Re: Western liberal militia?
26The National Guard is the latest incarnation of the 'militia' formalized originally in the Militia Acts. Look it up.
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The militia is referenced 6 times in the Constitution, and only one of those is in 2A.sikacz wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:54 pmThe "militia" refers to the people in a specified age bracket and at the time of the framing. male. It has nothing to do with the National Guard.wings wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:50 pm The National Guard is "the" militia. It should, by rights, be non-partisan, geared towards community defense, responsive to local elected officials, and following all applicable laws and codes of conduct. If you're looking to serve, they recruit.
They do good work. Disaster response in particular.
Laws regarding defensive use of firearms vary from state to state, but they tend to focus on response to immediate threats to human life, not existential threats to the Constitution. The club certainly doesn't advocate illegal activity or violence, and we're all a little prickly about potential trolls and provocateurs. Can't imagine why.
I dunno. Sounds exactly like the National Guard to me.To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
I'm pretty sure that is not correct. Then again, this has been chewed and beat to death in this forum. I'm sure there are others here that could correct you, I don't care to.YankeeTarheel wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:19 pmThe militia is referenced 6 times in the Constitution, and only one of those is in 2A.sikacz wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:54 pmThe "militia" refers to the people in a specified age bracket and at the time of the framing. male. It has nothing to do with the National Guard.wings wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:50 pm The National Guard is "the" militia. It should, by rights, be non-partisan, geared towards community defense, responsive to local elected officials, and following all applicable laws and codes of conduct. If you're looking to serve, they recruit.
They do good work. Disaster response in particular.
Laws regarding defensive use of firearms vary from state to state, but they tend to focus on response to immediate threats to human life, not existential threats to the Constitution. The club certainly doesn't advocate illegal activity or violence, and we're all a little prickly about potential trolls and provocateurs. Can't imagine why.
It's referenced 3 times in Art I, once in Art II, and once in 5A. In all of them it is a military organization, organized, defined and established by Congress, allowing the officers to be selected by the states. 2A is NOT the be-all and end-all definition of the militia, and, in those definitions, it very closely parallels the National Guard in just about all things.
For example from Article I, under the Powers of Congress (2 of the 6 references):
I dunno. Sounds exactly like the National Guard to me.To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
The Bill of Rights was ratified before the Militia Act. They are two different constructs, look it up.wings wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:15 pm The National Guard is the latest incarnation of the 'militia' formalized originally in the Militia Acts. Look it up.
And the main body of the Constitution was ratified before the Bill of Rights and spells out what the Militia is:
Right. I'm citing Art I, Sect 8, Paragraph 15 verbatim! What's not right?sikacz wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:29 pmI'm pretty sure that is not correct. Then again, this has been chewed and beat to death in this forum. I'm sure there are others here that could correct you, I don't care to.YankeeTarheel wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:19 pmThe militia is referenced 6 times in the Constitution, and only one of those is in 2A.sikacz wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:54 pmThe "militia" refers to the people in a specified age bracket and at the time of the framing. male. It has nothing to do with the National Guard.wings wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:50 pm The National Guard is "the" militia. It should, by rights, be non-partisan, geared towards community defense, responsive to local elected officials, and following all applicable laws and codes of conduct. If you're looking to serve, they recruit.
They do good work. Disaster response in particular.
Laws regarding defensive use of firearms vary from state to state, but they tend to focus on response to immediate threats to human life, not existential threats to the Constitution. The club certainly doesn't advocate illegal activity or violence, and we're all a little prickly about potential trolls and provocateurs. Can't imagine why.
It's referenced 3 times in Art I, once in Art II, and once in 5A. In all of them it is a military organization, organized, defined and established by Congress, allowing the officers to be selected by the states. 2A is NOT the be-all and end-all definition of the militia, and, in those definitions, it very closely parallels the National Guard in just about all things.
For example from Article I, under the Powers of Congress (2 of the 6 references):
I dunno. Sounds exactly like the National Guard to me.To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
don't have a basement.CDFingers wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:22 pm More than 99% of the ammunition used per year in America is used for recreation. The rest of it is in lurker's basement.
CDFingers
No basement, eh? Just like Pizzagate1!!!lurker wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:26 pmdon't have a basement.CDFingers wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:22 pm More than 99% of the ammunition used per year in America is used for recreation. The rest of it is in lurker's basement.
CDFingers
i have about 400 rds each of 45acp, 7.62N, 5.56 and 30-06, and about 100 each of .25acp , .380, .30 mauser and 30-40 krag. i keep them all* under the bench in the shed. there's a .50cal can full of 7.62x54r, but technically it's not mine.
* i keep a mag or two of 7.62 nato and 45acp inside, near the relevant guns. in case of zombies.
Now, that's not exactly true. Was the Friday after 9/11 and school had just started back up. A few of us went to a bar. Shortly thereafter there was a county-wide power out completely unrelated to any terrorism. As I was driving through the streets that had become parking lots with everyone going home, I had an Art Bell thought and considered how excellent it would be for terrorists to target power stations, plunge whole regions into darkness, then ride down from the hills to set free all our pigs. The Friday after the Tuesday. So I went home, took out a rifle, and clicked a mag in. Leaned it next to my bed. For that night, but i did it. So, not "never."
The bastards!
I've not only thought about it, I practice "it" regularly. And after every drill session I want to throw up. Because the thought of shooting a living thing is repugnant to me. Even a living thing which I believe has no right to share our oxygen.CDFingers wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:29 pmNo basement, eh? Just like Pizzagate1!!! 8-)lurker wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:26 pmdon't have a basement.CDFingers wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:22 pm More than 99% of the ammunition used per year in America is used for recreation. The rest of it is in lurker's basement.
CDFingers
i have about 400 rds each of 45acp, 7.62N, 5.56 and 30-06, and about 100 each of .25acp , .380, .30 mauser and 30-40 krag. i keep them all* under the bench in the shed. there's a .50cal can full of 7.62x54r, but technically it's not mine.
* i keep a mag or two of 7.62 nato and 45acp inside, near the relevant guns. in case of zombies.
Now, that's not exactly true. Was the Friday after 9/11 and school had just started back up. A few of us went to a bar. Shortly thereafter there was a county-wide power out completely unrelated to any terrorism. As I was driving through the streets that had become parking lots with everyone going home, I had an Art Bell thought and considered how excellent it would be for terrorists to target power stations, plunge whole regions into darkness, then ride down from the hills to set free all our pigs. The Friday after the Tuesday. So I went home, took out a rifle, and clicked a mag in. Leaned it next to my bed. For that night, but i did it. So, not "never."
CDFingers
This is not the 1700s.sikacz wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:54 pmThe "militia" refers to the people in a specified age bracket and at the time of the framing. male. It has nothing to do with the National Guard.wings wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:50 pm The National Guard is "the" militia. It should, by rights, be non-partisan, geared towards community defense, responsive to local elected officials, and following all applicable laws and codes of conduct. If you're looking to serve, they recruit.
They do good work. Disaster response in particular.
Laws regarding defensive use of firearms vary from state to state, but they tend to focus on response to immediate threats to human life, not existential threats to the Constitution. The club certainly doesn't advocate illegal activity or violence, and we're all a little prickly about potential trolls and provocateurs. Can't imagine why.
I had to make the example as unusual as the reason for thinking it--know there're lots of bacon fans here, like geno. In a way it was a foolish thing to write amid a discussion about needing to shoot someone. See, rolandson has a totally solid and legit reason for preparing for self defense. Except for my cats, no one has ever tried to stab me or anything beyond reminding me how I don't look like Rock Hudson or Bill Cosby--which is pretty tame by comparison. So, it was very unusual for me to click in a magazine, even though my trusty bayonet is always right there, the bayo from my childhood that I learned to stick in a tree from ten feet and used to poke zillions of holes in a very forgiving banana tree.Bisbee wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:51 am You lost me with the pigs, CD. Why would terrorists go through all that trouble to blow up a power station just so they can go to your pig farm and wreak some havoc?
Or does “pig” have an alternate meaning?
Like “pizza”...
Can't have states with their own armies, have to bring them under federal control. The feds paid for equiping them so they could dictate to states.The Militia Act of May 8, 1792, permitted militia units organized before the May 8, 1792, to retain their "customary privileges." This provision of the militia act was perpetuated by the Militia Act of 1903, the National Defense Act of 1916, and by subsequent law.
Great point. Maybe I did come on too strong. Let me be clear. I fear people shooting each other. I have zero fascination with people shooting each other. I also fear that there is a lot of willingness by extreme conservatives to trample on the Constitution and the electoral process if allowed to. In fact, many of my conservative friends have told me that anything would be okay even abolishing the election or overruling the election results for Trump to have a second term. I think liberals, not radicals, but liberals. Actually forget liberals. Anyone who actually wants to see a democracy function should be organized in terms of communication, civil organization, legal protest and defense preparedeness. I came her seeking the fourth, but because I came on too strong, all I have gotten is a bunch of puking and dismissal. Oh well.rolandson wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:57 pm Why do we seem to have this fascination with shooting each other? What the fuck is wrong with us?
True. But that is what is out there.YankeeTarheel wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:02 pm Anyone who wants to abolish the election and give it Trump isn't a "conservative" -- they are an out-and-out fascist, anti-American traitor.
And I'm being nice!
Don't get us wrong. We're mostly liberals, ranging the gamut. We all shoot, for all sorts of reasons. But the aims and purpose of the club are printed on the tin - we're not a militia. We don't advocate any sort of illegal or even paramilitary activity. We shoot, we educate, we advocate. We provide a place for liberal gun owners to kibbitz without much interference from right-wing trolls of the sort you describe.ElectricSailboats wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:44 pmGreat point. Maybe I did come on too strong. Let me be clear. I fear people shooting each other. I have zero fascination with people shooting each other. I also fear that there is a lot of willingness by extreme conservatives to trample on the Constitution and the electoral process if allowed to. In fact, many of my conservative friends have told me that anything would be okay even abolishing the election or overruling the election results for Trump to have a second term. I think liberals, not radicals, but liberals. Actually forget liberals. Anyone who actually wants to see a democracy function should be organized in terms of communication, civil organization, legal protest and defense preparedeness. I came her seeking the fourth, but because I came on too strong, all I have gotten is a bunch of puking and dismissal. Oh well.rolandson wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:57 pm Why do we seem to have this fascination with shooting each other? What the fuck is wrong with us?
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