In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

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frankr
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by frankr »

I guess the message democrats in Virginia are trying to get across to all gun owners in the state and the entire country is "Hell yes, we are going to take your guns."

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by K9s »

frankr wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:57 pm
I guess the message democrats in Virginia are trying to get across to all gun owners in the state and the entire country is "Hell yes, we are going to take your guns."
It is hard to say. There will always be Dems and GOP who submit ridiculous bills so that they can tout the bill to their safe district voters. You cannot paint them all with a broad brush until they actually do something.

For example, several states have banned abortion, so we can say with certainty that the GOP in our states are not just trying to reduce abortions or make them safer.

When they do pass some laws, you will know. For now, it is all just Fox News hype.
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by frankr »

Republicans haven't convinced you they are serious about attacking abortion rights? Really?

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by lurker »

i think we're all on the same page here.
"we can say with certainty that the GOP..."

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by K9s »

frankr wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:19 am
Republicans haven't convinced you they are serious about attacking abortion rights? Really?
The GOP used gun rights to raise money and win elections. They did nothing for gun owners except ban bumpfire stocks.

The GOP used abortion rights to raise money and win elections. Several red states did ban abortions this year... after all these decades.
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by frankr »

K9s wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:40 pm
frankr wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:19 am
Republicans haven't convinced you they are serious about attacking abortion rights? Really?
The GOP used gun rights to raise money and win elections. They did nothing for gun owners except ban bumpfire stocks.

The GOP used abortion rights to raise money and win elections. Several red states did ban abortions this year... after all these decades.
I support abortion rights. I support marriage for anybody who is an adult. I think in the most powerful nation in the world people should be not terrified about health care. I think in the most powerful nation in the world we need to make sure we don't wreck the home of us and the home of animals. In the most powerful nation in the world we should have clean water instead of paying for water a corporation has made clean and put into a bottle.

And under republican rule we have just about the most 2nd amendment friendly laws in the entire country as we do at the moment. The democrat politicians have told us directly they will infringe on the 2nd amendment as much as they can get away with, as fast as they can. I'm not exaggerating.
The difference is scary.

I just heard the Virginia Beach BOS meeting was attended by 2,500 people. The BOS said they will need a stadium next time.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by lurker »

we are here in LGC because we advocate for ALL of the rights spelled out in the constitution, and not just a subset. for everyone, not just people who look, or are shaped, or think like us. these wedge issues exist so that authoritarians can solicit money which they then spend on themselves.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by K9s »

frankr wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:21 pm
K9s wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:40 pm
frankr wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:19 am
Republicans haven't convinced you they are serious about attacking abortion rights? Really?
The GOP used gun rights to raise money and win elections. They did nothing for gun owners except ban bumpfire stocks.

The GOP used abortion rights to raise money and win elections. Several red states did ban abortions this year... after all these decades.
I support abortion rights. I support marriage for anybody who is an adult. I think in the most powerful nation in the world people should be not terrified about health care. I think in the most powerful nation in the world we need to make sure we don't wreck the home of us and the home of animals. In the most powerful nation in the world we should have clean water instead of paying for water a corporation has made clean and put into a bottle.

And under republican rule we have just about the most 2nd amendment friendly laws in the entire country as we do at the moment. The democrat politicians have told us directly they will infringe on the 2nd amendment as much as they can get away with, as fast as they can. I'm not exaggerating.
The difference is scary.

I just heard the Virginia Beach BOS meeting was attended by 2,500 people. The BOS said they will need a stadium next time.
We have very pro-2A rights in this red state, too. However, some people have really grown uncomfortable with open-carrying yahoos in stores and armed right-wing militias showing up at every possible public protest. When they feel threatened, they vote. I can't blame them for listening to the anti-2A calls to action.

If it was only 2A rights, then the choice would be easier. It's not. We can only take comfort in the idea that a total ban/confiscation would never pass by SCOTUS and Dems only have to take steps toward gun control to be slapped down by courts and voters. We shall learn soon enough, I guess, what SCOTUS really thinks.
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by inomaha »

At least these counties are protecting a constitutional right in their "sanctuary". It's odd that the liberals are arguing for state and federal supremacy when infringing on the constitution but if it was geared towards sanctuary for illegals they'd be up in arms. Pun intended.
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by K9s »

inomaha wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:40 pm
At least these counties are protecting a constitutional right in their "sanctuary". It's odd that the liberals are arguing for state and federal supremacy when infringing on the constitution but if it was geared towards sanctuary for illegals they'd be up in arms. Pun intended.
"States Rights" as a banner seemed to be used to oppress people. The Feds often tried to reverse oppression.

Of course, my argument isn't about Fed/State/Local control, though. Just pointing out that the 2A isn't the only right under threat.
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by frankr »

K9s wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:48 pm
inomaha wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:40 pm
At least these counties are protecting a constitutional right in their "sanctuary". It's odd that the liberals are arguing for state and federal supremacy when infringing on the constitution but if it was geared towards sanctuary for illegals they'd be up in arms. Pun intended.
"States Rights" as a banner seemed to be used to oppress people. The Feds often tried to reverse oppression.

Of course, my argument isn't about Fed/State/Local control, though. Just pointing out that the 2A isn't the only right under threat.
I decided a while back I can only really work hard for one issue at a time. It looks like our media and government got together a while back and ganged up against the rest of us to eradicate the first amendment.
I was shocked a while back to see the media reporting on the how well the candidates were doing. 1st, 2nd, and 4th place. That actually happened. I watched it. That's our media protecting our 1st amendment. At least I know if I go to express my political opinion to george bush I will be given a "free speech" area away from where the president can see me. That's american nobility. The 1st amendment is no longer in effect. That's 1 down.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by K9s »

frankr wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 9:13 pm
K9s wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:48 pm
inomaha wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:40 pm
At least these counties are protecting a constitutional right in their "sanctuary". It's odd that the liberals are arguing for state and federal supremacy when infringing on the constitution but if it was geared towards sanctuary for illegals they'd be up in arms. Pun intended.
"States Rights" as a banner seemed to be used to oppress people. The Feds often tried to reverse oppression.

Of course, my argument isn't about Fed/State/Local control, though. Just pointing out that the 2A isn't the only right under threat.
I decided a while back I can only really work hard for one issue at a time. It looks like our media and government got together a while back and ganged up against the rest of us to eradicate the first amendment.
I was shocked a while back to see the media reporting on the how well the candidates were doing. 1st, 2nd, and 4th place. That actually happened. I watched it. That's our media protecting our 1st amendment. At least I know if I go to express my political opinion to george bush I will be given a "free speech" area away from where the president can see me. That's american nobility. The 1st amendment is no longer in effect. That's 1 down.
Yeah, I remember seeing a protester jailed because she laughed at AG Jeff Sessions. I don't think the media had a hand in that.
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

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Richmond Times Dispatch columnist equates 2A sanctuary movement to actions of 1800s slavery defenders.
Latest column: The strategy recalls a specious, 19th-century notion advanced by defenders of slavery that states could veto objectionable federal law by standing between their citizens and the national government.

https://t.co/tucjN4N0aG via @rtdnews
https://twitter.com/RTDSchapiro/status/ ... 87169?s=19
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by lurker »

DispositionMatrix wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:11 am
Richmond Times Dispatch columnist equates 2A sanctuary movement to actions of 1800s slavery defenders.
Latest column: The strategy recalls a specious, 19th-century notion advanced by defenders of slavery that states could veto objectionable federal law by standing between their citizens and the national government.

https://t.co/tucjN4N0aG via @rtdnews
https://twitter.com/RTDSchapiro/status/ ... 87169?s=19
well why not, we've seen the same argument here. but one is a specifically enumerated constitutional right, while the other is presumptive based on omission.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by featureless »

DispositionMatrix wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:11 am
Richmond Times Dispatch columnist equates 2A sanctuary movement to actions of 1800s slavery defenders.
Latest column: The strategy recalls a specious, 19th-century notion advanced by defenders of slavery that states could veto objectionable federal law by standing between their citizens and the national government.

https://t.co/tucjN4N0aG via @rtdnews
https://twitter.com/RTDSchapiro/status/ ... 87169?s=19
We do the same for immigration. Maybe it's time to look at the Constitution again and examine where we all (non Natives) came from. Maybe sanctuary status for armed immigrants?

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by frankr »

DispositionMatrix wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:11 am
Richmond Times Dispatch columnist equates 2A sanctuary movement to actions of 1800s slavery defenders.
Latest column: The strategy recalls a specious, 19th-century notion advanced by defenders of slavery that states could veto objectionable federal law by standing between their citizens and the national government.

https://t.co/tucjN4N0aG via @rtdnews
https://twitter.com/RTDSchapiro/status/ ... 87169?s=19
Absolutely anticipated.
The 2nd Amendment is a right that protects black people, white people, gay people, Americans. And if people really insist on calling me something other than american, and putting me into an excluded tribe based on where my immigrant ancestors came from, then I'm Irish coal miner. ALL Americans should be fighting tooth and nail to not allow others to take constitutional rights from them. First amendment rights, second amendment rights all of them. My friend with the black panthers in DC agrees, though I haven't talked to her in a while. I should probably shoot her an email or something. Last I heard she was into a highly involved red tape disagreement with the DC government over roof top gardens.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by K9s »

featureless wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 12:49 pm
Maybe sanctuary status for armed immigrants?
Excellent idea. It would freak out both the anti-gunners and the racists. Perfect.
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

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frankr wrote:
Thu Dec 05, 2019 1:19 pm
I should probably shoot her an email or something.
yes you should.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by VodoundaVinci »

https://sawpatriots.org/attorney-genera ... -followed/
Attorney General: New Gun Laws will be enforced and followed.
It’s been confirmed. The Virginia state government is gearing up to enforce the up and coming gun laws once they are passed.

Virginia Attorney General Mark Herring said on Thursday that the people residing in Sanctuary Counties will follow the law and that the laws “are going to be enforced”. He made this statement on December 5th, one day after Augusta County declared sanctuary status.

“These resolutions have no legal effect whatsoever. It’s really the gun lobby trying to scare a lot of people,”

“When the General Assembly passes it in the upcoming session, those laws are going to be enforced and they will be followed.”

The Attorney General has also essentially called every Sheriff in Virginia a Coward.

“When you talk to those who are in law enforcement and really push them a little bit, like a sheriff or a prosecutor and say, ‘So, really? You mean you’re going to allow violent felons to go ahead and purchase firearms?’ No. They back down pretty quickly.”
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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by featureless »

Man, that's a lot of hubris.

I just love that the new boogieman is the "gun lobby." I guess it's better than the gun owner.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by DispositionMatrix »

featureless wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:22 pm
Man, that's a lot of hubris.

I just love that the new boogieman is the "gun lobby." I guess it's better than the gun owner.
The "gun lobby trying to scare a lot of people" doesn't even make sense in this context. The AG probably wanted to avoid verbally pitting himself against any sector of the people directly--for now.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by featureless »

DispositionMatrix wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:42 pm
featureless wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 1:22 pm
Man, that's a lot of hubris.

I just love that the new boogieman is the "gun lobby." I guess it's better than the gun owner.
The "gun lobby trying to scare a lot of people" doesn't even make sense in this context. The AG probably wanted to avoid verbally pitting himself against any sector of the people directly--for now.
It sure doesn't, unless the propaganda is the "people" surely want gun control so it must be the wicked "gun lobby" going against the wishes of the people to make boards pass those dirty will not comply ordinances.

Wicked gun lobby: "Psst. Hey, councilman. Over here. Want a half mil for reelection? Just pass that sanctuary bill we gave ya."
The people: "Oh, the noes... Save us, Mr. Governor."

Fuck that noise.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

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Fairfax County, 12/5.

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

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VodoundaVinci wrote:
Fri Dec 06, 2019 9:33 am
https://sawpatriots.org/attorney-genera ... -followed/
Attorney General: New Gun Laws will be enforced and followed.
It’s been confirmed. The Virginia state government is gearing up to enforce the up and coming gun laws once they are passed.

Virginia Attorney General Mark Herring said on Thursday that the people residing in Sanctuary Counties will follow the law and that the laws “are going to be enforced”. He made this statement on December 5th, one day after Augusta County declared sanctuary status.

“These resolutions have no legal effect whatsoever. It’s really the gun lobby trying to scare a lot of people,”

“When the General Assembly passes it in the upcoming session, those laws are going to be enforced and they will be followed.”

The Attorney General has also essentially called every Sheriff in Virginia a Coward.

“When you talk to those who are in law enforcement and really push them a little bit, like a sheriff or a prosecutor and say, ‘So, really? You mean you’re going to allow violent felons to go ahead and purchase firearms?’ No. They back down pretty quickly.”
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A. G. Herring knows full well nobody is talking about arming felons...
"A Second Amendment Sanctuary is any locality that says it will not enforce any unconstitutional (federal or state) gun laws! Many sheriffs are going to take the County's lead on this and county police could be told not to enforce such laws either. (Law enforcement officers do not have to, and shouldn't, enforce any unconstitutional laws.)"-VCDL
I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND WHAT'S BEHIND IT

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Re: In Virginia, and elsewhere, gun supporters prepare to defy new laws

Post by frankr »

He's misleading people on purpose. Most of the "sanctuary" places talked about laws written after a certain date. All of the laws already in place would still be in effect. The new laws are contrary to the Constitution and so they don't have to be followed.

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