Western liberal militia?

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ElectricSailboats
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Western liberal militia?

Post by ElectricSailboats »

All those NRA conservative types always talk about the 2nd half of 2A, particularly the language about the right to bear arms will not be infringed.

But to me, the most important words are "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state"

I am worried that conservative miltia groups are preparing for action against our US Constitution should a crisis related to the election arise this fall.

My question is is there any liberal militia on the west coast somewhere that I can join and train with so that we can protect the sanctity of our US Constitution and the security of a free state in the United States of America?

My hope is that showing strength prevents chaos and violence against Americans and the freedoms and democracy that our Constitution protects.

Thank you

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Re: Western liberal militia?

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Please post an intro in the new member section, thanks.
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Re: Western liberal militia?

Post by HuckleberryFun »

There are no liberal militias that I know of. You have to go a lot farther left than "Liberal" before you start running into people actively training as a group to go to war. The Liberal Gun Club, itself, doesn't go there or anywhere near there. Also, since this is your first post, please post an Introduction first.
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Re: Western liberal militia?

Post by ElectricSailboats »

HuckleberryFun wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:20 pm
There are no liberal militias that I know of. You have to go a lot farther left than "Liberal" before you start running into people actively training as a group to go to war. The Liberal Gun Club, itself, doesn't go there or anywhere near there. Also, since this is your first post, please post an Introduction first.
I posted an introduction just now. I would call myself center left, actually, the most accurate description would be someone who does not let the status quo affect my views and is very analytical. That generally puts me on the left, but I often believe the left right spectrum is just a justification to ignore data and good analysis by whomever benefits from the ignorance of reality - and that again puts me on the left, but not the far left.

And as a liberal, but not radical, I do wish that I had a way to be part of an organized militia that was liberal but not radical.

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Re: Western liberal militia?

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i disagree with your interpretation. the prefatory clause (a well-regulated militia) says why, but the rest (the right of the people to keep and bear) is the what.

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Re: Western liberal militia?

Post by sikacz »

What lurker said. We also have numerous discussions on this very topic. Enjoy reading.
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Re: Western liberal militia?

Post by Rossifan1782 »

Just my two cents but I'd say training is good, but a formalized milita in our current climate will not be well received and I am not aware of any that are "not radical". I'd say take classes practice, encourage your neighbors to do the same and short of a milita I would suggest a neighborhood watch (unarmed) that will give you connections towards a positive purpose more in the spirit of what I think a milita should be. Then you can have first aid courses through your neighborhood watch and if anyone is interested in going to the range with you, happily be an ambassador for firearms.

If the unthinkable happens and we the people do need to defend our free state then it will be your neighbors by your side. A formal milita is probably going to be radical, and to be frank probably not going to be around when stuff happens. The people next door to you on the otherhand knowing first aid would be a godsend in many situations, and if they happen to be range buddies so much the better.

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Re: Western liberal militia?

Post by sikacz »

We also have the club positions posted..

https://theliberalgunclub.com/about-us/ ... egulation/
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Re: Western liberal militia?

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Yup, no militias in California unless it involves hoods. Community is your best bet.

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Re: Western liberal militia?

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lurker wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:38 pm
i disagree with your interpretation. the prefatory clause (a well-regulated militia) says why, but the rest (the right of the people to keep and bear) is the what.
I think the why and the what of 2A is actually checks and balances that the people have over the government. The framers of our Constitution, as they explained in the Federalist Papers, were fanatical about checks and balances in order for democracy to work. An armed citizenship that is organized into militias was the best way to create a check on the powers of a tyranical goverment that usurped the interests of the majority and still is important oday, though I would say that transparency and information are critical to achieving this goal. But specifically if one looks at guns, the what of 2A is militias and maybe the second tier what is arms as they are necessary for militias to operate and the the why is a check on tyranical minorities controlling the US government. The tyranical usurption by a minority faction is a very real threat to American democracy right now and why the true intent of 2A is so important today.

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Re: Western liberal militia?

Post by CDFingers »

Look here, Seabiscuit. The cartridge box comes out when the ballot box fails. I'm not so sure you're all that sincere in your, er, comments. Prove me wrong.

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Re: Western liberal militia?

Post by rolandson »

Didn't we have this very same discussion a few months ago?.
CDFingers wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:27 pm
Look here, Seabiscuit. The cartridge box comes out when the ballot box fails. I'm not so sure you're all that sincere in your, er, comments. Prove me wrong.

CDFingers
CD, I even remember a comment very similar to this in it.

Or am I on acid?
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Re: Western liberal militia?

Post by sig230 »

ElectricSailboats wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:48 pm
lurker wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 1:38 pm
i disagree with your interpretation. the prefatory clause (a well-regulated militia) says why, but the rest (the right of the people to keep and bear) is the what.
I think the why and the what of 2A is actually checks and balances that the people have over the government. The framers of our Constitution, as they explained in the Federalist Papers, were fanatical about checks and balances in order for democracy to work. An armed citizenship that is organized into militias was the best way to create a check on the powers of a tyranical goverment that usurped the interests of the majority and still is important oday, though I would say that transparency and information are critical to achieving this goal. But specifically if one looks at guns, the what of 2A is militias and maybe the second tier what is arms as they are necessary for militias to operate and the the why is a check on tyranical minorities controlling the US government. The tyranical usurption by a minority faction is a very real threat to American democracy right now and why the true intent of 2A is so important today.
Checked recently and this is not the mid 1700s.

At the time the US Constitution was written the US Government even as envisioned did not have a standing army.

A "Liberal" militia is as abhorrent as a "Conservative" militia.

No civilian militia today could be effective against even the average equipped police force and most certainly only a threat to the US military if it has support of the vast majority of the population and over an extended decade or more time span.

Sorry but the idea of a liberal militia is as silly as a conservative militia.
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Re: Western liberal militia?

Post by CDFingers »

rolandson wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:38 pm
Didn't we have this very same discussion a few months ago?.
CDFingers wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:27 pm
Look here, Seabiscuit. The cartridge box comes out when the ballot box fails. I'm not so sure you're all that sincere in your, er, comments. Prove me wrong.

CDFingers
CD, I even remember a comment very similar to this in it.

Or am I on acid?
You may very well be on acid. Me, too. Sometimes I see these kinds of comments and I go, "Welp. Looks like another one." I might have a canned response. I'm ready to be proven wrong, however. Lord knows I'm used to that as a long time husband.

on edit: When a new guy comes in like gangbusters suggesting armed resistance way, way, too early, my eyes prick up.

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Re: Western liberal militia?

Post by rolandson »

Why do we seem to have this fascination with shooting each other? What the fuck is wrong with us?
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Re: Western liberal militia?

Post by HuckleberryFun »

rolandson wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 3:57 pm
Why do we seem to have this fascination with shooting each other? What the fuck is wrong with us?
My philosophy is that if I ever do find myself in a situation where I have to shoot someone then that means I probably fucked up somewhere along the line by missing warning signs.
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Re: Western liberal militia?

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sigh. "because militia bla bla bla, the right of the people ... shall not be infringed". shall not, imperative. infringed, nibbled at around the edges.

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Re: Western liberal militia?

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I never think about shooting someone. It'll be a knife, not a gun, and he'll be so close I can count his eyelashes. Almost always a him, and he'll be after my ass and he will lose.

People who talk about shit like civil war and shooting folks are just demonstrating asshole tendencies, and I have no time for them. Now, I'm ready to be proven wrong. I'm not that worried, actually.

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Re: Western liberal militia?

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:shh: acid?

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Re: Western liberal militia?

Post by rolandson »

I've come to the opinion that there are two categories of gun owner; those who hope and pray that circumstances where the prospect of using a weapon against another never present themselves, and those who can't wait.

It used to be that the majority fit into the former of the two. Of late, given the vitriol that seasons our divide, the numbers appear to have shifted.

Or maybe it's always been this way and just recently it's become acceptable to admit it.
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Re: Western liberal militia?

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I don't ever want to have to fight, shoot or stab someone. But I do have the necessary equipment and knowledge. Wishing for it is pure fucking stupidity. Being prepared to defend your family is no less a part of being responsible than having healthcare, life insurance and a job, IMHO.

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Re: Western liberal militia?

Post by rolandson »

The flavor of the discussion has shifted. It seems that there is an anticipatory jubilation in the preparation of an opportunity.

There's a distinct difference between being cognizant of danger and the taking of precautions in an effort to advance the defense of one's self and family, as opposed to actively seeking to perpetrate violence.
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Re: Western liberal militia?

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rolandson wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:02 pm
The flavor of the discussion has shifted. It seems that there is an anticipatory jubilation in the preparation of an opportunity.

There's a distinct difference between being cognizant of danger and the taking of precautions in an effort to advance the defense of one's self and family, as opposed to actively seeking to perpetrate violence.
Yes, I agree on both counts. There's a big difference between doing the necessary vs. doing the fantasy/desire. The escalation is apparent on both sides of the isle and it is very concerning.

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Re: Western liberal militia?

Post by wings »

The National Guard is "the" militia. It should, by rights, be non-partisan, geared towards community defense, responsive to local elected officials, and following all applicable laws and codes of conduct. If you're looking to serve, they recruit.

They do good work. Disaster response in particular.

Laws regarding defensive use of firearms vary from state to state, but they tend to focus on response to immediate threats to human life, not existential threats to the Constitution. The club certainly doesn't advocate illegal activity or violence, and we're all a little prickly about potential trolls and provocateurs. Can't imagine why.

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Re: Western liberal militia?

Post by sikacz »

wings wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 5:50 pm
The National Guard is "the" militia. It should, by rights, be non-partisan, geared towards community defense, responsive to local elected officials, and following all applicable laws and codes of conduct. If you're looking to serve, they recruit.

They do good work. Disaster response in particular.

Laws regarding defensive use of firearms vary from state to state, but they tend to focus on response to immediate threats to human life, not existential threats to the Constitution. The club certainly doesn't advocate illegal activity or violence, and we're all a little prickly about potential trolls and provocateurs. Can't imagine why.
The "militia" refers to the people in a specified age bracket and at the time of the framing. male. It has nothing to do with the National Guard.
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