Actually buying process (Dickering)

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Efelkey
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Actually buying process (Dickering)

#1 Post by Efelkey » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:46 pm

So I am new to handguns and really guns in general. Really quick question- Are customers “supposed to and/or allowed to” Dickerson prices of handguns? I see people mention it, but don’t know if there are any tips. I know how to buy a car, but generally don’t use ANY of those techniques in other purchases.


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Re: Actually buying process (Dickering)

#2 Post by beaurrr » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:05 pm

I don't know about 'supposed'. For new guns at dealers, I just pay their price or find another dealer. If it's used or on consignment, I ask nicely if they (or their seller) would consider xyz. With private sales, I always ask (very nicely) if they'll accept xyz. Seems easier for the seller if you counter with a specific price rather than asking for a generic price reduction.

I've walked away from private sales, but it was because of condition, not unwillingness to budge on price. Most private gun sellers seem to have a pretty good grasp on market value.
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Re: Actually buying process (Dickering)

#3 Post by Efelkey » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:22 pm

I guess I don’t really mean “supposed to”. I just have seen a VERY big range of prices for new and some inconsistent pricing in the used options. Don’t want to be rude, but I also don’t want to pay more than I have too.

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Re: Actually buying process (Dickering)

#4 Post by lurker » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:55 pm

i rarely bargain, especially at retail stores. i try to do my homework, know what a thing is worth. if the offer is better, i take it. if the offer is worse, i say "no, thanks" and walk. sometimes it works to my advantage, sometimes not.
this probably isn't the best place for this topic. maybe "buy and sell" or "how to".
Last edited by lurker on Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Actually buying process (Dickering)

#5 Post by atxgunguy » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:08 pm

What Beurr said. Do your homework online and arrive at a price you are comfortable with paying. Keep in mind, any savings you might get from an online sale could quickly get eaten up by FFL fees.

Galleryofguns is a good barometer for new gun prices.
Gunbroker is a good barometer for used.
Genitron.com is a good check on both.

I don’t do private sales unless I know the other person in the transaction. Check your state/local laws regarding legality of private sales.
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Re: Actually buying process (Dickering)

#6 Post by Efelkey » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:16 pm

atxgunguy wrote:What Beurr said. Do your homework online and arrive at a price you are comfortable with paying. Keep in mind, any savings you might get from an online sale could quickly get eaten up by FFL fees.

Galleryofguns is a good barometer for new gun prices.
Gunbroker is a good barometer for used.
Genitron.com is a good check on both.

I don’t do private sales unless I know the other person in the transaction. Check your state/local laws regarding legality of private sales.
I am talking about brick and mortar stores within 20 miles of each other. I was actually shocked to see it. It doesn’t seem to happen with almost any other retail environment. I am happy to see that the store closest to me seems to have the best pricing (at least one what I am looking at) but I just wondered if anyone else had any tips on negotiating or if it frowned upon.

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Re: Actually buying process (Dickering)

#7 Post by danhue » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:26 pm

The main reason to buy from your LGS is to support their local presence, if that is something you can benefit from. For example, my LGS has a pretty good indoor range, and that is something I greatly appreciate. I want them to stay in business, and I know from inside knowledge that it is not a given. They make money from any transfer I bring their way, but I suppose a direct sale is even better for them. They don't usually have the best prices, but I can justify the difference that way.

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Re: Actually buying process (Dickering)

#8 Post by Hiker » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:29 pm

Always dicker! The worst that can happen is they say no.
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Re: Actually buying process (Dickering)

#9 Post by Efelkey » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:30 pm

Hiker wrote:Always dicker! The worst that can happen is they say no.
That’s the answer I was looking for. Lol

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Re: Actually buying process (Dickering)

#10 Post by Efelkey » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:34 pm

I have a new CZ 75 SP-01 Tactical down to 619 and a used one listed at 580. There has to be some room on the used one. Right? Wish me luck tomorrow.

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Re: Actually buying process (Dickering)

#11 Post by sikacz » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:06 pm

Efelkey wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:34 pm
I have a new CZ 75 SP-01 Tactical down to 619 and a used one listed at 580. There has to be some room on the used one. Right? Wish me luck tomorrow.
That would be a depends. The points above cover this pretty well. Asking doesn’t hurt, but don’t be too disappointed if they don’t budge on the used gun.
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Re: Actually buying process (Dickering)

#12 Post by Marlene » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:28 pm

I don’t bother with new stuff. I buy it or I don’t.

Consignment I’ll make offers.

I have one guy I buy a bunch of antique/collectible from. I’ll ask what “my price” is after looking at the tag.

Generally I’ll see what the price is and buy or not. I know what’s fair and I know what’s a deal. I really dislike the offer-counter game playing. I’ll pay an extra fifty on almost anything for a pleasant interaction. I will walk away from a great deal if somebody is playing hardball. I can’t stand that shit; I don’t want to give my money to people who will always make me feel taken, no matter how low the price is.
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Re: Actually buying process (Dickering)

#13 Post by Bisbee » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:12 am

I never pay retail... I'm genetically prohibited from doing so being of Chinese decent. But over the years I've come to appreciate Danhue"s views on supporting your local brick & mortar store. You can do both if you talk price skillfully. It's worthwhile to do your research first. Because I find that once the process starts and you don't have a definite "buy now price" firmly in mind, you're wasting the guy behind the counter's time and he'll know it. So yeah, do like Marlene does.

People who run profitable gun stores... the kind that have lots of people coming in and out and actually moving and trading guns, you have to respect that they really actually know the value of the guns they sell. Go to a store often enough and you'll be surprised at the deals they are willing to offer you just because they know you as a regular. Once I was in the store 5 minutes and picked up a rifle, looked askance at the guy behind the counter who knew it was rare and said to me, "Just came in this afternoon."

"How much?"

"(Price.)"

We lock eyes, him still smiling that knowing smile. Hand him the rifle to start the paperwork. We both know he could get more but he also knew he had a sale with me at that price. That's the way it works sometimes. We both come out grinning and it certainly doesn't have to feel adversarial. If anything, all of us are all enthusiasts at heart so there's communion there.

Now before they start greeting you by your first name when you walk in the store, It's worthwhile to handle a gun you are interested in (safely, respectfully, because they are watching you Noob) and then inquire, "You don't happen to have one of these used, do ya?" That basically says to the guy you are tight on cash and looking for a better price. And if they do it's usually not a bad thing to buy guns used since they rarely wear out (unless obviously carelessly abused). In any case, the implicit bargaining has begun. Alternately you can ask if there are any big holiday sales coming up or stuff like that.

If they are willing to go down on price they may offer it right there. "If you take it right now we can swallow the sales tax," or something like that. But let them make the first offer if they are willing to bargain at all. It ain't like buying a used car though and throwing out a lowball price with the intention to work up usually gets you nothing but a glare and grumble.

Now things are a bit different at pawn shops. There they are usually very open about negotiating and almost expect it so feel free to flex your car buying skills there. But you'll be lucky if they don't fleece you and still make you feel lucky for getting poked. You really have to know your prices if you go into a pawn shop. But I've gotten plenty of good deals there because, again, they want to make a sale at the end of the day. Again, both sides can come out smiling if you truly know the price you are willing to pay.

Fro your first few guns, don't worry about getting the best deal. Just go on Gunbroker and find the lowest price (calculate all the shipping and FFL transfer fees) to know the absolute lowest you can get it for if you're wiling to go through the time and hassle. Have that price in mind when you go to the store. You'll naturally feel what the sweet spot is for that gun over a few visits. No one says you have to buy it on the first visit. Most old tymers are known to visit the store again and again, pawing the same gun over and over again telling the same stories about how they used to own a gun just like it back when it was $20 new... until one day they reach for their billfold and the store owner wipes a tear from his eye.
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Actually buying process (Dickering)

#14 Post by Bucolic » Fri Nov 30, 2018 6:33 am

Bisbee, did the insomnia kick in? Great post.

I buy either from a local trading post that also sells new guns or from a family-owned, multi-generational sporting goods store that sells mostly hunting and fishing gear and, if they had an old pickle barrel, would have three or four local geriatric guys standing around telling lies to one another full-time. They are a CZ dealer. Both places know me well since I drop in to hang out every month or so. (We never talk politics)

In the case of the trading post, I ask them what their best cash price is. Normally I’ll get a substantial discount on used guns. Their new gun prices are competitive with other local and on-line sellers and are usually firm but include sales tax and transfer fees.

I only buy new guns from the latter. I ask for their cash price and they generally reduce list enough to compensate for sales tax.

At either place, buying is always a nice experience. One of the pleasures of shopping local and small.
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Re: Actually buying process (Dickering)

#15 Post by YankeeTarheel » Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:06 am

Bisbee wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:12 am
I never pay retail... I'm genetically prohibited from doing so being of Chinese decent.
There's a fine old word in Yiddish for it: Hondel. 2nd hand stores, like pawn shops and yard sales are where the fine art of hondeling comes in. Better known as horse-trading.
However, if someone says "Jew the price down" whether they are selling or buying, we're done--no sale, and, as Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails responded to Ted Cruz's request to be on the VIP invited guest list at a NIN concert: "Fuck off!"
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Re: Actually buying process (Dickering)

#16 Post by atxgunguy » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:12 am

Cash is king in small shops. You get a much better deal as small businesses don't have to eat the often egregious Credit Card fees associated with a plastic purchase.

That said, I always pay cash. Keeps me from overspending. Bringing only what you're willing to shell out immediately sets your limit. I'm weird like that.

Big Box stores don't give a hoot. It's just a purchase and a small profit for their bottom line. The only upside is that some Big Box stores will Price Match others just to get the sale. That's a process I don't care to engage in nor have the mental wherewithall to deal with just to save what usually amounts to less than $50. Cost-benefit of my time vs. saving money is always a factor. As Maureen said, I'm usually willing to pay an extra fifty on almost anything for a pleasant interaction.
Last edited by atxgunguy on Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Actually buying process (Dickering)

#17 Post by danhue » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:46 am

Very interesting thread. I didn’t know about cash vs credit. Will have to try it next time.

What about trading a gun? How does that change the picture? What kind of value to expect. I read once to expect half the average used sale price on GunBroker. Does that sound right?

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Re: Actually buying process (Dickering)

#18 Post by atxgunguy » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:21 pm

danhue wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:46 am
Very interesting thread. I didn’t know about cash vs credit. Will have to try it next time.

What about trading a gun? How does that change the picture? What kind of value to expect. I read once to expect half the average used sale price on GunBroker. Does that sound right?
Know the least you'd take for it, when the dealer asks how much you'd take...add 20% to that value. You'll most likely get what you're actually willing to take for it. At least that's been my experience, YMMV.

To that end, most of the lazier dealers WILL just look up your gun on Gunbroker and offer 50% of that. At this point, I definitely know which gun stores are better for selling and which are better for buying used guns. The funny thing is the ones that do the Gunbroker minus 50% are the BEST for buying from. :huh:

In used sales and trade-ins, Brand is usually the most determining factor. Colt, Smith & Wesson, H&K generally garner the biggest resale values as they are the easiest to sell to the largest group of gun buyers. Condition is also a big factor. Expect the offer to be marked down for every ding, dent, scratch the dealer finds on it. Accessories generally don't get you much extra, but factors like having the original box/case/factory mags will get you some room for negotiation.

Some stores have trade-in sales, where you get 10% off a new purchase when you trade-in a gun for it.

For a straight up selling used guns...most places will do a cash offer, but some are strictly consignment only. Your profit is usually 80% of whatever the agreed consignment price is, payable upon the dealer selling it. If you're not in hurry to get the money, this is generally the best way to get the most.
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