Re: Black Death

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tonguengroover wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:36 am
58Hawken wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:48 am The main character in Rodriguez' Predators quotes it. I like that movie way too much. Particularly the dog scene. Having hunted with dogs multiple times, there's something about the portrayal of being on the other end of it that appeals to me.
Man hunting man will turn a person into an animal. Many who have gone through war will have nothing to do with guns ever again. Some turn into mice. Or killers like Lennie.
Hmm. Nice take. Time to rewatch the movie.

Re: Black Death

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“Papa” is indeed a man’s man. I’ve made pilgrimages to two of his homes (and writing studios) and tried to commune with the “spirit” of of the man who wrote so many of the books that moved me in my youth.

However, what haunted me in both those visits was the unforgettable memory of how he died. In my later years I’ve been struggling with the trauma of loss and death and have always managed my own feelings of manic-depressive episodes. “Why would he do it? What made him swallow both barrels of a shotgun like that?”

I make no pronouncements on a great man and a sensitive sensitive artist who lost his ability to write. But I am trying to learn from his example, in every way possible, and avoid repeating (unnecessarily) the mistakes of others.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Black Death

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Bisbee, as you probably know alcoholism and depression go hand in hand. I find it disturbing that great writers and artists suffer/ed from both. I have several of his books in my library. I forgot which one I read last where the ending was like - What? You cannot stop there! I may need to read them again.

On a brighter note. The wife has got me back into Yoga. That which my body really needs at my age. In my younger years I used to do Tai-chi. Alas, I have forgotten many movements. Movement and stretching is great for the body and soul. Its hard for me to meditate because of back problems.
Apologies to the OP for getting off topic.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

Re: Black Death

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I've eaten lots of water buffalo which looks kind of similar but is an entirely different creature. Water buffalo are so tame that kids go to sleep on their backs. Often the chore for small children is to watch over the buffalo all day long and keep it out of the rice paddy, they do this with a simple stern word or a small switch to swat it with. Water buffalo are rapidly being replaced with the "iron buffalo" which can't be eaten and doesn't require watching when not being used. At a couple thousand pounds they are a lot of meat.

Re: Black Death

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Hemingway also wrote "Death in the Afternoon" about bullfighting then considered a very manly sport. I've seen bullfights and it is something to watch and it seemed that every city and town had a plaza de toros. There are even female bullfighters (matadors) now.

I enjoyed Hemingways "A Moveable Feast" about his years living in Paris and developing as a writer. The title comes from a quote,
"If you are lucky enough to have lived in Paris as a young man, then wherever you go for the rest of your life, it stays with you, for Paris is a movable feast." - Ernest Hemingway, to a friend, 1950
Gertrude Stein was very influential on the young writer and her Paris salon filled with many of the writers of the day.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Black Death

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highdesert wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:43 am Hemingway also wrote "Death in the Afternoon" about bullfighting then considered a very manly sport. I've seen bullfights and it is something to watch and it seemed that every city and town had a plaza de toros. There are even female bullfighters (matadors) now.
Bullfighting is one I'm torn on. I don't take a categorical exception to "blood sports". There's nuance to everything. Rodeo clowns display the same bravado in their sport, save for setting spears by hand to slow the animal. The animals arguably live better lives than their factory farmed counterparts. The meat is eaten and even popular among hipster locavores.The killing stroke is intended to sever the animals aorta and/or pierce the heart for a quick death. However, it's not unknown for matadors to drug their spears. That killing blow can be blundered as often as not resulting in prolonged suffering. As well as extending the time between setting spears and delivering the fatal stroke.

I offered to take my daughters to a bullfight in Mexico if it was within their interest. The older who hunts said she didn't have a problem killing the animals, but she wasn't interested in going to a show where the main performer is killed. Fair enough.

Re: Black Death

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58Hawken wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:50 pm
highdesert wrote: Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:43 am Hemingway also wrote "Death in the Afternoon" about bullfighting then considered a very manly sport. I've seen bullfights and it is something to watch and it seemed that every city and town had a plaza de toros. There are even female bullfighters (matadors) now.
Bullfighting is one I'm torn on. I don't take a categorical exception to "blood sports". There's nuance to everything. Rodeo clowns display the same bravado in their sport, save for setting spears by hand to slow the animal. The animals arguably live better lives than their factory farmed counterparts. The meat is eaten and even popular among hipster locavores.The killing stroke is intended to sever the animals aorta and/or pierce the heart for a quick death. However, it's not unknown for matadors to drug their spears. That killing blow can be blundered as often as not resulting in prolonged suffering. As well as extending the time between setting spears and delivering the fatal stroke.

I offered to take my daughters to a bullfight in Mexico if it was within their interest. The older who hunts said she didn't have a problem killing the animals, but she wasn't interested in going to a show where the main performer is killed. Fair enough.
I attended a few in Spain when I was younger. In Spain there are very old ranches that breed nothing but bulls for the ring weighing 1,000 lbs or more. You could walk by the bull pens then before the events and the weight was posted for each bull. The matador with his suit of lights and red cape (bulls are colorblind) and his assistants. If the matador mucked it up and didn't kill the bull correctly, assistants would run in and severe the spine and it was over. A matador who mucked it up got booed out of the ring and people remembered next time he entered the ring. Matadors have been gored to death. Portuguese bullfighting is different, the bull isn't killed at the end and the bulls horns are either cut or covered to protect the matador, but still a very large animal.

I'm not an advocate, never been to one in Mexico even though it's close. Very much a cultural thing.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Black Death

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I like the skill of the bullfight/er Like getting out in the ring and standing there without getting killed while the bull charges and charges. Seen a couple in Mexico. Not to fond of them torturing it with the little spears.
Had a close call with a Brahma bull once. Out in the boonies (open range) and stopped to take a whiz, walked out into the brush a little, then I noticed the bull about 20 yards away. He snorted and kicked up some dirt, then started running at me. Had to cut it short and just made it to the truck. Thought the bull was going to come through the window. Gott pay more attention the surroundings.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

Re: Black Death

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I’ve gone to see a bullfight in Mexico City. It was a spectacle, artistic performance, and a true sport. What is the difference between this form of killing and trophy hunting? I guess the fact that the matador actively risks his own life and limbs while competing for the life of the bull makes all the difference IMHO. That level of skill, bravery, and concentration is truly something to behold.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Black Death

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No, I guess not. But maybe it is just the illusion that both combatants stand an equal chance of winning that I am seeing.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Black Death

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wooglin wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:33 pm
Bisbee wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:25 pm and a true sport.
Not for the bull.
Like I said at the beginning of the thread. "There's no sport without a good chance of being gored." Happens bull fights occasionally, but could use more.

There were some local "bull runs" a la Pamplona I was interested in. Just a bunch of docile bovines wandering the track like the South Park clip below. I'm undecided if the real thing with a better chance of getting a horn where the sun don't shine is on the bucket list.

https://southpark.cc.com/clips/150808/t ... t=playlist

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