Biden calls for gun ban

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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

Post by damnitman »

sikacz wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:38 pm
And this is just one of the reasons I won't be casting a vote in November.
So, a single issue determines your voting or not voting? Do you not care about all of the other serious, even deadly, problems the nation is facing?
At this point in this election we have a binary choice, if you choose to sit on the sidelines, you indicate that you are happy for others to determine your future. I see that as a cowardly stand.

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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

Post by damnitman »

The OP's title is a typical propaganda tactic. It is, on its face, a lie. Biden has not called for a "Gun Ban." Don't take my word for it, see what Biden has to say about it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 011344002/

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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

Post by ZenArcade »

I’m not so sure that Biden (or Trump) has the capacity to identify various gun types accurately, or that statements he makes should be believed.

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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

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damnitman wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:29 am
The OP's title is a typical propaganda tactic. It is, on its face, a lie. Biden has not called for a "Gun Ban." Don't take my word for it, see what Biden has to say about it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 011344002/
An "Assault Weapon Ban" is most certainly a gun ban.

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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

Post by sikacz »

damnitman wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:19 am
sikacz wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:38 pm
And this is just one of the reasons I won't be casting a vote in November.
So, a single issue determines your voting or not voting? Do you not care about all of the other serious, even deadly, problems the nation is facing?
At this point in this election we have a binary choice, if you choose to sit on the sidelines, you indicate that you are happy for others to determine your future. I see that as a cowardly stand.
Damnitman, do you have a reading comprehension issue?
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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

Post by sikacz »

featureless wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:29 pm
damnitman wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:29 am
The OP's title is a typical propaganda tactic. It is, on its face, a lie. Biden has not called for a "Gun Ban." Don't take my word for it, see what Biden has to say about it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 011344002/
An "Assault Weapon Ban" is most certainly a gun ban.
I suspect reading comprehension issues or party blindness.
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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

Post by sikacz »

It's pretty simple, address the root causes of violence. It's not the tool or method, it's people and their societal conditions that drive violence. I have no problem with addressing violence, I have a problem with framing violence as "gun violence" and ignoring all other forms of violence. Bans are simply not the solution and any candidate and party simplistic enough to push such a solution doesn't deserve my consideration. This is a gun forum, for the reading impaired I have many more reasons and I've stated them in other threads and don't intend to do it anymore. It's simple, biden has endorsed and promised to ban given the chance. I won't bother to post the numerous links, our new batch of pre-election "gun enthusiasts" would dismiss them anyway. Make your own judgement calls, it's called democracy.
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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

Post by Rust »

All I can find is, Biden retweeted a tweet that he tweeted months ago, and fake right news said he's going to take everybody's guns away.
I'm a single-issue voter this year. I'm voting against trump, so I'm voting for Biden, as soon as the ballot comes in the mail.

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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

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Biden's own words from his opinion piece in NYT.
We have a huge problem with guns. Assault weapons — military-style firearms designed to fire rapidly — are a threat to our national security, and we should treat them as such. Anyone who pretends there’s nothing we can do is lying — and holding that view should be disqualifying for anyone seeking to lead our country.

I know, because with Senator Dianne Feinstein I led the effort to enact the 1994 law that banned assault weapons and high-capacity magazines for 10 years. Those gun safety reforms made our nation demonstrably more secure.
The 1994 assault weapons and high-capacity magazines bans worked.

And if I am elected president, we’re going to pass them again — and this time, we’ll make them even stronger. We’re going to stop gun manufacturers from circumventing the law by making minor modifications to their products — modifications that leave them just as deadly. And this time, we’re going to pair it with a buyback program to get as many assault weapons off our streets as possible as quickly as possible.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/11/opin ... apons.html

Sure sounds like Biden is saying he will vigorously push for an assault weapon ban. You see, military weapons (which they are not) hold the key to solving gun violence (which they don't), proved by the demonstrable drop in assault weapon violence from the last federal ban (which there was not).

So, a whole lot of bullshit.
sikacz wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:01 pm
It's pretty simple, address the root causes of violence. It's not the tool or method, it's people and their societal conditions that drive violence. I have no problem with addressing violence, I have a problem with framing violence as "gun violence" and ignoring all other forms of violence.
This. By pretending to address gun violence with an assault weapon ban (all rifles are responsible for +/-400 deaths/year while handguns are +/-10,000/year, not including suicides) is just factual bullshit. It's lying for a vote that will do fuckall to reduce gun violence and very much infringe on a constitutional right at the foundation of being secure in your own home and secure from your own tyrannical government (sometimes defined or preceded by disarming its people). Sure, there'll be a grandfather clause, which begs the question: have you no fucks to give about future generations' rights?

If'n ya want to vote Biden (and I probably will, despite the bile), at least do so with your eyes wide open and don't pretend he won't do what he says.
Last edited by featureless on Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

Post by sikacz »

featureless wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:55 pm
Biden's own words from his opinion piece in NYT.
We have a huge problem with guns. Assault weapons — military-style firearms designed to fire rapidly — are a threat to our national security, and we should treat them as such. Anyone who pretends there’s nothing we can do is lying — and holding that view should be disqualifying for anyone seeking to lead our country.

I know, because with Senator Dianne Feinstein I led the effort to enact the 1994 law that banned assault weapons and high-capacity magazines for 10 years. Those gun safety reforms made our nation demonstrably more secure.
The 1994 assault weapons and high-capacity magazines bans worked.

And if I am elected president, we’re going to pass them again — and this time, we’ll make them even stronger. We’re going to stop gun manufacturers from circumventing the law by making minor modifications to their products — modifications that leave them just as deadly. And this time, we’re going to pair it with a buyback program to get as many assault weapons off our streets as possible as quickly as possible.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/11/opin ... apons.html

Sure sounds like Biden is saying he will vigorously push for an assault weapon ban. You see, military weapons (which they are not) hold the key to solving gun violence (which they don't), proved by the demonstrable drop in assault weapon violence from the last federal ban (which there was not).

So, a whole lot of bullshit.
:clap2: :clap2: :clap2: There's plenty more out there. Those who deny it have their own axe to grind. Knowing a candidate's history is critical to an informed decision. I voten for obama/biden twice, I would have abstained if it had been biden/obama. That said obama failed to deliver on the reasons I voted for him.
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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

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An American even must accept George Carlin's position on voting. Freedom is untidy, and democracy is a messy business; a republic, more so.

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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

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someone needs to edjumacate joe about guns. surely there' a liberal out there somewhere who knows the difference between a clip and a magazine?

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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

Post by damnitman »

sikacz wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:35 pm
damnitman wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:19 am
sikacz wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:38 pm
And this is just one of the reasons I won't be casting a vote in November.
So, a single issue determines your voting or not voting? Do you not care about all of the other serious, even deadly, problems the nation is facing?
At this point in this election we have a binary choice, if you choose to sit on the sidelines, you indicate that you are happy for others to determine your future. I see that as a cowardly stand.
Damnitman, do you have a reading comprehension issue?
No, me calling you a coward was the result of my reading your post. But now I see that you have additional problems too.

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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

Post by featureless »

damnitman wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:48 pm
sikacz wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:35 pm
damnitman wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:19 am
sikacz wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:38 pm
And this is just one of the reasons I won't be casting a vote in November.
So, a single issue determines your voting or not voting? Do you not care about all of the other serious, even deadly, problems the nation is facing?
At this point in this election we have a binary choice, if you choose to sit on the sidelines, you indicate that you are happy for others to determine your future. I see that as a cowardly stand.
Damnitman, do you have a reading comprehension issue?
No, me calling you a coward was the result of my reading your post. But now I see that you have additional problems too.
Easy on the names. People can vigorously debate and disagree without the names. Save 'em for Trump.

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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

Post by lurker »

chill everyone. i happen to disagree with sikacz' position but there's nothing to be gained by belaboring the point any further.

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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

Post by sikacz »

Being called a coward doesn’t bother me one bit, I ignored it. Seems it means something to some. What bothers me making false statements about what I wrote.
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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

Post by Buck13 »

harriss wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 1:13 pm
Mandatory buy backs are unenforceable.
And the term "buy back" is logically offensive. The .gov can't buy back something it never owned. Unless you bought it from the CMP, it's not a buy back.

Not that it matters to anyone less pedantic, but this strikes me as semiotic flimflammery. I don't get the appeal of the term. Does "buy out" sound less effective?
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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

Post by Buck13 »

featureless wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:55 pm
Biden's own words from his opinion piece in NYT.
We have a huge problem with guns. Assault weapons — military-style firearms designed to fire rapidly — are a threat to our national security, and we should treat them as such. Anyone who pretends there’s nothing we can do is lying — and holding that view should be disqualifying for anyone seeking to lead our country.

I know, because with Senator Dianne Feinstein I led the effort to enact the 1994 law that banned assault weapons and high-capacity magazines for 10 years. Those gun safety reforms made our nation demonstrably more secure.
The 1994 assault weapons and high-capacity magazines bans worked.

And if I am elected president, we’re going to pass them again — and this time, we’ll make them even stronger. We’re going to stop gun manufacturers from circumventing the law by making minor modifications to their products — modifications that leave them just as deadly. And this time, we’re going to pair it with a buyback program to get as many assault weapons off our streets as possible as quickly as possible.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/11/opin ... apons.html

Sure sounds like Biden is saying he will vigorously push for an assault weapon ban. You see, military weapons (which they are not) hold the key to solving gun violence (which they don't), proved by the demonstrable drop in assault weapon violence from the last federal ban (which there was not).

So, a whole lot of bullshit.
sikacz wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:01 pm

It's pretty simple, address the root causes of violence. It's not the tool or method, it's people and their societal conditions that drive violence. I have no problem with addressing violence, I have a problem with framing violence as "gun violence" and ignoring all other forms of violence.
This. By pretending to address gun violence with an assault weapon ban (all rifles are responsible for +/-400 deaths/year while handguns are +/-10,000/year, not including suicides) is just factual bullshit. It's lying for a vote that will do fuckall to reduce gun violence and very much infringe on a constitutional right at the foundation of being secure in your own home and secure from your own tyrannical government (sometimes defined or preceded by disarming its people). Sure, there'll be a grandfather clause, which begs the question: have you no fucks to give about future generations' rights?

If'n ya want to vote Biden (and I probably will, despite the bile), at least do so with your eyes wide open and don't pretend he won't do what he says.
I can't believe the Ds won't STFU about guns until November 4! Do they really think they need *that* to motivate voters against Trump? What about corruption, Social Security, Medicare, RBG, two to four times more dead from The Cov than in competently run countries, Russian bounties, and "what's in it for them?" Campaign on those things!

All they're going to do with gun control is suppress the vote of Obama/Trump voters. They failed to get to 270 votes in 2016 based on an 80,000 person margin-of-failure in three states. Yeah, they could have campaigned better there and possibly made that up, but I'm pretty damned sure at least 80,000 guys (mostly guys) in those states noticed that since December 2012, the Ds had unveiled their priapic hard-on for gun control again, and decided to vote for Trump or just stay home as a result.

The demographic inevitability the Ds see coming isn't quite here yet. They still need *some* white guy votes in FL, NC, PA, WI, and MI to get to 270. Talking about guns is just going to make it harder to produce Obama/Trump/Biden voters.
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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

Post by featureless »

Buck13 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:51 pm
I can't believe the Ds won't STFU about guns until November 4! Do they really think they need *that* to motivate voters against Trump? What about corruption, Social Security, Medicare, RBG, two to four times more dead from The Cov than in competently run countries, Russian bounties, and "what's in it for them?" Campaign on those things!
Precisely. I'm a serious Biden wobbler because I'm not comfortable with trading away a right for "not Trump." Especially when, if Biden wins and replaces the next justice, SCOTUS won't do shit to stop a ban (they've currently shown they have no stomach for it, even with Trump's appointments). Now, if he'd STFU about gun bans, I'd have a much easier time voting for a guy who's status quo on things that otherwise desperately need attention. He's not nearly progressive enough for my tastes and is entirely owned by corporations. Couple that with taking away my "evil rifles" (yes, if his proposed legislation passes, my ARs will need to be sold/confiscated/destroyed because CA doesn't allow NFA items) and he's way on the wrong side of meh.

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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

Post by sikacz »

featureless wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:01 pm
Buck13 wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:51 pm
I can't believe the Ds won't STFU about guns until November 4! Do they really think they need *that* to motivate voters against Trump? What about corruption, Social Security, Medicare, RBG, two to four times more dead from The Cov than in competently run countries, Russian bounties, and "what's in it for them?" Campaign on those things!
Precisely. I'm a serious Biden wobbler because I'm not comfortable with trading away a right for "not Trump." Especially when, if Biden wins and replaces the next justice, SCOTUS won't do shit to stop a ban (they've currently shown they have no stomach for it, even with Trump's appointments). Now, if he'd STFU about gun bans, I'd have a much easier time voting for a guy who's status quo on things that otherwise desperately need attention. He's not nearly progressive enough for my tastes and is entirely owned by corporations. Couple that with taking away my "evil rifles" (yes, if his proposed legislation passes, my ARs will need to be sold/confiscated/destroyed because CA doesn't allow NFA items) and he's way on the wrong side of meh.
That "unity candidate" pitch isn't very convincing.
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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

Post by rolandson »

sikacz wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:01 pm
I have no problem with addressing violence, I have a problem with framing violence as "gun violence" and ignoring all other forms of violence. Bans are simply not the solution and any candidate and party simplistic enough to push such a solution doesn't deserve my consideration.
Bang. And there it is.
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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

Post by Rust »

Trump, February, 2018.
"I like taking guns away early. Take the guns first, go through due process second."

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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

Post by featureless »

Rust wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:52 pm
Trump, February, 2018.
"I like taking guns away early. Take the guns first, go through due process second."
Yup. However, I don't think a single one of us has suggested voting for Trump.

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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

Post by YankeeTarheel »

featureless wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:01 pm
Rust wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:52 pm
Trump, February, 2018.
"I like taking guns away early. Take the guns first, go through due process second."
Yup. However, I don't think a single one of us has suggested voting for Trump.
The point is, Dems' attempts to take guns are via legal means and haven't gotten further than the Cali and NJ limits--but Democrats stick to doing it by THE LAW and that's why it's not that scary. Plus, Trump's judges may only have 1 thing going for them--they don't like Dems' gun control.

BUT----TRUMP wants to take your guns away OUTSIDE the Law, Disregarding the Law, ignoring Due Process and....using the Power of the Pardon to PREVENT the Law from doing anything about his illegal seizures. And you KNOW those same Trump judges will clear the way for him to just order his thugs to seize them...and arrest for the "crime" of not wanting Trump as dictator.

That's why I have NO problem voting for Biden and the Democrats. Dems believe in the law for everyone. ReThugs only believe laws apply to Dems.
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Re: Biden calls for gun ban

Post by wings »

Obama already pushed for an assault weapons ban and magazine limits. It didn't fly then.

I guess if you were okay voting for Obama despite his support for restricting gun rights, but are not okay with Biden proposing the same, knowing full well that the votes aren't there in the Senate, there isn't any flaming hypocrisy involved.

But then, why do I smell smoke?
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/obama-t ... d=18981374
As anticipated, the Senate also failed to pass the assault weapons ban, by a vote of 40-60.
The Senate won't pass it. They couldn't get past forty. Quit the clutching.

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