In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#101 Post by featureless » Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:02 pm

DispositionMatrix wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:57 pm
featureless wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:40 pm
Well, cops swore an oath to uphold the Constitution. The new Dem crew is threatening legal action, potentially use of force against them. It's a pretty fucked situation. I'm surprised at the lack of media coverage. This is some serious shit that could go catastrophically wrong. Here's hoping for a peaceful resolution.
Threaten the pensions of the LEOs, and they'll be more than happy to kill whoever fails to comply with the new firearm prohibition regime.
Maybe. But LEOs have to go home some time. They'd be killing neighbors which might make the LEO's neighbors a bit edgy. Those LEOs also have families to think about. It's not a good situation that the politicians are putting people in, LEO or otherwise. Someone very well might get hurt or dead.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#102 Post by DispositionMatrix » Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:19 pm

featureless wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:02 pm
DispositionMatrix wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:57 pm
featureless wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:40 pm
Well, cops swore an oath to uphold the Constitution. The new Dem crew is threatening legal action, potentially use of force against them. It's a pretty fucked situation. I'm surprised at the lack of media coverage. This is some serious shit that could go catastrophically wrong. Here's hoping for a peaceful resolution.
Threaten the pensions of the LEOs, and they'll be more than happy to kill whoever fails to comply with the new firearm prohibition regime.
Maybe. But LEOs have to go home some time. They'd be killing neighbors which might make the LEO's neighbors a bit edgy. Those LEOs also have families to think about.
With pensions at stake, I doubt LEOs could possibly care less about trivialities like neighbors, especially if they can ensure those neighbors are disarmed.
featureless wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:02 pm
It's not a good situation that the politicians are putting people in, LEO or otherwise. Someone very well might get hurt or dead.
I doubt the politicians could care less about the lives of proles.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#103 Post by DispositionMatrix » Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:25 pm

Hampton:
NAACP speaks out against making Hampton a Second Amendment sanctuary city
“It’s a lot of guns on the street. Why do people need assault weapons?” she adds.

She’s against the idea of cities not enforcing laws if proposed gun laws are passed. She wasn’t the only one there who feels this way.

“We are asking for sensible gun laws,” says one woman at the podium.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#104 Post by VodoundaVinci » Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:08 pm

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... un-control

'
The law is the law': Virginia Democrats float prosecution, National Guard deployment if police don't enforce gun control - Democratic Virginia Rep. Donald McEachin suggested cutting off state funds to counties that do not comply with any gun control measures that pass in Richmond.

“They certainly risk funding, because if the sheriff's department is not going to enforce the law, they're going to lose money. The counties' attorneys offices are not going to have the money to prosecute because their prosecutions are going to go down,” he said.

McEachin also noted that Democratic Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam could call the National Guard, if necessary.

“And ultimately, I'm not the governor, but the governor may have to nationalize the National Guard to enforce the law,” he said. “That's his call, because I don't know how serious these counties are and how severe the violations of law will be. But that's obviously an option he has.”
So this guy wants the National Guard to enforce laws that county LE has said they will not enforce if the legislation is unconstitutional/illegal? He's cool with soldiers forcing enforcement of illegal laws?

I can't believe it. :no: :thumbsdown: :weep:

Why do people need assault weapons? Because our Representation and Politicians want the Military to confront them. Now more than ever we can not allow ourselves to be disarmed....the very reason for the 2A is coming to Life before my eyes. I have to say, I have feared this kind of thing since I was old enough to shoot and understand. American soldiers potentially using force against Civilians and LE to enforce an illegal law?

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#105 Post by DispositionMatrix » Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:17 pm

I was waiting for a valid source on those alleged comments by Democratic Virginia Rep. Donald McEachin.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#106 Post by featureless » Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:22 pm

DispositionMatrix wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:19 pm
featureless wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:02 pm
DispositionMatrix wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:57 pm
featureless wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:40 pm
Well, cops swore an oath to uphold the Constitution. The new Dem crew is threatening legal action, potentially use of force against them. It's a pretty fucked situation. I'm surprised at the lack of media coverage. This is some serious shit that could go catastrophically wrong. Here's hoping for a peaceful resolution.
Threaten the pensions of the LEOs, and they'll be more than happy to kill whoever fails to comply with the new firearm prohibition regime.
Maybe. But LEOs have to go home some time. They'd be killing neighbors which might make the LEO's neighbors a bit edgy. Those LEOs also have families to think about.
With pensions at stake, I doubt LEOs could possibly care less about trivialities like neighbors, especially if they can ensure those neighbors are disarmed.
I take your point but will add, in my little neighborhood, there is evidence that collections in safes viewed through open garages would overwhelm my town's entire police force... in one block. That's in the northern Bay Area, liberal central (with a strong dose of Bernie Bros and Tump asshats). I strongly suspect that voluntary turn in in my hood would be around zero percent should confiscation occur (California politicians' wet dream).

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#107 Post by featureless » Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:24 pm

DispositionMatrix wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 4:17 pm
I was waiting for a valid source on those alleged comments by Democratic Virginia Rep. Donald McEachin.
Don't know what you consider valid (most media isn't covering), but there's this:
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2019/1 ... sequences/
Could very well be group think.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#108 Post by blackcarbine » Thu Dec 12, 2019 7:01 pm

So Northam’s office seemed to indicate on Monday that in a potential final draft of the bill, pre ban firearms would be grandfathered as long as they were registered. While I don’t like it from a big brother standpoint, is registration constitutionally defensible even if the ban is not?

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#109 Post by DispositionMatrix » Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:58 pm

sbɐɯ ʎʇıɔɐdɐɔ pɹɐpuɐʇs ɟo ןןnɟ ǝɟɐs
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13ʞ
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"ǝuıqɹɐɔ ʇuǝɯǝɔɹoɟuǝ ʍɐן sʇןoɔ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- 0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#110 Post by DispositionMatrix » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:01 pm

blackcarbine wrote:So Northam’s office seemed to indicate on Monday that in a potential final draft of the bill, pre ban firearms would be grandfathered as long as they were registered. While I don’t like it from a big brother standpoint, is registration constitutionally defensible even if the ban is not?
Given registration's true purpose, I'll go with no, but some in ban states seem to be content with theirs.
sbɐɯ ʎʇıɔɐdɐɔ pɹɐpuɐʇs ɟo ןןnɟ ǝɟɐs
ɯɯ6 bdd ɹǝɥʇןɐʍ
13ʞ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ 1ɐ4ɯ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- ɯoɔos0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
"ǝuıqɹɐɔ ʇuǝɯǝɔɹoɟuǝ ʍɐן sʇןoɔ" dɯɐʇsןןoɹ --- 0269ǝן ʇןoɔ
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#111 Post by K9s » Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:17 pm

DispositionMatrix wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:01 pm
blackcarbine wrote:So Northam’s office seemed to indicate on Monday that in a potential final draft of the bill, pre ban firearms would be grandfathered as long as they were registered. While I don’t like it from a big brother standpoint, is registration constitutionally defensible even if the ban is not?
Given registration's true purpose, I'll go with no, but some in ban states seem to be content with theirs.
If the option is register or become a felon, it seems that keeping the receipt is a legitimate compromise. Why not just accept that instead of demanding registration?
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#112 Post by Tedzilla » Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:03 am

"The Governor's threat of using the National Guard to enforce unconstitutional gun-laws if localities become 2A Sanctuaries wasn't even a speed bump for the tsunami coming his way! Tonight, 7 localities became sanctuaries and we missed one from Monday. The total is now 91 localities! (See new photos and complete list of current sanctuaries on the http://VCDL.org main page.)"-VCDL
"Virginia is divided into 95 counties and 38 independent cities, the latter acting in many ways as county-equivalents.[108] This general method of treating cities and counties on par with each other is unique to Virginia; only three other independent cities exist elsewhere in the United States, each in a different state.[109] Virginia limits the authority of cities and counties to countermand laws expressly allowed by the Virginia General Assembly under what is known as Dillon's Rule."-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia
The 2nd Amendment sanctuary numbers are significant, as are Governor Ralph Northam's threats.
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#113 Post by VodoundaVinci » Fri Dec 13, 2019 7:15 am

K9s wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:17 pm
If the option is register or become a felon, it seems that keeping the receipt is a legitimate compromise. Why not just accept that instead of demanding registration?
All of my guns have been legally transferred thru an FFL - aren't FFL holders required to keep records forever or at least way long enough to prove legitimate ownership and legal transfer? That's all the "registration" they get from me. But we all know why "they" want Registration. So that the numbers and holders can be released/hacked/used legally or illegally to pinpoint exactly how many of what type there are and who exactly has them. Makes it that much easier for the Military to pinpoint them and get them. Registration is infringement - infringement is illegal/unconstitutional. Nope. I Will Not Comply.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#114 Post by frankr » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:28 am

DispositionMatrix wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:57 pm
featureless wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:40 pm
Well, cops swore an oath to uphold the Constitution. The new Dem crew is threatening legal action, potentially use of force against them. It's a pretty fucked situation. I'm surprised at the lack of media coverage. This is some serious shit that could go catastrophically wrong. Here's hoping for a peaceful resolution.
Threaten the pensions of the LEOs, and they'll be more than happy to kill whoever fails to comply with the new firearm prohibition regime.
You are probably right about that.
Among soldiers there is a higher percentage of guys who take their oath seriously. Or guys who just want a reason to start doing stuff.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#115 Post by featureless » Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:56 pm

Lesson to be learned by Virginia Dems: Boil frogs slowly, lest the fuckers jump out.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#116 Post by K9s » Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:28 pm

I seriously wonder if you are just listening to the loudest voices. Gun control is popular with the majority of Virginians. I guess we will find out in the next elections, but I am not so sure this is going to turn VA back to red.

Again, I am not defending the gun control position. I am just looking at polls and recent elections. It is a blue state now and mostly because of mass shootings. The GOP ignored the will of the voters surrounding gun control measures and it really backfired on them.
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#117 Post by featureless » Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:36 pm

If you're talking to me, yeah, it might be the loudest voices thing. It's fascinating to me, since CA went dark on the 2A.

And there's this:
Image
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#118 Post by featureless » Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:04 pm

K9s, regarding loud voices (and I'm pretty ignorant on Virginia politics), as of today, 91 of Virginia's 95 counties have declared 2A sanctuaries. This is not indicative of broad support for the type of gun restrictions being proposed by the new VA gov. This is, to my naive mind, more indicative of grass roots, 1000s showing up at meetings, "no" from the people. I've never witnessed its like in California--perhaps on a more local scale regarding other issues, but not state-wide. Granted, I wasn't born during the civil rights movement here, so maybe it happened then.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#119 Post by VodoundaVinci » Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:44 pm

I still think it's possible (likely probable) that a significant number of the people who have turned up for 2A Sanctuary support are, indeed, Democrats who voted for the current Governor and crew. They wanted the Democrat Platform minus the Gun BullShit and are now telling the Governor that we elected you but we will not tolerate Infringement of the 2A.

I know a few in Virginia (literally 3 people so not representative) and all 3 are long time Democrats who voted for Democrat control but not on board with the anti 2A thing which they suspected was "lip service" to placate The Moms.

Now they are telling the Governor *NO!* and supporting 2A Sanctuary status. There is plenty for Democrats to do and they can fuck with gun legislation when they have endeavored to legislate real solutions in other areas.

This might be the first message of Democrats telling The Party that they do not want illegal legislation as part of the Platform. Some folks, including the three I know in VA, are tired of Black and White/one party or the other choice. They want clean water and air initiatives. They want pro choice, they want SS and Medicare and all that but they do not want the "bundle" where if you get clean air and water you give up another Right to get it. Tired of that now as many of US are.

This is the same initiative that is driving 2A Sanctuary Status here in Illinois. We want Democrats but we are telling them hands off the guns. Some of US don't want "The Bundle" - we want our Democrats to go ala carte and do what we tell them to do. No to do what the DNC Platform tells them to do.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#120 Post by K9s » Fri Dec 13, 2019 5:01 pm

featureless wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:04 pm
K9s, regarding loud voices (and I'm pretty ignorant on Virginia politics), as of today, 91 of Virginia's 95 counties have declared 2A sanctuaries. This is not indicative of broad support for the type of gun restrictions being proposed by the new VA gov. This is, to my naive mind, more indicative of grass roots, 1000s showing up at meetings, "no" from the people. I've never witnessed its like in California--perhaps on a more local scale regarding other issues, but not state-wide. Granted, I wasn't born during the civil rights movement here, so maybe it happened then.
We'll see in 2020. The Tea Party looked really "grassroots" because the Kochs were willing to spend enough to make it look like that. I am not convinced because we saw this happen with the Tea Party. It was all lies and oligarchy backed.

I do think that this move, like the VA GOP refusing to compromise on gun control, will make compromise impossible and a Californication of the VA laws inevitable. The anti-2A voters still remember Charlottesville.
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#121 Post by Tedzilla » Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:24 pm

The only reactionary oligarchs I'm seeing in Virginia is the one that outspent the NRA 8 to 1... some financier/media billionaire, I forget his name.
I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT'S BEHIND IT

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#122 Post by featureless » Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:49 pm

Tedzilla wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 6:24 pm
The only reactionary oligarchs I'm seeing in Virginia is the one that outspent the NRA 8 to 1... some financier/media billionaire, I forget his name.
Today, Everytown for Gun Safety Action Fund announced that it has endorsed 25 candidates for elected office in Virginia’s 2019 elections. Included in the 25 endorsements are candidates running in 22 of the most competitive districts in the Commonwealth, and three Moms Demand Action volunteers: Laura Jane Cohen running for Fairfax County School Board, Michael Hammond running for Fauquier County School Board and David Zilles running for state representative in House District 23. As part of its $2.5 million effort to elect a gun sense majority in Virginia’s General Assembly — Everytown’s most robust commitment ever in the Commonwealth — Everytown for Gun Safety Action Fund also announced that it is contributing $125,000 to the Virginia Senate Democratic Caucus, $100,000 to the Virginia House Democratic Caucus, $100,000 to Take the Majority (Democratic Party of Virginia), and making $113,000 in direct contributions to candidates running for the Virginia General Assembly.
https://bluevirginia.us/2019/09/va-hous ... 4605347314

Don't know what the NRA put into it, but the anti-gun lobby put in at least $2.5 million.

Edited to add this on the NRA.
National Rifle Association donated $200,000 to the political action committee of House Majority Leader Todd Gilbert (R-Shenandoah). That’s by far the NRA’s largest one-time contribution in Virginia in at least the past 20 years, according to the nonpartisan Virginia Public Access Project. The NRA has contributed a total of about $800,000 directly to candidates over that same time frame, according to VPAP.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/vi ... story.html

Also edited to add: no defense of the NRA here, just looking to parse the "it's the NRA, not grassroots" mantra going on over the sanctuary status stuff. Looks like the anti-gun lobby (not that we call them that--more like "crusaders for the children") is clobbering the NRA.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#123 Post by frankr » Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:53 pm

The NRA has been totally absent.
The fact the national guard felt they needed to issue a statement speaks volumes to how volatile the situation has become.
I don't know who is in charge of this, but the governor is hell bent on disarming the people of Virginia, and he seems perfectly willing to cause any amount of violence to make it happen.
Water is wet, the sky is blue, and the vast majority of Virginia is telling the governor to go pound sand. And they mean it. He should stop. This is no longer about democrat vs republican.

It is odd he media is trying to ignore this. Very odd.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#124 Post by frankr » Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:28 pm

VodoundaVinci wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:44 pm
I still think it's possible (likely probable) that a significant number of the people who have turned up for 2A Sanctuary support are, indeed, Democrats who voted for the current Governor and crew. They wanted the Democrat Platform minus the Gun BullShit and are now telling the Governor that we elected you but we will not tolerate Infringement of the 2A.

I know a few in Virginia (literally 3 people so not representative) and all 3 are long time Democrats who voted for Democrat control but not on board with the anti 2A thing which they suspected was "lip service" to placate The Moms.

Now they are telling the Governor *NO!* and supporting 2A Sanctuary status. There is plenty for Democrats to do and they can fuck with gun legislation when they have endeavored to legislate real solutions in other areas.

This might be the first message of Democrats telling The Party that they do not want illegal legislation as part of the Platform. Some folks, including the three I know in VA, are tired of Black and White/one party or the other choice. They want clean water and air initiatives. They want pro choice, they want SS and Medicare and all that but they do not want the "bundle" where if you get clean air and water you give up another Right to get it. Tired of that now as many of US are.

This is the same initiative that is driving 2A Sanctuary Status here in Illinois. We want Democrats but we are telling them hands off the guns. Some of US don't want "The Bundle" - we want our Democrats to go ala carte and do what we tell them to do. No to do what the DNC Platform tells them to do.

VooDoo
Conservatives/(republicans) have gotten themselves into the same situation with the christian morality laws. Though unlike the democrats who could just walk away from the out of state money and gun control, if republicans walk away from the morality laws they will lose a huge chunk of their active voting base. They really are fucked. Or rather, us moderates are fucked.
I don't know what has happened to this country, but it is all bad. Probably very profitable for a few. Bastards.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

#125 Post by K9s » Sat Dec 14, 2019 1:00 am

I don't even know what a "moderate" is these days, frankr. Most "moderate" Dems are just what were called in the 1980s moderate Republicans, in terms of policy.

Of course, we don't really have moderates here, so maybe that is the problem. All the self-described "moderate" Dems are conservatives who can't make it out of the Dem primaries or win a general election here anymore.
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