Happy I found you :-)

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Cauthon
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Happy I found you :-)

#1 Post by Cauthon » Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:19 pm

We need a Grand Unified Theory. I like to talk to my local LPR / Liberal Public Radio people and tell them we should get together. Liberals are traditionally supposed to be suspicious of the government and appreciate the benefit of having our freedom protected by a written Constitution. But in recent years they have soured on that idea somewhat, now that we conservatives have won some recognition for the Dreaded Second Amendment. The Supreme Court said we can have guns, now shortly we will all be dead. The only question is, will blood run in the streets for 200 miles as high as the horses' bridles, or only up to the stirrups? Of course, the truth is, more guns, less crime; if the liberals in politics and the news industry would pay attention to their fellow liberals in academia, the debate would pretty well be over. Liberals don't trust the government, and conservatives don't trust the government, now if we could put our mutual suspicions into a Grand Unified Theory and put some restraint on the excesses of the government that we have now, we ought to be able to build a better life for all. Right now, the debate is about background checks. IMHO, they could write a background check law, without including registration of guns, but they won't. And the law could specifically include a statement that anybody who can pass the background check today cannot be prosecuted for owning an un-registered gun. And if they did that and did a good job of it, we would probably have no reason to oppose such a law and it would pass - which is what they claim to want. Instead they write bills like the Brady Law, over 1000 pages of who knows what; lots of verbiage, plenty of room to hide stuff - never let the hicks and rubes find out what they really want to do. If there are any physicists reading this, they have over a century of experience trying to develop a G. U. T., maybe they can help with this one :D Gun control is supposed to be like driver licenses and car registration. Well, a person with an ordinary driver license can legally drive any vehicle except big trucks and buses and such, so, anyone who can legally own a gun should be allowed to use any gun (probably should include full auto but if it does not, the principle still holds). If my car is dead, I can borrow a car from anyone silly enough to lend it to me and drive it wherever it will go (the police harassed me for about an hour once for doing that but in the end they had to let me go); same with guns.

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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#2 Post by Eris » Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:35 pm

Well, hello!

Sounds like you are interested in building some bridges between liberal and conservative gun owners. Tell us a bit more about yourself. It's traditional around here to ask what kinds of guns you shoot - we like to talk about our guns!
88+ recreational uses of firearms
1 defensive use
0 people injured
0 people killed

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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#3 Post by lurker » Tue Sep 24, 2019 10:00 pm

first, :welcome: . with reservations.
why reservations? because we fairly regularly get new people who come to tell us how to think. they're going to preach their truth and bring the heathens to the light. we've had a bunch of them lately, realizing that Orange Pig is making (no, not making. revealing) the so-called party of fiscal responsibility and family values(sic) into the party of xenophobia and hate, and then they presume to come here and tell US what WE'RE doing wrong.
if you want to last more than a couple of days here, stay away from politics for a while. a couple of weeks maybe. talk about your guns. you have some, right? ask questions. do not presume to lead us poor benighted left-of-centers out of the darkness. after you've been here a while, then you can talk politics. not your first post.

wait, that was mean. here, let's start over: :welcome: what do you shoot?
Last edited by lurker on Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#4 Post by K9s » Wed Sep 25, 2019 1:42 am

I didn't see you mention where you are from and what you like to shoot (revolvers? bolt guns? Glock? ARs? AKs?).

The 2A is for all of us, not just "conservatives" (whatever that means these days).
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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#5 Post by CDFingers » Wed Sep 25, 2019 10:17 am

I'm happy you found us, too. Let's see if it pays off.

I'm a well-restrained-by-self asshole, so I unabashedly here will speak from that perspective for some of us. Pretty much only two things piss me off about "conservatives," and that is "I don't like it so you can't do it" about abortion and marriage equality, and "I don't want my tax dollars to pay for it" while they start unnecessary wars that I don't want and make me pay for them. Just those two broad things.

As a gun-owning liberal, I might hold gun law views with which you may disagree. Those things can be talked out. I live in California, so I know about restrictive laws. I am, however, a 14th Amendment Second Amendment supporter in that the 14th speaks of "persons", and it also incorporates the Second against the states--including California. I'm not a fan of California's gun laws but I totally obey them because laws made by persons can be unmade by persons.

I'm a shooter and a reloader and an aspiring handloader. Politically I stand to the left of our current Democrats.

So, howdy with an abundance of Cauthon.

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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#6 Post by Hiker » Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:35 pm

Welcome from Lexington KY
All religions united with government are more or less inimical to liberty. All, separated from government, are compatible with liberty.-Henry Clay
Both oligarch and tyrant mistrust the people, and therefore deprive them of their arms.—Aristotle

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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#7 Post by K9s » Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:42 pm

I went back and read that first post. I still don't know how to make sense of this line:
But in recent years they have soured on that idea somewhat, now that we conservatives have won some recognition for the Dreaded Second Amendment. The Supreme Court said we can have guns, now shortly we will all be dead.
The border between civilization and savagery is porous and patrolled by opportunists. Resist fascism. Vote like your democracy depends on it.

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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#8 Post by CDFingers » Wed Sep 25, 2019 4:48 pm

K9s wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:42 pm
I went back and read that first post. I still don't know how to make sense of this line:
But in recent years they have soured on that idea somewhat, now that we conservatives have won some recognition for the Dreaded Second Amendment. The Supreme Court said we can have guns, now shortly we will all be dead.
Need context, because, geologically, that is totally true. :-)

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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#9 Post by lurker » Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:14 pm

i think he's saying that the right deserves credit for protecting the 2nd amendment, but global warming will kill us all anyway. the part i don't get is about how deep the blood will run.
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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#10 Post by YankeeTarheel » Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:43 pm

Only one post? Just a screed? Hmmmmm!
If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." -- Mark Twain
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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#11 Post by K9s » Wed Sep 25, 2019 5:56 pm

Maybe he moved on to posting about a current event somewhere else? Or Benghazi or emails? Just a guess.

This election may not be about guns anymore. Seems like it will just be about the dangers of "soshulism" and witch hunts.
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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#12 Post by lurker » Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:04 pm

cauthon:
https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Matrim_Cauthon
"often described as lazy, roguish, immature, tactless, and brazen. He is not afraid to flout any and all authority figures around him, and typically tries whatever he can to shirk responsibility and work. "
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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#13 Post by K9s » Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:18 pm

lurker wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:04 pm
cauthon:
https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Matrim_Cauthon
"often described as lazy, roguish, immature, tactless, and brazen. He is not afraid to flout any and all authority figures around him, and typically tries whatever he can to shirk responsibility and work. "
So... a Trump Republican?
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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#14 Post by lurker » Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:48 pm

probably, yes. except for the authority part. they are positively worshipful of what they believe is the alpha dog, i. e., the loudest leg-humper.
Last edited by lurker on Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#15 Post by YankeeTarheel » Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:52 pm

So...is TM swingin' the Ban Hammer?
If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." -- Mark Twain
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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#16 Post by lurker » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:04 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:52 pm
So...is TM swingin' the Ban Hammer?
ban? why? one post? i don't see anything specifically objectionable except that the post got my guard chihuahua hackles up,and isn't especially coherent. maybe i've/we've misjudged the individual.
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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#17 Post by K9s » Wed Sep 25, 2019 7:24 pm

If you leave up a post like that and just leave without pretending to care about the responses, I guess to poster wasn't serious.

We have physicists here to discuss this Grand Unified Theory, as requested, I bet.

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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#18 Post by CDFingers » Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:54 pm

YankeeTarheel wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:52 pm
So...is TM swingin' the Ban Hammer?
Absolutely and totally nah. One post. Its entire screen life is a construction of our own. Patience. What if it's real? Chill.

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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#19 Post by Mason » Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:07 pm

Def no reason for Bam Hammer yet. Could be fun if he comes back and elaborates. Or further obfuscates...
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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#20 Post by YankeeTarheel » Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:35 pm

Mason wrote:
Wed Sep 25, 2019 9:07 pm
Def no reason for Bam Hammer yet. Could be fun if he comes back and elaborates. Or further obfuscates...
You're the boss! :clap: (been a mod--so happy someone else has the job on this forum!)
If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." -- Mark Twain
My son says: "Don't argue with an idiot. They'll only drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!" -- YT

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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#21 Post by highdesert » Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:35 am

So much to confusion, where to start.
Liberals are traditionally supposed to be suspicious of the government and appreciate the benefit of having our freedom protected by a written Constitution.
:crazy: Conservatives are suspicious of government even if their own party is in charge, they always want to shrink it. Liberals are the ones who see the benefits of government and a written constitution. Where would conservative gun owners be without the 2A.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#22 Post by lurker » Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:30 am

highdesert wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 8:35 am
So much to confusion, where to start.
Liberals are traditionally supposed to be suspicious of the government and appreciate the benefit of having our freedom protected by a written Constitution.
:crazy: Conservatives are suspicious of government even if their own party is in charge, they always want to shrink it. Liberals are the ones who see the benefits of government and a written constitution. Where would conservative gun owners be without the 2A.
this.
liberals historically look to government to do things for people: protect from the whims of the corporations and absurdly rich through regulation, for example. bigger government can do this better, but too much government can become a problem. conservatives typically want government to stay out of people's lives, and prefer it as small as possible. low (or preferably no) taxes is one expression of this. similarly, not enough government can be problematic. in practice, these ideal forms are often paradoxically swapped. sometimes conservatives want the government to impose value systems like anti-abortion and school prayer, and liberals want these values out of their lives. communists and libertarians sit out on the extremes of the continuum*. oddly, conservatives sometimes like to assert that gun-owning liberals are actually libertarian, which is wrong, all wrong, and brings their understanding into doubt.
*it's my experience that if you add the dimension of authoritarianism, the linear continuum curves around to become a circle, with the extremes meeting in some form of stalinism or nazism, overweening state driven by individuals or corporate entities. but that's just my theory, i've never seen anyone else express that notion.
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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#23 Post by K9s » Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:43 am

"conservatives sometimes like to assert that gun-owning liberals are actually libertarian"

Seriously? I have never been accused of being a libertarian. Of course, southern libertarians (e.g. the Pauls) are really just still fighting the "shackles" imposed on southern states after the Civil War. Things like states rights and libertarianism are only used as tools of oppression. It is probably different in other places.
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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#24 Post by lurker » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:18 am

K9s wrote:
Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:43 am
"conservatives sometimes like to assert that gun-owning liberals are actually libertarian"

Seriously? I have never been accused of being a libertarian.
yes, seriously, several times. i think it displays a fundamental lack of understanding of what they're talking about, but then who am i to complain. my assertions above are only my version of elementary polysci, and may bear little or no relation to reality.
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Re: Happy I found you :-)

#25 Post by Mason » Thu Sep 26, 2019 11:53 am

I, also, have been accused of being libertarian because I own guns but reject religion and conservatism.
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