Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

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VodoundaVinci
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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

Post by VodoundaVinci »

:oops: Sorry....not understanding.

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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

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some people will try to frame the argument as "guns are like slavery, and defending the 2nd is like defending slavery" but that's a false equivalence that doesn't stand up to even the most cursory scrutiny except to those who want to believe it.

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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

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lurker wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:51 pm
some people will try to frame the argument as "guns are like slavery, and defending the 2nd is like defending slavery" but that's a false equivalence that doesn't stand up to even the most cursory scrutiny except to those who want to believe it.
The firearm prohibitionist Democratic/media bloc has pushed similar arguments in the past, and those arguments have been discussed on this site.

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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

Post by VodoundaVinci »

Slavery was never a Right outlined in, and protected by, the Constitution. Equating protecting an amendment of the Constitution with protecting slavery is obtuse. Rediculous.

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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

Post by Tedzilla »

In three weeks we now have 43 Second Amendment Sanctuary counties, towns, and cities. Dec 21st edit: 112 sanctuaries
A Second Amendment Sanctuary is any locality that says it will not enforce any unconstitutional (federal or state) gun laws! Many sheriffs are going to take the County's lead on this and county police could be told not to enforce such laws either. (Law enforcement officers do not have to, and shouldn't, enforce any unconstitutional laws.)"-VCDL
Last edited by Tedzilla on Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT'S BEHIND IT

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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

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Of course, all of this defiance ultimately will amount to nothing. And the party in power will use it as a rallying cry to get sheriffs not sympathetic to the cause of firearm prohibition replaced.
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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

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Considering the GOP sees gun issues as votes (for their own power and profit), it is just a way to try and retake the government. They really don't care unless it works for them. Remember that they used a lot of racism for votes, too, but it didn't work this time.
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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

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Here is Democratic Norfolk Delegate Jay Jones on the pre-filed bills:
https://youtu.be/hZ_MsC_RIAs?t=87
"No one is talking about taking anyone's guns, and no one's talking about infringing upon the Second Amendment."

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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

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Northam-backed assault weapon bill will include ‘grandfather clause’ for existing guns
But they will have to be registered with the authorities.
“In this case, the governor’s assault weapons ban will include a grandfather clause for individuals who already own assault weapons, with the requirement they register their weapons before the end of a designated grace period,” Northam spokeswoman Alena Yarmosky said in a statement Monday evening. “Additional details on this and all other bills will be announced prior to the start of the upcoming session.”
The new Democratic majorities are expected to pass a variety of gun restrictions, including universal background checks, red flag laws that would allow authorities to take guns from people deemed dangerous and reinstatement of a one-handgun-a-month law. Polls have found broad support for those measures, and Democratic lawmakers made them a centerpiece of their 2019 election campaigns as they ousted GOP majorities that have spent years blocking efforts to tighten the state’s gun laws.

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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

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Democratic Virginia State Senator Dave Marsden on what's going to have to happen to privately-owned firearms.

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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

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Open Source Defense on the Democrats' pre-filed semi-automatic carbine ban bill, SB16:
The Racist Mathematics of the Virginia Gun Control Bill
This map comes from the racial dot map, a fabulous interactive mapping tool managed by the Cooper Center at, ironically enough, the University of Virginia. Blue dots are white people, green dots are black people, and so on.

Where are the green dots on this map?

The green dots are in the places where the ban will be enforced. The green dots are in the metro areas where the local law enforcement agencies are more likely to have MRAP tanks. The green dots are where no-knock raids happen and people get shot. The green dots are where Black Lives Matter.

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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

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DispositionMatrix wrote:
Fri Dec 20, 2019 10:57 am
Open Source Defense on the Democrats' pre-filed semi-automatic carbine ban bill, SB16:
The Racist Mathematics of the Virginia Gun Control Bill
This map comes from the racial dot map, a fabulous interactive mapping tool managed by the Cooper Center at, ironically enough, the University of Virginia. Blue dots are white people, green dots are black people, and so on.

Where are the green dots on this map?

The green dots are in the places where the ban will be enforced. The green dots are in the metro areas where the local law enforcement agencies are more likely to have MRAP tanks. The green dots are where no-knock raids happen and people get shot. The green dots are where Black Lives Matter.
I don't think "only" proposed Virginia gun control is when laws are enforced against some people more than others.
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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

Post by blackcarbine »

Was expecting this one and here it is - HB 142 which closes the online course loophole for a ccw permit in VA (which allows concealed carry in 27 other states via reciprocity with an out of state permit application).

But at least there's HB132 - legalizing the use of swear words in public - fuck yeah!

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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

Post by highdesert »

Virginia Citizens Defense League which has been pushing the VA 2A Sanctuary movement are planning a Lobby Day Rally on 1/20/2020.
https://www.vcdl.org

VA jumped into action while CA snoozed years ago and slowly we lost 2A rights. Go Virginia!
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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

Post by frankr »

Word is they are planning to pass laws immediately to try and squish lobby day. Just rumors, but I definitely think they are accurate. They should stop trying to pass unconstitutional laws.

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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

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highdesert wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:40 pm
Virginia Citizens Defense League which has been pushing the VA 2A Sanctuary movement are planning a Lobby Day Rally on 1/20/2020.
https://www.vcdl.org

VA jumped into action while CA snoozed years ago and slowly we lost 2A rights. Go Virginia!
Careful who you ally yourself with. I knew I recognized that guy. Cleave criticizes the NRA for not being far right enough on guns. He and his group will make sure that anti-2A voters show up en masse in 2020:

‘Make bang bang’: Virginia gun-rights lobbyist duped into promoting pistols for tots
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/vi ... story.html
Philip Van Cleave, president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, was among numerous public figures pranked by Sacha Baron Cohen on his new series “Who Is America?” The creator of Borat and Ali G, characters who conduct outrageous interviews with unsuspecting politicians, burned up social media on Sunday with footage of current and former members of Congress speaking enthusiastically of arming children.

But no one went further than Van Cleave, who appeared with Cohen — who was disguised as an Israeli security expert named Col. Erran Morad — in a Nickelodeon-style segment called “Kinderguardians.”

Holding a “Puppy Pistol” toy, which looks like a pistol inserted into a stuffed dog, Van Cleave explains how to load an ammunition clip: “To feed him, take his lunch box and push it into his tummy like this. Just remember to point Puppy Pistol’s mouth right at the middle of the bad man. If he has a big fat tummy, point at that.”

That’s one of several “Gunimals” toys that Van Cleave and the stone-faced Cohen tout for youngsters, along with “Gunny Rabbit” — “He’s ready to put the naughty man on a very long timeout,” Van Cleave says — and ­“Dino-gun,” which, Van Cleave warns, “eats and spits his candy really, really fast.”

Van Cleave holds a pink teddy bear called BFF — for Best Firearm Forever — which contains a handgun with a string attached to the trigger. “Pull the string on a bad guy,” Van Cleave says. “Make bang bang.”

Van Cleave wrongly says Martin Luther King Jr. was a Republican
https://www.politifact.com/virginia/sta ... -jr-was-r/
Philip Van Cleave, president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, which organized the rally, disparaged the Democratic Party as the party of gun control. He then uttered what he said was a little-known fact:

"We’re here on a holiday, and this holiday is Martin Luther King’s birthday, right? Somebody who fought for civil rights to bring people to be equal," Van Cleave said. "Let me ask you a question. What party was he with? He was a Republican."
The border between civilization and savagery is porous and patrolled by opportunists. Resist fascism. Vote like your democracy depends on it.

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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

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frankr wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:54 pm
Word is they are planning to pass laws immediately to try and squish lobby day. Just rumors, but I definitely think they are accurate. They should stop trying to pass unconstitutional laws.
Seriously. Stop passing off rumors like that. Jade Helm. UN black helicopters. Flat Earth. All "just rumors" but...
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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

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K9s wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:00 pm
highdesert wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 3:40 pm
Virginia Citizens Defense League which has been pushing the VA 2A Sanctuary movement are planning a Lobby Day Rally on 1/20/2020.
https://www.vcdl.org

VA jumped into action while CA snoozed years ago and slowly we lost 2A rights. Go Virginia!
Careful who you ally yourself with. I knew I recognized that guy. Cleave criticizes the NRA for not being far right enough on guns. He and his group will make sure that anti-2A voters show up en masse in 2020:

‘Make bang bang’: Virginia gun-rights lobbyist duped into promoting pistols for tots
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/vi ... story.html
Philip Van Cleave, president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, was among numerous public figures pranked by Sacha Baron Cohen on his new series “Who Is America?” The creator of Borat and Ali G, characters who conduct outrageous interviews with unsuspecting politicians, burned up social media on Sunday with footage of current and former members of Congress speaking enthusiastically of arming children.

But no one went further than Van Cleave, who appeared with Cohen — who was disguised as an Israeli security expert named Col. Erran Morad — in a Nickelodeon-style segment called “Kinderguardians.”

Holding a “Puppy Pistol” toy, which looks like a pistol inserted into a stuffed dog, Van Cleave explains how to load an ammunition clip: “To feed him, take his lunch box and push it into his tummy like this. Just remember to point Puppy Pistol’s mouth right at the middle of the bad man. If he has a big fat tummy, point at that.”

That’s one of several “Gunimals” toys that Van Cleave and the stone-faced Cohen tout for youngsters, along with “Gunny Rabbit” — “He’s ready to put the naughty man on a very long timeout,” Van Cleave says — and ­“Dino-gun,” which, Van Cleave warns, “eats and spits his candy really, really fast.”

Van Cleave holds a pink teddy bear called BFF — for Best Firearm Forever — which contains a handgun with a string attached to the trigger. “Pull the string on a bad guy,” Van Cleave says. “Make bang bang.”

Van Cleave wrongly says Martin Luther King Jr. was a Republican
https://www.politifact.com/virginia/sta ... -jr-was-r/
Philip Van Cleave, president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, which organized the rally, disparaged the Democratic Party as the party of gun control. He then uttered what he said was a little-known fact:

"We’re here on a holiday, and this holiday is Martin Luther King’s birthday, right? Somebody who fought for civil rights to bring people to be equal," Van Cleave said. "Let me ask you a question. What party was he with? He was a Republican."
Not surprised probably a very small organization but since Dems won control of the legislature they've been thrust into the spotlight. The NRA was involved in the founding of VCDL but aren't in the forefront on this one. And the 2A sanctuary resolutions passed by counties and independent cities appear to vary, some just support the Constitution and not exclusively the Second Amendment.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

Post by frankr »

It's a million different organizations currently. VCDL is small though has always been active. Their policy has always been simply they support gun rights, oppose gun restrictions, that's it. Just some guys doing the work. Everything is different at the moment, everything is so much bigger than it was a number of weeks ago.

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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

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This isn't a "small" operation. It is being broadcast and supported by Breitbart, Tea Party organizations, and other right-wing media outlets.

Be careful of the ulterior motives and tactics of your allies. When they try to fracture a state and form militias, that might be a sign that they are divisive. They are not trying to persuade the majority in Virginia. Don't threaten the voters if you don't like the result.
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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

Post by frankr »

It is not my opinion that violating the constitution and disarming the population is ok if some people vote for it.

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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

Post by Tedzilla »

K9s wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 4:56 pm
This isn't a "small" operation. It is being broadcast and supported by Breitbart, Tea Party organizations, and other right-wing media outlets.

Be careful of the ulterior motives and tactics of your allies. When they try to fracture a state and form militias, that might be a sign that they are divisive. They are not trying to persuade the majority in Virginia. Don't threaten the voters if you don't like the result.
A lot boogey men and misattributions...
Van Cleave politely told the militias offering 'protection' thanks , but no thanks and to please leave the long guns home. VCDL has done Lobby Day for years, this is not something new and ominous.
The VCDL sends out the same questionnaire to all the candidates and endorses based on the scores. VCDL has been roundly criticized for endorsing Democrats and stood it's ground... that got my attention.
As for the possibility Van Cleave may have said the Democrats are the party of gun control, I'll have hear it from his lips... I don't know where he could have gotten that scurrilous idea!
I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT'S BEHIND IT

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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

Post by frankr »

Tedzilla wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 6:48 pm
. I don't know where he could have gotten that scurrilous idea!
Yeah, republicans have been 2nd amendment friendly for 20 years, democrats have announced their plans to disarm the population through force, before they have even been given the keys. Incidentally, I know somebody who has reached out to the democrat party in public, these constitutional rights belong to all of us. They told him to fuck off. I don't get it.
Democrats, republicans, libertarians, green party, everybody should be demanding the government stop immediately. There are lots of ways this country can be improved for all of us and make our lives better and happier. Disarming us will do the opposite. God help us.

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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

Post by lurker »

probably a good idea to turn down the rhetoric.

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Re: Impact of loss for firearm ownership in Virginia

Post by frankr »

Understood. Point taken.

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