Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

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MaxwellG wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:37 am According to his post record, this Troll would wake once every year or so to "Feed", then return to slumber in ignorant bliss.
He had no interest in a serious debate, facts seemed an annoyance and were easily dismissed, he continued to spout the TeaBilly/Trumpster/Birther songs Chapter and verse.
That sounds familiar.

I wonder about the connecting IP address... US proxy server? Legit?
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

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tc556guy wrote: Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:07 am
YankeeTarheel wrote: Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:09 am
While we are open to all kinds of opinions, and being so is required for membership, I'm still surprised that anyone joining the Liberal Gun Club would think Donald Trump as President was anything but catastrophic for the USA and the world. He is simply THE most dangerous President in our history, both to our nation and its laws, and to the world at large in every conceivable way.
I consider Obama or Hillary to be far more dangerous to the nation than Trump.
Then you, sir, have not been paying attention.

Please do so forthwith!
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo.
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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

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SailDesign wrote: Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:53 pm
tc556guy wrote: Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:07 am
YankeeTarheel wrote: Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:09 am
While we are open to all kinds of opinions, and being so is required for membership, I'm still surprised that anyone joining the Liberal Gun Club would think Donald Trump as President was anything but catastrophic for the USA and the world. He is simply THE most dangerous President in our history, both to our nation and its laws, and to the world at large in every conceivable way.
I consider Obama or Hillary to be far more dangerous to the nation than Trump.
Then you, sir, have not been paying attention.

Please do so forthwith!
He's been banned.....
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

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To talk seriously, I think the worst thing that could happen would be an economical crash. There's no need to fear nuclear war (either it will be much more limited than you'd expect, or you'd be volatilised in a matter of seconds, in both cases it's better than what's shown in movies), no need to fear huge epidemics (not happening with modern medicine in a developed country, unless we have to pay for it upfront of course), but fear the economical crash.

It's what made my family emigrate in the early 90s (we were lucky to have some savings in gold, or we'd have been forced to stay and endure it) and, more relevant for the USA due to ethnic differenced, what provoked the bloody end of Yugoslavia. In both cases, it means no wages, no edible food in shops, no rule of law, no health system unless you bring imported medicine to a doctor you know, and in the case of Yugoslavia, you add a topping of ethnic warfare on top of that ; which isn't too much of an unrealistic scenario, given the fun events at Charlottesville recently. Even the lightest, softest version you could face is what happened to Greece in 2008, with no jobs, mass emigration, political violence in the streets and HIV and drugs epidemics. And it has happened a lot of times in recent history. All of those countries got better now, yes, even Greece is back on track and is hoping to thrive again soon, but they still suffered for a couple years.

Ideally, you'd get yourself something like this five years before the storm, grow fruits, vegetables and have chickens and goats for meat and dairy, stock up on guns and ammo and buy solar panels for your house, but I somehow think that not everyone can do it.
Then, according to survivors of the Sarajevo siege, the best way to survive would be to form "alliances" between families living next to each other, putting together 20-30 people including 2 thirds of working age adults, have guns and ammo (not the badass tactical kind, it'll get you killed because some local warlord wants a cool looking carry piece), have medicine (lots of it), and learn how to go to the toilet with a shovel and a patch of grass behind the house. Such an event has sadly no easy or cool way out, unless you can buy the aforementioned island or at least go abroad and buy a house there.

Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

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Yes Sir, Thank You. The best bet right now for what's coming is to run away. Take what you have, money, etc and run away.

Where America is now going has been done many times. I have friends in Bosnia, The UK, Spain, and all over Europe and the more I see what is happening in the US the more I am consolidating my wealth and looking to get out. The US economy from mid Middle Class to Poverty will be liquidated to provide billions for Billionaires and all that resist will be physically liquidated after they are financially liquidated. I'm just trying to eat and live. America is pretty much done now.

Run if you have the resources. If yer rich enough to be in the top 1% then you are safe. I need a place where I can grow a garden and have a few chickens or enough in the bank to buy protein and bullets. Preferably somewhere temperate where I can live in a tent.

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

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VodoundaVinci wrote:Yes Sir, Thank You. The best bet right now for what's coming is to run away. Take what you have, money, etc and run away.

Where America is now going has been done many times. I have friends in Bosnia, The UK, Spain, and all over Europe and the more I see what is happening in the US the more I am consolidating my wealth and looking to get out. The US economy from mid Middle Class to Poverty will be liquidated to provide billions for Billionaires and all that resist will be physically liquidated after they are financially liquidated. I'm just trying to eat and live. America is pretty much done now.

Run if you have the resources. If yer rich enough to be in the top 1% then you are safe. I need a place where I can grow a garden and have a few chickens or enough in the bank to buy protein and bullets. Preferably somewhere temperate where I can live in a tent.

VooDoo
This makes my blood boil. I. Can’t. Even.

Then go. GTFO of here. We don’t need cowards like you who cut and run when the going gets tough. Go be a selfish prick somewhere else while the rest of us fight for equality, representation, and acceptance and stand up to bigotry and hatred.

And don’t come back when things are better. You won’t have earned a place here.



Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

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I don't think it will get like that any time soon, VooDoo.

Sarajevo? Maybe. In some cities.

More likely a financial collapse that wipes out/liquidates the already pitiful resources of the poor, but they would still need us around (cops, nurses, soldiers, and other laborers/workers are not rich). Automation won't solve all their problems.

However, I don't see why any of that would be needed. Income inequality is staggering and most people are just working to eat and live. The rest are incarcerated (and someone makes money off that) or elderly/sick (and someone also makes money off that). There isn't a lot left for the robber barons to take. They are the ones who will leave and take their riches while we toil. :)
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

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lurker wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 11:01 pm
VodoundaVinci wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 7:45 pm If yer rich enough to be in the top 1% then you are safe.
fear not.
there will be plenty of employment opportunities.
as servants and security guards for the 1%.
And someone will have to grow the food they eat, and provide and purify the ass's milk they bathe in. And take out their trash. And all the other little things they will "need" to survive.

Yes - America will keep going as it is just as long as the 1% wish to live here.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo.
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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

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Maccabee wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:36 pm
VodoundaVinci wrote:Yes Sir, Thank You. The best bet right now for what's coming is to run away. Take what you have, money, etc and run away.

Where America is now going has been done many times. I have friends in Bosnia, The UK, Spain, and all over Europe and the more I see what is happening in the US the more I am consolidating my wealth and looking to get out. The US economy from mid Middle Class to Poverty will be liquidated to provide billions for Billionaires and all that resist will be physically liquidated after they are financially liquidated. I'm just trying to eat and live. America is pretty much done now.

Run if you have the resources. If yer rich enough to be in the top 1% then you are safe. I need a place where I can grow a garden and have a few chickens or enough in the bank to buy protein and bullets. Preferably somewhere temperate where I can live in a tent.

VooDoo
This makes my blood boil. I. Can’t. Even.

Then go. GTFO of here. We don’t need cowards like you who cut and run when the going gets tough. Go be a selfish prick somewhere else while the rest of us fight for equality, representation, and acceptance and stand up to bigotry and hatred.

And don’t come back when things are better. You won’t have earned a place here.
Earned a place here? I have dragged my ass out of bed at O Dark Thirty for over 40 years and I'm tired of working for The Lords and Ladies. You think it's so great here? You fight for it...I'm gonna spend my retirement and savings somewhere where it will benefit common working people. Somewhere where healthcare is a right and "on tap" for everyone not just those who have the money.

Trust me...If I manage to escape and get out I won't be back. Coward indeed...ever live in a car Buck Wheat? Ever own and operate a business and put dozens of people's kids thru college and help them buy houses with decent honest wages? I have. I don't owe you or anyone else in this country shit. Literally, everything I have I busted my nuts for. I actually worked my way up to the low level I am now. No inheritance, no 6 figure a year job answering emails and making investments. Sometimes 3 jobs at a time. I'm Americas Middle class being shoved into the shitter so that Billionaires can liquidate me and other and shove another billion they will never spend nor pay taxes on into a politicians pocket or an off shore account that they pay no tax on.

And I'm coward 'cause I'm tired of Billionaires deciding if I get healthcare or not? Classic American Bully. Anyone who doesn't suck it is a coward and hasn't earned a place. Typical fat asshole American with a big mouth. You love it? You suck it. I'm out.

VooDoo
Last edited by VodoundaVinci on Sun Jul 29, 2018 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

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I think Stalin was right about a lot of stuff. He was also a mass murderer.

What do you think he was right about?

Here's my favorite Stalin quote: The only real power comes out of a long rifle.

YMMV.

This one gets me: It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

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I definitely like that last quote.

Sadly, I think Stalin was right about more things than I’d hope. I’d like for the world to work in a way where a deal struck to prevent a bloody revolution and the kind of disaster that Stalin wrought could stand. We made such a (new) deal in the US in the 1930s and sadly the capitalist system encourages and rewards people who would seek-to (and now have successfully) break such a deal. I am afraid (literally) that Stalin was right that there is no half-measure and no deal to be struck. I’m afraid that there’s no way to do it other than accepting massive loss of life through starvation to enrich a few or accepting massive loss of life through a violent forced restructuring of society.

When I hear the useless soft-headed bullshit that came from our visiting friend, I lament that Stalin was probably right.

When discussing my views on socialism, I’ve been tarred with “BUT STALIN!!!!!!!!” enough times that now I just say it as preemptive counterpoint: Stalin was right.
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like button....where's the Like Button? :laugh:

I think America has passed the point where we are gonna vote our way out of this mess. I pray that I'm wrong but I'm not. America will have a violent revolution to resolve this. Hopefully not in my Lifetime but Americas present owners and operators are not gonna be dispelled by a stupid ass "Vote"...we are gonna have to Take. It. Back.

By force.

And I'm too fucking old for that so I'm gonna flee...sell my house and my guns and take my winnings and flee to a place where where my meager savings can but me food and a warm place to sleep. If we wanna march the Oligarchs up the scaffold and liquidate them I'll stay for that. I'm yer Man fer that.

But if we all just wanna suck it and vote for the "Other Guy" who is owned and operated by the same fat fucking rich assholes that run Trump (that'd be the Democrats) then yer on yer own. I'm done with it - I have no Party left. No representation, no peer group, no Hope here. This is gonna "not end well". I got Republicans who are Fascists or Democrats who wanna disarm me and feed me to the Fascists unarmed and naked.

Time to flee.

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

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K9s wrote: Sat Jul 28, 2018 9:32 pm I don't think it will get like that any time soon, VooDoo.

Sarajevo? Maybe. In some cities.

More likely a financial collapse that wipes out/liquidates the already pitiful resources of the poor, but they would still need us around (cops, nurses, soldiers, and other laborers/workers are not rich). Automation won't solve all their problems.

However, I don't see why any of that would be needed. Income inequality is staggering and most people are just working to eat and live. The rest are incarcerated (and someone makes money off that) or elderly/sick (and someone also makes money off that). There isn't a lot left for the robber barons to take. They are the ones who will leave and take their riches while we toil. :)
Resources of the poor? The poor don't have any resources - they've already been cleaned out. What's left of the middle class is bleeding out right now. Now that we have trade wars, that's beginning to accelerate while it metastasizes to small business owners. I'm a vet. My retirement and VA disability is indexed to 90% of inflation. I've been losing ground since retiring in 2004. I lost a small business in the 2008 meltdown and I'm still paying that off. My Post 9/11 GI Bill is worthless now because the cost of university is inflating so quickly that the money that was 'guaranteed' to pay for full time tuition plus provide a few hundred a month for housing support will almost cover a semester. A number of my military friends settled in Europe when they retired - I think history's proving them to be smarter than those of us that came back home.

The crash won't take the entire country down all at once - it's a descent, not a sheer cliff. VooDoo's spot on - it's a 'bottom-up' problem. Folks on the bottom are already feeling Sarajevo while those that are just starting to feel a pinch are still in denial. How's our suicide rate, again?

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The all knowing wiki.
suicide_rate.jpg
While there is no single factor that leads to suicide, Dr Stone says relationship issues and financial troubles tend to be top factors contributing to suicide across the country.

She also notes that some western states have some of the highest rates of suicide historically, which could be related to the fact that they tend to be more rural.

Rural states, she explained, are still recovering from economic downturns. People also tend to be more isolated, without access to proper care. And, these states have been hit hard by the opioid epidemic.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44416727
Last edited by AndyH on Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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I think the difference between some who have posted here and the Maccabee's of the world is the recognition that for certain peoples there is simply no refuge to be taken from running; that there is only staying and fighting to protect what you love and if necessary die on your feet trying. History has shown that running and hiding is a fools errand when you are Jewish. And here is something to be learned for all men of conscience.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

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Marlene said:

I’m not going anywhere but I’m not living some stand and fight nationalist fantasy either. Nothing wrong with deciding not to stay in a hideous mess of a country that deserves to die.
+1 :clap:

Corn has roughly 32,000 Genes - Humans roughly 20,000.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/scienc ... umans.html

BTW, I first read this in a far more authoritative paper during the initial genome project. It is an established fact.

Now why does a plant, that appears so much less complex than a human, have so much DNA?

Corn has no feet. Whatever happens to it, it must 'stand and fight', requiring exotic proteins to ward off bugs, resist drought, flooding, mold, excess sunlight, insufficient sunlight, and a thousand more bad things. Humans, on the other hand, have handily replaced 12,000 extra genes by having feet. We can, and do, run away.
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Re: What's the worst you really think would happen?

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Bisbee wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:43 am I think the difference between some who have posted here and the Maccabee's of the world is the recognition that for certain peoples there is simply no refuge to be taken from running; that there is only staying and fighting to protect what you love and if necessary die on your feet trying. History has shown that running and hiding is a fools errand when you are Jewish. And here is something to be learned for all men of conscience.
I appreciate the sentiment, but, in fact, it's a fallacy. Look at the USA: Other than the people that were here already for 10,000 to 16,000 years, EVERYONE else mostly came here fleeing something, or were kidnapped and dragged here to be slaves. Immigrants have been fleeing persecution, poverty, injustice, etc and coming here since the 1600's. The great mass immigration of 1880 to 1920 were people fleeing tyranny and starvation in Europe. The people seeking asylum today, at our southern border, who are having their children ripped away, are fleeing horrendous conditions in Central America.

Essentially, your assertion is denying the validity of being a refugee. Plus, sometimes, the best alternative is to flee, retreat, and try to re-group. Had George Washington adopted that strategy, he would have lost the war. Instead, he recognized that NO position was worth losing his army for, and even when it meant ceding New York and Brooklyn to the British, cutting off New England from the rest of the colonies, he did so because the alternative would be the catastrophic loss of his army.

Those who fled the Nazis survived. Those who didn't, didn't. I, too, am Jewish and understand that ULTIMATELY, no place is safe. My grandfathers fled terrible conditions in Tsarist Russia and Imperial Austria-Hungary.
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

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