Why don't some states reciprocate?

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Outpost716
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Why don't some states reciprocate?

Post by Outpost716 »

As someone who lives in New York State, I've never had a clear understanding of why my state (and others) don't have some sort of reciprocity agreement when it comes to firearms licensing (e.g., CCW)?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts, comments, and/or references.

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Re: Why don't some states reciprocate?

Post by Rossifan1782 »

New Jersey from my very limited reading up on conceal carry seems to require a temporal paradox of being able to wait months but in urgent need from imminent specific threats. How can you possibly be in urgent need but able to wait months?

Reciprocity with other places unless they are Gallifrey just wouldn't make sense. Why allow out of state carry when your own residents would need a TARDIS?

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Re: Why don't some states reciprocate?

Post by YankeeTarheel »

New Jersey does not have a conceal carry at all. It simply has a carry permit, nearly impossible to get. You have to be either under direct threat or working a security job.
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Re: Why don't some states reciprocate?

Post by highdesert »

There are basically two types of recognition, one is having a formal written agreement where one state recognizes carry licenses from another state. The other is administrative recognition that under the laws of that state an official i.e., governor, attorney general, head of law enforcement agency...can stipulate that another state meets their carry standards for example age requirement, training...and their licenses are valid in that state.

An example is Arizona.
https://www.azdps.gov/services/public/cwp

California doesn't recognize any other state's carry licenses. Some other states however do recognize a California carry license.

It all comes down to each state's laws.
Last edited by highdesert on Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why don't some states reciprocate?

Post by DispositionMatrix »

Outpost716 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:46 pm
As someone who lives in New York State, I've never had a clear understanding of why...
I'm guessing you might have an idea of the _actual_ "why" of it.

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Re: Why don't some states reciprocate?

Post by DougB1946 »

State requirements differ. Some states have "constitutional carry" or no requirements to carry. Some have minimal requirements to get a carry permit-short class, get a permit. Others have long classes and a shot for score or no permit. If your state has lower requirements, you don't get reciprocity. Some states want nobody to have a gun and have gone out of their way to make it difficult for their own citizens to carry or own. Pick the party of your choice to see which rights get abridged.

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Re: Why don't some states reciprocate?

Post by rolandson »

Oregon doesn't play well with others. Why? Because we don't like you. We don't like anyone.
pppppfffftttt.
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Re: Why don't some states reciprocate?

Post by offensivename »

rolandson wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:54 pm
Oregon doesn't play well with others. Why? Because we don't like you. We don't like anyone.
pppppfffftttt.
Oregon is a weird one. Its super easy to get a permit here, Shall Issue and all you have to do is show proof that you took a 'class' (I took some online power point thing with a test at the end). But we have no reciprocity and only let people who live on the border get out of state permits. I see why other states don't want our permit holders going to their states but the reverse is a mystery.

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Re: Why don't some states reciprocate?

Post by Outpost716 »

DispositionMatrix wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 3:55 pm
Outpost716 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:46 pm
As someone who lives in New York State, I've never had a clear understanding of why...
I'm guessing you might have an idea of the _actual_ "why" of it.
Well, there is the whole interstate bickering and childishness a la If you're not going to recognize ours, then we're not going to recognize yours! So we're just gonna take our ball and go home -type bs... That and the fact that states can make their own laws. So,... yes... ish?
Last edited by Outpost716 on Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why don't some states reciprocate?

Post by Outpost716 »

DougB1946 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:11 pm
State requirements differ. Some states have "constitutional carry" or no requirements to carry. Some have minimal requirements to get a carry permit-short class, get a permit. Others have long classes and a shot for score or no permit. If your state has lower requirements, you don't get reciprocity. Some states want nobody to have a gun and have gone out of their way to make it difficult for their own citizens to carry or own. Pick the party of your choice to see which rights get abridged.
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Re: Why don't some states reciprocate?

Post by Outpost716 »

rolandson wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 7:54 pm
Oregon doesn't play well with others. Why? Because we don't like you. We don't like anyone.
pppppfffftttt.
It feels like that sentiment is pretty pervasive.
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Re: Why don't some states reciprocate?

Post by OldCoastie »

I'm not a New Yorker, but I'm married to one and lived in NYC for 6 years and owned a house in upstate for several years. In NYC I was stationed on Governors Island (I'm retired Coast Guard) and so had no difficulty with ownership. I just stored them in the base armory. But upstate was a different issue. After I retired we moved into our house and I realized I had to do something with my handgun. It was real cheap saturday night special so I just handed it over. to the local PD. No great loss. Better that than going to jail. I still had my long guns which was not a problem. Having looked at the history of the law in NY on gun ownership I got the definite impression, when they passed the Sullivan law and other hand gun ownership laws they simply didn't want anyone having handguns. In NYC it's almost impossible to get a permit, unless you're in law enforcement (technically I was but NYC doesn't see it that way despite Federal court decisions that say Coast Guard active duty are law enforcement) . Anyway, I am now in Washington and have a CCL but I really only got it so that I could ease the purchase of firearms at dealers and shows because otherwise it is torturous. I don't carry. I know my permit would be no good in NY. We visit from time to time, all my wife's family is there. So the bottom line is they simply don't want you to own handguns, and they especially don't want anyone walking around carrying.
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Re: Why don't some states reciprocate?

Post by ErikO »

Some states do not trust their residents to have firearms and will do everything they can to frustrate their residents from having them.

Most of the New England states that saw action in the Revolutionary War have very strict gun laws likely because they fear a resurgence of such actions. Shays' Rebellion scared them senseless.
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Re: Why don't some states reciprocate?

Post by Outpost716 »

OldCoastie wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 12:41 am
I'm not a New Yorker, but I'm married to one and lived in NYC for 6 years and owned a house in upstate for several years. In NYC I was stationed on Governors Island (I'm retired Coast Guard) and so had no difficulty with ownership. I just stored them in the base armory. But upstate was a different issue. After I retired we moved into our house and I realized I had to do something with my handgun. It was real cheap saturday night special so I just handed it over. to the local PD. No great loss. Better that than going to jail. I still had my long guns which was not a problem. Having looked at the history of the law in NY on gun ownership I got the definite impression, when they passed the Sullivan law and other hand gun ownership laws they simply didn't want anyone having handguns. In NYC it's almost impossible to get a permit, unless you're in law enforcement (technically I was but NYC doesn't see it that way despite Federal court decisions that say Coast Guard active duty are law enforcement) . Anyway, I am now in Washington and have a CCL but I really only got it so that I could ease the purchase of firearms at dealers and shows because otherwise it is torturous. I don't carry. I know my permit would be no good in NY. We visit from time to time, all my wife's family is there. So the bottom line is they simply don't want you to own handguns, and they especially don't want anyone walking around carrying.
Veteran to veteran: Thank you for your service. My other half's cousin was a Coastie. I mention that because I can kinda hear his voice in reading your response.

I really appreciate the thoughtful look back at NY history. I'm not a native New Yorker. I'm originally from Washington, D.C. -then got thrown around the globe a bit to far off places some people only dream of seeing; like, Mountain Home, ID, Spangdahlem, Germany, Incirlik, Turkey, Aviano, Italy, ... Syracuse and Oswego, NY... Anyhoo... I appreciate the insight because you really helped fill the gap in my knowledge about New York (in general) and the really weird, oddly-specific differences between downstate and upstate. I'm less confused -in that it's a confusing, belabored, and non-sensical thing that's just... arbitrary (is that the word I want to use?).

Thanks for your reply.

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Re: Why don't some states reciprocate?

Post by Outpost716 »

ErikO wrote:
Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:40 am
Some states do not trust their residents to have firearms and will do everything they can to frustrate their residents from having them.

Most of the New England states that saw action in the Revolutionary War have very strict gun laws likely because they fear a resurgence of such actions. Shays' Rebellion scared them senseless.
I hear ya. And the potential for tragic irony goes something like this: How would those same states' respond to, say, a renewed threat from (for example) the southern states? (I was originally going to go with Canada invading, but c'mon, everyone loves Canada! Loveable scamps that they are!)

Anyway, I feel like that kind of situation would be met with a big old "Whoopsie! Our bad!" as armed wing nuts surge and overtake those states. Even in light of your mentioning Shay's rebellion (interesting history there, btw!), why leave your citizens vulnerable to outside threats? Seems to me someone didn't do a full threat analysis with regard to that particular trade-off.

🤷‍♂️ D'fuq?

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Re: Why don't some states reciprocate?

Post by Outpost716 »

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:36 pm
New Jersey does not have a conceal carry at all. It simply has a carry permit, nearly impossible to get. You have to be either under direct threat or working a security job.
When I was looking at reciprocal states, I noted NJ in particular -not that I was going there (no offense), but just noticed how bullshitty that was. I mean, y'all got that whole Jersey Devil-thing going on and you're walking around unarmed? WTH, man? LOL [bad joke] Seriously though, they're super strict. What's up with that?
Last edited by Outpost716 on Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why don't some states reciprocate?

Post by Outpost716 »

Rossifan1782 wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:15 pm
New Jersey from my very limited reading up on conceal carry seems to require a temporal paradox of being able to wait months but in urgent need from imminent specific threats. How can you possibly be in urgent need but able to wait months?

Reciprocity with other places unless they are Gallifrey just wouldn't make sense. Why allow out of state carry when your own residents would need a TARDIS?
I *just* saw this. This is a joke, right? No? Good f'in grief. That's insane. Funny-as-shit way of putting it, but seriously... WTFF? Or is that just one of those strategies intentionally designed to make it unattainable? Either way, that's really messed up.

Now I don't feel so bad for living in upstate NY. 😉👉😖 (*poke*)

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Re: Why don't some states reciprocate?

Post by OldCoastie »

Veteran to veteran: Thank you for your service. My other half's cousin was a Coastie. I mention that because I can kinda hear his voice in reading your response.
Thanks. And thanks for yours. I've been to some of those places you mentioned. And say Hi to your Cousin. Who knows, we might know each other. It's a small service (smaller than NYPD). If you don't know someone you usually know someone who does.

Anyway, I was thinking about it, and it used to be the only way for an ordinary person to own a handgun in NYC (don't think this applies upstate) was to join a gun club. But you pretty much had to store the gun at the club. I don't know if that rule still exists. That was back in the 60's and 70's.

Of course all of this is rather ridiculous because all one has to do is read the New York Daily news to see how many shootings there are in NYC. Obviously those people don't care about the law.

And there are exceptions. Back in 68-69 I was on the Security Force at the Coast Guard Base on Governors Island and we would frequently be required to go to the city in uniform, armed, to guard prisoners, and escort bank personnel (we had a bank on the island) from the city to the island. No one so much as batted an eyelash.
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