New York Supreme Court judge rules Shockwave is not a firearm

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DispositionMatrix
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New York Supreme Court judge rules Shockwave is not a firearm

#1 Post by DispositionMatrix » Tue Jan 12, 2021 8:58 am

Under state law.
NY Judge Says Mossberg Shockwave Not A Firearm Under State Law
As Nolan’s attorney Peter Tilem explains:
The Shockwave… is a legally interesting weapon that fires shotgun shells out of a 14-inch barrel, has an overall length of 26 inches and a special “bird’s head” grip. Because of its design, it is can’t be considered a shotgun, rifle nor a handgun under New York law, and no license is required to possess one in the state.

A shotgun with a barrel length under 18 inches is generally illegal to own and possess in New York, at least without a license; however, the Shockwave (and similar weapons) cannot be legally considered a shotgun, which is defined in New York Penal Code §265.00 as a weapon which is “intended to be fired from the shoulder.” Mossberg’s “bird’s head” grip, similar to a pistol grip, makes it impossible to fire from the shoulder. In addition, the Shockwave cannot be legally considered a pistol because a pistol by definition was designed to be fired by one hand. The Shockwave features a strap on the foregrip designed for the support of the second hand. The prosecution’s own ballistics expert referred to each of Nolan’s Shockwaves as an “other weapon” in his report, meaning that it was not a “firearm” as was charged in the indictment.

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Re: New York Supreme Court judge rules Shockwave is not a firearm

#2 Post by lurker » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:02 am

any more nits they can pick? this is what happens when you let lawyers make the rules.

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Re: New York Supreme Court judge rules Shockwave is not a firearm

#3 Post by YankeeTarheel » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:17 am

What's stunning is there's no generic definition of a firearm under New York law "Any device that propels a projectile by an explosive chemical reaction"--or something like that. They'd have to make an exception for powder-actuated construction guns like Ramsets and cordless gas-powered nail guns like Paslodes.
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Re: New York Supreme Court judge rules Shockwave is not a firearm

#4 Post by highdesert » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:22 am

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives has confirmed the 590 Shockwave as a “firearm” per the Gun Control Act (GCA), but not a Class 3/NFA firearm. Click here to read a copy of the letter from the BATFE regarding federal classification of the Shockwave, dated 3/2/2017). NOTE: This letter only speaks to its FEDERAL status. There could be local/state laws that prohibit the sale of this gun in your state
https://www.mossberg.com/category/series/590-shockwave/

If CA hasn't banned it they soon will.
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Re: New York Supreme Court judge rules Shockwave is not a firearm

#5 Post by DougB1946 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:24 am

In This Old House, the good contractors used to talk about needing a permit for nail guns. Of course, that is in Massachusetts , where guns are a sign of barbarism. Probably have been more people killed with hammers than nail guns.

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Re: New York Supreme Court judge rules Shockwave is not a firearm

#6 Post by YankeeTarheel » Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:35 am

DougB1946 wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:24 am In This Old House, the good contractors used to talk about needing a permit for nail guns. Of course, that is in Massachusetts , where guns are a sign of barbarism. Probably have been more people killed with hammers than nail guns.
Really? Even pneumatics??? Certainly there's no restrictions on pneumatics in NJ. Glad I don't have to count my pneumatics as firearms.
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Re: New York Supreme Court judge rules Shockwave is not a firearm

#7 Post by wings » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:00 pm

Well, there's this. A DeWalt AR-15 pattern nailgun.
Image
https://nailsmag.blogspot.com/2018/01/d ... l-gun.html

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Re: New York Supreme Court judge rules Shockwave is not a firearm

#8 Post by TrueTexan » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:17 pm

Texas had to change their law on short barrel shotgun to make the shockwave legal. Originally the law was no "sawed off" shotguns with a barrel under 18 inches. Change the stock to one that you can shoulder Like the AR 15 pistols with brace and then you have a Short barrel shotgun. It was just a quirk in the federal law and rules that allowed Mossberg and now others to manufacture the Shockwave type firearms sold as Home Defense firearms.
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Re: New York Supreme Court judge rules Shockwave is not a firearm

#9 Post by K9s » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:28 pm

wings wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:00 pm Well, there's this. A DeWalt AR-15 pattern nailgun.
Image
https://nailsmag.blogspot.com/2018/01/d ... l-gun.html
I am going to go out on a limb here and guess that the guys who have one of those at a work site are not POC. It's all fun 'n' games when you don't fear the cops.
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Re: New York Supreme Court judge rules Shockwave is not a firearm

#10 Post by BKinzey » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:05 pm

wings wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:00 pm Well, there's this. A DeWalt AR-15 pattern nailgun.
Image
https://nailsmag.blogspot.com/2018/01/d ... l-gun.html
For those who may not know:

THAT'S NOT A NAILGUN :lol: That is an AR-15 with the case of a battery glued to the inserted magazine and Dewalt stickers slapped on it.

I've also seen pic of a red one with "Milwaukee" stickers and a "My Little Pony" version. :wacko: :wacko: :wtf:

I mention this because I have seen people actually try to pass that off as having been built by Dewalt. :no:
Last edited by BKinzey on Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New York Supreme Court judge rules Shockwave is not a firearm

#11 Post by BKinzey » Wed Jan 13, 2021 6:17 pm

Milwakee-AR15.jpg
MLP AR.jpg
And as a Bonus!
Hello Kitty AR.jpeg
Hello Kitty AR.jpeg (4.51 KiB) Viewed 80 times

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Re: New York Supreme Court judge rules Shockwave is not a firearm

#12 Post by K9s » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:17 am

I do like these...

Image

Image
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Re: New York Supreme Court judge rules Shockwave is not a firearm

#13 Post by sikacz » Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:25 am

I do wonder about their thought processes. If it’s not a firearm, what is it then? It fires a cartridge/shell just life any firearm.
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Re: New York Supreme Court judge rules Shockwave is not a firearm

#14 Post by K9s » Thu Jan 14, 2021 1:41 am

sikacz wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:25 am I do wonder about their thought processes. If it’s not a firearm, what is it then? It fires a cartridge/shell just life any firearm.
I'm guessing it is the "other" that is the key. I think, I could be wrong, that if you put a foregrip on a pistol, it becomes an "any other weapon" instead of a pistol.

https://www.omahaoutdoors.com/blog/plea ... -a-pistol/
The ATF’s interpretation of 26 U.S.C. 5845(e), the federal law regarding Any Other Weapons, is that the addition of a vertical grip makes a pistol not a pistol, but an AOW. An AOW, of course, is a National Firearms Act weapon that must be registered with the ATF along with paying a $5 tax for manufacture or $200 tax for transfer (ATF also has an imaginary 26” OAL requirement – a pistol longer than 26” can have a VFG without consequence – that I won’t discuss here. We’re concerned with shorter barreled pistols and PDW type weapons - AR pistols with 7.5-10” barrels, CZ Scorpions, etc).
I guess you can fool a NY judge who knows nothing about firearms (or give a pro-2A judge a reason to rule that way) with a clever argument in court? I bet that ruling wouldn't have happened if the defendant wasn't a retired cop.
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Re: New York Supreme Court judge rules Shockwave is not a firearm

#15 Post by BKinzey » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:15 pm

sikacz wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:25 am I do wonder about their thought processes. If it’s not a firearm, what is it then? It fires a cartridge/shell just life any firearm.
The task wasn't "what is this object?" The task was "by this definition, is this object a firearm?" According to the definition in NY State laws, it isn't a firearm.

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Re: New York Supreme Court judge rules Shockwave is not a firearm

#16 Post by sikacz » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:30 pm

BKinzey wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:15 pm
sikacz wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:25 am I do wonder about their thought processes. If it’s not a firearm, what is it then? It fires a cartridge/shell just life any firearm.
The task wasn't "what is this object?" The task was "by this definition, is this object a firearm?" According to the definition in NY State laws, it isn't a firearm.
Certainly highlights a bad definition.
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