Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?

1
OK, I am still on the hunt for a SHTF long gun. I sold the Kel Tec because I hated the fit and finish - I would not trust my life to it.

So, say a Katrina-like disaster hits and Trump sends Tweets instead of water bottles, what long gun would you rather have: shotgun, carbine or bolt gun?

Specifically, I am considering (well, more dreaming since my gun fund is on empty):

1) 1892 .357 carbine. Benefits: pairs well with my side arms, ammo weighs little in case of bugout, ammo reloads cheaply and easy to stockpile, pretty good rate of fire, stock removes quickly to stow in a backpack if necessary, low recoil, can be shot at any gun range(unlike the shotgun).

2) Mossberg 500 Flex 18.5" 12 gauge with ghost ring sights. Benefits: versatile (can be used for hunting as well as s/d - ammo widely available), knock-down power, psychological advantage at close range, relatively low purchase price, stock removes for quick backpack storage.

3) Ruger Gunsite Scout in 308 of 450 Bushmaster. Benefits: with wood stock and short mag, looks like a normal hunting rifle, can be used for defense or hunting (we have pigs and deer within walking distance of my house), knockdown power, range, accuracy, 308 offers easily available ammo while 450 offers a cartridge I feel I can handload effectively, can be shot at 2 of my 3 local ranges.

I think the Flex makes the most logical sense, but it is aesthetically unpleasing to me (I don't like tacticool) and will also see little range time, b/c my local range limits shotguns to the rifle range with slugs only.

That said, I am leaning towards the Rossi 92 in 357, which in unobtainium right now (at least in 16" 357 stainless flavor).

However, I just saw the Ruger in a walnut stock and think it looks amazing. I am facinated by the 450 cartridge and would love to reload for it. There are even a couple of loads that use the same powder as 357s, which would be nice.

Anyway, what say you? Pistol chambered carbine, shotgun or scout rifle?
Image


"Person, woman, man, camera, TV."

Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?

3
Shot gun with a slug barrel means you can reach out a fair distance and touch someone so they stay down. Big hole, heavy hit. Personal preference would be for a semiautomatic, as there are not many misfeeds with plastic shells.
Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.
- Ronald Reagan

Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?

9
Depends on if you are primarily concerned with survival/ food or self defense

I have a Savage 24 over under 20 gauge / 22LR with inserts for the 20 gauge for 4710/45LC, 45 acp, 38 spl/357, and 9mm for survival and meat

I prefer the 20 gauge over the 12 because I can carry more ammo / a greater variety.. and I only pack 20 gauge and 22lr fur and feathers with a couple buck shot and a couple slugs for large game.. large game is not commonly encountered compared to small game and edible birds ( well any bird is edible in a pinch, basically so is any mammal) small game comes in convenient sizes that makes preservation of large amounts of left overs unnecessary .. caliber adapters are for scrounged and found ammo.. Tactical shotguns are difficult to use well for wing shooting.. and in a survival situation it's okay to take sitting feathers or flying pigs should the opportunity present it's self

Self defense.. can be covered by a pistol or a dedicated shotgun... large bore rifles are not really necessary if you can stalk within 100 yards and place a shot well.. large noise signature, occasionally large muzzle flash, especially in low light, heavy ammo which, like the 12 gauge, may or may not be a consideration depending on if you are mobile or working from home or pre planned permanent bug out remote deer camp man cave with a large larder and color coordinated cushion covers. I have some small extended range listening gear, very portable and packable http://www.amazing1.com/hearing-aids-pa ... -mics.html , and pocket night vision monocular's to aid in evading what I don't want to meet and find what I do want to meet

Now for the dedicated tactical person that has plans to make a fire fight out of every stranger within 300 yards you need at least an M16/M4 and for some a M134 wouldn't be to much.

But just as important as the weapon, is the ammo.. civilians can use hollow point and soft point in self defense even in large bore rifles .. FMJ is usually banned for hunting because it is less likely to produce a clean humane kill on large game or human sized prey.. how many times do you want to have to shoot the threat or opportunity to be sure the threat is ended or the ribs will stay on the grill when you light the charcoal? Using subsonic or CB caps depending on barrel length can mean near silent Hunting a short ranges, as does 32 acp caliber adapters for 7.62 x 54r and . Brit 303 .. they may exist in 30-06 as well

Match the ammo to what you are likely to have to/ get to shoot .. 450 is a lot to carry for deer in close woods, useless on rabbit and squirrel .. Typical dove here sitting on a wire .. you would have to be at least 30 yards out not to overly tenderize the meat with a 12 gauge and a 20 gauge does just as well and you can get a little closer have to pick out fewer pellets . Learning curve with what calibers and weapons well destroy more meat than they harvest.. you can have too much gun... and again survival .. small game and silence has many advantages

There is no ideal or best weapon for everybody.. only the weapon that fits your situation and intentions, terrain, game availability, determination to defend your ground... survival sometimes means running away and avoiding the fight altogether and taking as much of what you need as you can and leaving the rest.. hopefully carefully cached and concealed so an unwanted guests leave sooner rather than later .

It's how it has always been and always will be .. if you don't get the best weapon for your tactics and/or mission, then you have to alter the mission and/or tactics to fit the weapon(s) you have.

And yes I know some of my suggestions are not conventional

Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?

13
Agree with the above posts. If'n yer gonna stay put and just defend property from looters, 12ga. Period.

But if you're considering general SHTF carbine's not on the list (as Marlene posted) I would also suggest a Ruger...
10/22.

In my mind truly is the ultimate survival rifle. You can take small game with it and not spoil too much of the meat, take big hogs with proper placement as the video above shows. You can carry boat-loads of rounds in your pocket without weighing you down much. And speaking of weight, you can carry the rifle all day and not feel tired. Just for intimidation, you can fire repeatedly and send a hail of lead with zero effort. And if truly aiming with even just iron sights, the damn thing is so easy to hit things with under 100 I don't even take it out to the range anymore: no challenge = no fun.

Originally bought a stainless take-down model for this purpose 'cause it came with a cool bug-bag. But now prefer a straightforward carbine model with folding Butler Creek pistol-grip stock plus Lasermax laser which shoots and points easily with a folded stock. Really, lightest, coolest, most functional SHTF rig ever.

Image
Last edited by Bisbee on Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?

14
senorgrand wrote:I actually considered a 10/22 TD. Too bad they don't make the takedown in 22 mag. And too bad 25 rounders are illegal here.

Yeah, the ruger is out of the running. You guys make some great points. I wish I could mount sights to the barrel of the 500, because a barrel swap puts me on the trap range
https://www.mossberg.com/store/parts/type/barrels.html

barrel swap and you could have sights or even a scope mount https://www.mossberg.com/store/92156.html

Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?

17
Let me start of with a disclaimer--this may not be legal in California.

One of the things I like about 12 gauge shotguns is the variety of ammo available. And since the original question was about a SHTF situation, the flexibility of different 12 ammo would be an asset.

In an immediate life threatening situation, single, double, or triple "0" buck is great. At longer range, slugs will get the job done. However, it is important to remember that in a Katrina-like situation the cops may not be immediately available, they will be available if you shoot someone. It may take a day or two, but you will have all the problems of someone involved in a shooting.

Shotguns also have the capability of non or less lethal ammo. These could include bean bags, 'rubber' buck shot, CS, and others.

Then there are some exotics that could be used to make bad guys/looters rethink their plan. My favorite example is the Dragon Breath shell. These shells have magnesium pellets that ignite when fired. Very impressive. But in dry areas will start a wildfire.

Youtube has lots of examples of all of these rounds.
All religions united with government are more or less inimical to liberty. All, separated from government, are compatible with liberty.-Henry Clay
Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms.—Aristotle

Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?

18
We're in our fifties and our heavily invested in our home, pets and tenants (two RVs in the drive with friends with nowhere else to go.) Hunkering down is our best bet, which means we're here with all of the guns- handguns, shotguns and centerfire rifles. What I grab will depend on the situation.

I live in a suburb attached to a major city. If I could only afford one gun it would be a service caliber handgun. It's can be concealed, it's easy to have available constantly and hunting is not an issue here. If I lived in a more rural setting a shotgun would be the answer; it better fits the circumstances; defense, hunting and concealment isn't an issue. If I lived in the ass-end of nowhere a centerfire rifle might be my choice- longer range of engagement, etc.

Fortunately I am not constrained to a single gun.
"Aim for their foil beanies! It's the only way to be sure..."
https://tinkertalksguns.wordpress.com
https://www.facebook.com/michael.t.pearce.7

Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?

20
Of course, for reason of having to defend your actions in court after any shooting, it is probably why you'd want to stay away from exotic shells in your HD shotgun.

"Yes, your Honor, I shot the intruder with Dragons Breath, so much the better to send the devil back to the fiery gates of hell."
:laugh:
Of course you could also claim that using Dragons Breath was actually a non lethal attempt to temporarily blind and confuse the intruder by setting your house in fire...
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?

21
Pretty sure the "exotic" ammo is all about entertainment, and is why it is priced like courtside seating.. if It was actually effective at something useful it would be "standard" ammo.. Kind of like tracer out of a bolt gun .. don't get me wrong.. tracer out of any gun can be highly instructive about where your ricochets go and how often bullets ricochet... but seriously.. unless you have a stable mount and full auto, their usefulness for directing fire, their designed purpose, is minimal at best. And nothing wrong with shooting just past dusk with a MN M44 just to watch the muzzle blast.. whatever floats your boat.. but self defense.. stick to what has a proven track record of being effective.. that comment also includes trying to stop a threat with less lethal ammo.. less lethal is about stopping resistance or enforcing compliance thru pain.. it is not about stopping a threat to the life of, or prevent serious injury to, self or others..

Re: Shotgun, carbine or rifle for shtf...what do you grab?

22
Bisbee wrote:Of course, for reason of having to defend your actions in court after any shooting, it is probably why you'd want to stay away from exotic shells in your HD shotgun.

"Yes, your Honor, I shot the intruder with Dragons Breath, so much the better to send the devil back to the fiery gates of hell."
:laugh:
Of course you could also claim that using Dragons Breath was actually a non lethal attempt to temporarily blind and confuse the intruder by setting your house in fire...
OK, a little clarification. When I mentioned Dragon's Breath (DB), I was not thinking home defense/home intruder. I was thinking more of deterring ne'er-do-wells from coming onto my property. Think Korean-American storekeepers on the roof of their store with guns, during a major riot.
Also keep in mind that I am aware of the fire danger. Since I live in the lush foothills of Appalachia, where if the humidity drops below 80%, it's considered a 'dry' day. Now in that special place that I am trying to buy as my homestead, there is a driveway about 100 yards long. Suppose I live there when the SHTF. That shack full of meth heads and heroin addicts a half mile up the road are feeling desperate because their supply has dried up. I see their ratty ass pick-up turn in my drive. I can wait till they get up to the house, or I can fire a round of DB along each side of their car as they start up the drive. I think that would encourage them to leave, and never come back. I could have stopped them by shooting their engine block with a Mosin Nagant, but that could kill one of them by ricochet, and besides I want them to have their truck so they can leave.

Bisbee I love your comment about sending the Devil back to hell. But this is the Bible belt, and there are many jurors that would think that's a completely justified, and legal defense. :yikes:
Last edited by Hiker on Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All religions united with government are more or less inimical to liberty. All, separated from government, are compatible with liberty.-Henry Clay
Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms.—Aristotle

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests