individuals who have inquiries or seek resolution regarding difficulties they experienced during their travel screening at transportation hubs – like airports – or crossing U.S. borders.” This program has been continuously criticized and challenged by the American Civil Liberties Union (A.C.L.U.) for being “utterly inadequate.”
Watchlisted individuals “have a statutory right to have D.H.S. T.R.I.P. determination reviewed by the federal court of appeals,” however the review is based on agency records which the watchlisted person lacks access. Without having the reasoning behind being placed on a watchlist or agency records to discover the reasoning, adequate challenges are unavailable.
https://lawblogs.uc.edu/ihrlr/2022/04/2 ... -fly-list/

No Greyhound or train service to Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Guam or the Virgin Islands and it takes days to get to Alaska by car and ferry if allowed into Canada, so those areas of the US get penalized. Airlines have no fly lists of disruptive passengers and the Delta CEO wants Congress to add their lists to the TSA No Fly List, that would be a real nightmare.
Yes a recipe for injustice.

Exactly "We can't tell you why you're on a no fly list because it's a government secret and you're not authorized to see that information." "You're guilty of violating the law because we say you are and we can't divulge secret intelligence." Sounds a lot like the old Soviet Union and the current Communist China and right wing regimes like Saudi Arabia.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Democratic New York Assemblyman's bill to search federal watch lists for firearm owners annually

13
highdesert wrote: Thu Feb 23, 2023 10:08 am Exactly "We can't tell you why you're on a no fly list because it's a government secret and you're not authorized to see that information." "You're guilty of violating the law because we say you are and we can't divulge secret intelligence." Sounds a lot like the old Soviet Union and the current Communist China and right wing regimes like Saudi Arabia.
Yup. Secret lists are bad.

Re: Democratic New York Assemblyman's bill to search federal watch lists for firearm owners annually

14
sikacz wrote: Wed Feb 22, 2023 4:06 pm
featureless wrote: Sun Feb 19, 2023 11:36 pm Neat. More persecutory bullshit laws from dems that will do fuckall.
Correct. I can just see how fun these will be when the “wrong” people get denied and hassled. These type of laws are primed for abuse.
But its not a reason to throw the law out but to make the law better, make the no-fly list 'better'. I hear this all the time when I recommend Medicare for All. They point to the VA, another gooned up(but now better) government health care program that lousy with abuse..Don't do away with it but make it better. Don't do away with no fly lists and how it applies to buying a gun, make it better.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest