Conscripted service (in Reserves) to own a firearm?

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I'm not a fan of CNN or their endless opinion pieces, but was curious what members here think of this approach:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/07/opinions ... index.html

As they mention in the article, the idea isn't new...conscripted service is practiced in many countries. If this were to be feasible, I would want to see strong language that anyone under this "MILITIA Act" serves to protect the physical, geographic borders of this nation, and not be available to whatever administration happens to be in power at the time to feed the machine of constant conflict and nation building overseas.

Re: Conscripted service (in Reserves) to own a firearm?

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A non-starter with me too, not well thought out. CNN is 24 hours so they have to fill up the time. Some countries already have a national service type program for their youth which can be military type service or something similar to our VISTA program countries define it differently. Sweden recently reimposed conscription because of the rumblings of the Russian bear to the east.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Conscripted service (in Reserves) to own a firearm?

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K9s wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:23 am
rolandson wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:11 am Militia?
Yeah, we already got that.
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req ... ion=prelim
.
So, at 46 you'd have to give up your firearms? Good luck with that.
Ahhh, no. Where did you read that? CNN?

The statute makes no mention of firearms one way or another. It merely establishes what, and who, constitutes our militia. Firearm ownership is not a requirement. But apparently having a male appendage is, at least for automatic membership. Women need to apply.
Subliterate Buffooery of the right...
Literate Ignorance of the left...
We Are So Screwed

Re: Conscripted service (in Reserves) to own a firearm?

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rolandson wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:52 am
K9s wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:23 am
rolandson wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:11 am Militia?
Yeah, we already got that.
https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req ... ion=prelim
.
So, at 46 you'd have to give up your firearms? Good luck with that.
Ahhh, no. Where did you read that? CNN?

The statute makes no mention of firearms one way or another. It merely establishes what, and who, constitutes our militia. Firearm ownership is not a requirement. But apparently having a male appendage is, at least for automatic membership. Women need to apply.
CNN?? WTF?? The link you provided, dude.

The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Re: Conscripted service (in Reserves) to own a firearm?

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featureless wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 12:18 pm NPR this morning was going on how the 2A was interpreted by the courts as a militia right prior to Heller when old Thomas and Scalia changed that to the demise of us all. I don't recall any court cases, especially SCOTUS cases, indicating this was so (not even Miller defined it that way). Was there such case law and I'm just forgetting it or was that a myth?
Answering my own question here, sort of... No SCOTUS rulings on 2A prior to Miller and none after Miller up to Heller. The following in from 2008, pre Heller.
Seventy years later, Miller remains the only Supreme Court opinion construing the Second Amendment. But courts struggle to decipher its holding. Some find Miller adopted an individual right theory of the Second Amendment, some find it adopted a collective right theory, and some find it adopted a hybrid theory, protecting the right to possess a firearm in connection with militia service. Most recently, in Parker v. District of Columbia, the D.C. Circuit concluded Miller assumed the Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess and use weapons “’of the kind in common use at the time,’” including handguns.

...

Oddly, Second Amendment scholars have largely ignored Miller. While individual and collective right theorists alike claim Miller supports their position, most provide only a perfunctory account of the case. The few exceptions focus on the text of the opinion, rather than the history of the case, and the context in which it was decided. All conclude Miller is an impenetrable mess.This essay concludes that Miller is coherent, but largely irrelevant to the contemporary debate over the meaning of the Second Amendment. Miller was a Second Amendment test case, teed up with a nominal defendant by a district judge sympathetic to New Deal gun control measures. But the Supreme Court issued a surprisingly narrow decision. Essentially, it held that the Second Amendment permits Congress to tax firearms used by criminals. While dicta suggest the Second Amendment guarantees an individual right to possess and use a weapon suitable for militia service, dicta are not precedent. In other words, Miller did not adopt a theory of the Second Amendment guarantee, because it did not need one.
https://uknowledge.uky.edu/law_facpub/265/

Re: Conscripted service (in Reserves) to own a firearm?

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Marlene wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 2:49 pm Whether luxury gay communism really lives up to the promise of luxury gay space communism. Is space travel the right of every comrade? How will we make that logistically feasible?
Marlene: It goes deeper than that, I am afraid. Fully automated versus fully insurrectionary may be the next battle.

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It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Re: Conscripted service (in Reserves) to own a firearm?

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ErikO wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:32 pm As someone who is above the age and outside the health requirements for the Organized Militia, I say CNN can pound sand.
It was an opinion piece on CNN's website. They also post opinion pieces from Trump officials and family members.

In the opinion piece, the writer admits that this is more like trolling than serious. Just an anti-gunner who doesn't know much about firearms...

I am also seeing plenty of poor defenses of 2A by right-wingers out there.

I wish they would discuss this issue intelligently.
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Re: Conscripted service (in Reserves) to own a firearm?

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Marlene wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:55 am Counterpoint: everybody gets to have guns but we disband our standing army and spend the money on food and housing programs and schools and medicine as an actual effective strategy to reduce the alienation that makes mass shootings a social phenomenon.
I'll take option two thanks. Although it would also allow for the investment into other programs that would have an immediate impact like Operation Ceasefire and funding to push for implementing the plans from the Sandy Hook Promise nationally.

Shit, can you imagine the military budget from option 1? Like we don't spend enough on that bullshit already.
“Do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better.”
- Maya Angelou

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Re: Conscripted service (in Reserves) to own a firearm?

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Marlene wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 8:55 am Counterpoint: everybody gets to have guns but we disband our standing army and spend the money on food and housing programs and schools and medicine as an actual effective strategy to reduce the alienation that makes mass shootings a social phenomenon.
Eisenhower made some of the same points in his Cross of Iron speech in 1953. He also warned about the Military Industrial Complex in his farewell address. Also he was theist president to actually cut the defense budget.

I don't think we can totally disband the military. But we can reform it into a true defense force. Quit trying to police the world. Combine all branches of the military into one service under one command. You would have the Air unit for anything that has manned flight. The Naval unit for anything that float of is on water. The Ground unit for any part that fights on the ground. this unit has two branches with one being the Special Forces that are now divide among all branches the other being the standard Army and Marines combined. The size of these forces are much reduced compared to today. We would have a reserve compote for each brach along with a National Guard. the reserve and National Guard can be activated for stateside duty in cases of disaster or other causes such as civil unrest. The military can't be deployed overseas without a Declaration of War request from the President and approved by a 3/4 vote of both houses of congress. The other branches of the defense apparatus such as the CIA will be highly restricted to what they are allowed to do. Mainly intelligence gathering, no starting or supporting Revolutions, Wars or other disruptive actions.

We can have an universal draft you turn 18 and not in high school then you go into the service with exceptions for severe physical or mental disabilities. FYI I remember the draft I was draft age in 1970 with a lottery number of 54. But I am blind in one eye so I was unfit for military service. I could have gone in the military and taken somebody's place at a desk or other non-combat area job.

With the draft all get the basic training and after that they are sorted into continuing into advanced military training or other support training. No more private contractors for cooks, support truck drivers, building maintenance etc. Everybody serves two years minimum. A few will serve in the combat military, most will do work like was don by the CCC or WPA during the depression or other jobs like we saw with the Job Corps in the inner cities supporting programs helping people make lives better.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Conscripted service (in Reserves) to own a firearm?

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Winterwolf00 wrote: Sat Aug 10, 2019 4:46 am If we practiced conscription we'd be alot more hesitant to launch reckless foreign wars, especially if we did what I think we should and make a Declaration of War dependent on a national referendum.
I would agree with you, normally. However, I wonder about that. It is pretty easy to whip up war fever in this country. The media seems to fall in line.

Of course, we rarely "declare war" anymore. The Prez just goes into undeclared wars or we sell arms to warmongers and poor people die on all sides.
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

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