In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by K9s »

Why didn't these people just stick with affordable housing, food security, and medicaid expansion? I'm sure some Virginians would appreciate basic necessities. Oh, well....
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

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lurker wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:38 pm
frankr wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:19 pm
I should probably shoot her an email or something.
yes you should.
You know what? You're right.
And also she had said she wants to get her son out here to get him trained on guns, and learn they are tools not "fashion statements" . I guess she and I just got busy. That happens. I'll see if I can catch up to her. He is very cool.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by VodoundaVinci »

I remain very optimistic that our General Assembly will not pass the proposed bills. Obviously, if passed, there are many of us willing to challenge these laws through the courts. In addition, if necessary, I plan to properly screen and deputize thousands of our law-abiding citizens to protect their constitutional right to own firearms."

-Sheriff Scott Jenkins

“A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves...and include all men capable of bearing arms.” (1788)

-Richard Henry Lee

https://www.facebook.com/culpepersherif ... &__tn__=-R

VooDoo
No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by frankr »

Our attorney general just said they will pass these laws, everybody will comply. He really should stop. He is not making any friends.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by VodoundaVinci »

Looks like gun owners and law enforcement are pretty adamant about not enforcing and resisting enforcement. He might wanna shut the fuck up until/if the laws actually pass. Within weeks dozens of Counties have declared themselves as "we will not comply" counties and this kind of massive outcry does not happen when people are apathetic. I'm curious - the State of Virginia turns Blue in the last election yet literally *millions* are now supporting town/county meetings to send a message to the new Blue Rulers that they need to leave the proposed gun rights infringements at the door.

Could this be the first of a coming trend in Democrat Politics where Democrats are being elected and then told by their constituency to fuck off on the infringement? I'm finding it hard to believe all the people clamoring for Sanctuary County status are all Republicans or Conservatives when the State voted to turn control over to Democrats. I'm of the opinion that mass numbers of Democrats voted for Democrat candidates and are now telling those elected officials that they will not comply with gun /2A infringement.

Ideas?

VooDoo
No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by K9s »

The recent abortion bans in red states caused a lot of consternation, too.

I bet VA has really high voter turnout in 2020. Gun control has been the best issue for Dems in VA since 2017. Why would they stop now?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/dougschoen ... 4f52db1c5b
My firm conducted similar polling in the aftermath of Virginia’s 2017 elections. In 2017, gun issues ranked as the third most important issue to voters, helping elect Northam as Governor.

In 2019, voters ranked a candidate’s position on guns as their number one issue overall (28%)—ahead of jobs and the economy (24%) and health care (24%). Moreover, an astounding 83 percent of voters said that gun issues were important to them.

Among those voters who ranked gun issues as their top voting issue, 66 percent voted for Democratic candidates in the election, compared with just 32 percent who voted for Republicans — demonstrating the potency of gun safety as an election issue. Not only have Democrats closed the intensity gap that used to favor Republicans — they have now opened a decisive gap in their favor.

Taken together, our polling and the election results themselves showed that Republicans made colossal political and policy mistakes in the aftermath of a mass shooting at the Virginia Beach Municipal Center in May, which left 12 people dead and another four wounded.

Put simply, our polling shows that this election was more of a referendum on Republicans’ gun policies than on President Trump himself.
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by VodoundaVinci »

So, they elected Democrats to get rid of guns and now huge numbers of them are forming 2A Sanctuary counties to resist the laws they voted to get??

Something dun't smell right about this....

VooDoo
No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by K9s »

VodoundaVinci wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:55 pm
So, they elected Democrats to get rid of guns and now huge numbers of them are forming 2A Sanctuary counties to resist the laws they voted to get??

Something dun't smell right about this....

VooDoo
Right. The "huge numbers" of pro-2A are in red counties. They are vocal, but are not the majority. This happens in blue states.

Needles CA: Second Amendment Sanctuary
https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... ornia-town
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by VodoundaVinci »

So a State of majority Red Counties is gonna be run by a Blue State Government and if they try and retain their Constitutional Rights via We will Not Comply, the Blue State Government is gonna...what?

We are doomed. Starting with Virginia.

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No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by Tedzilla »

VodoundaVinci wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:55 pm
So, they elected Democrats to get rid of guns and now huge numbers of them are forming 2A Sanctuary counties to resist the laws they voted to get??

Something dun't smell right about this....

VooDoo
I hope this doesn't shock and confuse non-Virginians, but some Virginians voted for Dems in spite of their expressed goal of 'getting rid of guns'.
I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT'S BEHIND IT

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by VodoundaVinci »

That was my point in post #55 - I personally believe this just might be a majority electing Democrats and then telling them "No!" on the gun issues. I'm having a hard time believing all of the folks enacting 2A Sanctuary status are Republicans.

We/they want Democrat properties except for the "Hell yeah, we are gonna take your guns." part of it. Maybe?

VooDoo
No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by K9s »

VodoundaVinci wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:57 pm
So a State of majority Red Counties is gonna be run by a Blue State Government and if they try and retain their Constitutional Rights via We will Not Comply, the Blue State Government is gonna...what?

We are doomed. Starting with Virginia.

VooDoo
Ummmm..... in Red States, the blue cities are controlled by the GOP governor and gerrymandered legislature. Taxation without representation.

How is that OK then? Making abortion a "murder" and prosecuting doctors and patients for murder? Non-compliance seems like a bad choice for that, too. Majority rules, I guess.
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by VodoundaVinci »

I don't get it.

Voodoo
No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by blackcarbine »

K9s wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:54 am
Majority rules, I guess.
Only, it’s supposed to take 2/3 to change our constitutional rights, not 51% and not states enacting their own laws to override them. In my opinion the “we won’t comply” has already happened when a state legislature enacts laws in direct conflict with the constitution. By stripping its citizens of their second amendment rights, Virginia would be in open rebellion against the constitution of the US.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by YankeeTarheel »

blackcarbine wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:29 pm
K9s wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 9:54 am
Majority rules, I guess.
Only, it’s supposed to take 2/3 to change our constitutional rights, not 51% and not states enacting their own laws to override them. In my opinion the “we won’t comply” has already happened when a state legislature enacts laws in direct conflict with the constitution. By stripping its citizens of their second amendment rights, Virginia would be in open rebellion against the constitution of the US.
No, it's 3/4 of the states, not 2/3. House and Senate vote 2/3 on amendments , but 3/4 of the states must ratify.
""If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -- LBJ

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

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Even more to the point that a simple majority does not rule when it comes to my constitutional rights

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by YankeeTarheel »

The rules are utterly different when the ReThugs are running things--anything goes for a ReThug, nothing goes for a Dem. When the Dems are running things, anything they do the ReThugs did is "the greatest evil in the history of the world". Every damn one of them.
""If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you." -- LBJ

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by frankr »

Tedzilla wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 1:34 am
VodoundaVinci wrote:
Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:55 pm
So, they elected Democrats to get rid of guns and now huge numbers of them are forming 2A Sanctuary counties to resist the laws they voted to get??

Something dun't smell right about this....

VooDoo
I hope this doesn't shock and confuse non-Virginians, but some Virginians voted for Dems in spite of their expressed goal of 'getting rid of guns'.
I'm pro choice, pro equality, anti war, pro healthcare, and pro gun. So who the fuck am I supposed to vote for?

I suspect a LOT of democrats voted for members of their own party hoping guns would be left alone. Nope. The government has promised they are going after the 2nd amendment as hard as they possibly fucking can. Now those democrats may make a different choice. The government certainly seems like they plan to force Virginians will roll over for this.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

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blackcarbine wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:53 pm
Even more to the point that a simple majority does not rule when it comes to my constitutional rights
We are now best friends. :beer2:

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by awshoot »

It's exactly situations like this -- you know, one big blue city bullying the entirety of a state -- that we have the Electoral College. In my view, there would be more discussion and compromise if states had something similar to EC. If nothing else, at the minimum Reynolds v. Simms should be reversed so that state senates could go back to regional representation rather than merely being a second house of reps based on population -- if that happened it would help alleviate the steamroller effect certain cities have.
Last edited by awshoot on Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by awshoot »

frankr wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:35 pm
I'm pro choice, pro equality, anti war, pro healthcare, and pro gun. So who the fuck am I supposed to vote for?

I suspect a LOT of democrats voted for members of their own party hoping guns would be left alone. Nope. The government has promised they are going after the 2nd amendment as hard as they possibly fucking can. Now those democrats may make a different choice. The government certainly seems like they plan to force Virginians will roll over for this.
Same. I just vote 3d party now as a protest.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by K9s »

blackcarbine wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:53 pm
Even more to the point that a simple majority does not rule when it comes to my constitutional rights
I didn't say it was a good thing. However, it is a real thing to most people.
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by K9s »

awshoot wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:46 pm
It's exactly situations like this -- you know, one big blue city bullying the entirety of a state -- that we have the Electoral College. In my view, there would be more discussion and compromise if states had something similar to EC. If nothing else, at the minimum Reynolds v. Simms should be reversed so that state senates could go back to regional representation rather than merely being a second house of reps based on population -- if that happened it would help alleviate the steamroller effect certain cities have.
No single big blue city "bullies" anyone. That is a right-wing myth we always hear here to rev up the rural voters. The fact that you *somehow* link it to the electoral college means you confuse Federal with State politics like a right-wing radio personality. Are you serious?

A collection of cities, suburbs, and exurbs might have enough voters to outvote rural areas (e.g. California) but no red state has red cities (does anyone?) and the blue cities themselves are not the enemy (except to Trumpian GOP).
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by frankr »

You can keep saying reality is not what it is.

But Virginia is making their point crystal clear. The anti constitution faction of the government should stop.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by blackcarbine »

K9s wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:56 pm
blackcarbine wrote:
Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:53 pm
Even more to the point that a simple majority does not rule when it comes to my constitutional rights
I didn't say it was a good thing. However, it is a real thing to most people.
We’re on the same page - and it seems to me that in the modern era of social media where everyone defends their views to a fault, public opinion has become the new court of law in many people’s eyes. I only hope that SCOTUS does it’s job and protects the entire bill of rights from the whims of the public.

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