Re: Remember the Alamo

2
Nice. The Soanish short sword brings to mind a Roman gladius for some reason, despite the different tips. Have you shot the Hawken much? Supposedly an experienced rifleman back in the day could reload, aim, and fire his muzzleloader every twenty seconds (3 times a minute). Maybe that's for smooth bores, not sure about rifles. Is that close to true in your experience?
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Re: Remember the Alamo

7
atxgunguy wrote:You need a Bowie knife to complete the ensemble.
That, sir, is an outstanding idea.
HuckleberryFun wrote:Nice. The Soanish short sword brings to mind a Roman gladius for some reason, despite the different tips. Have you shot the Hawken much? Supposedly an experienced rifleman back in the day could reload, aim, and fire his muzzleloader every twenty seconds (3 times a minute). Maybe that's for smooth bores, not sure about rifles. Is that close to true in your experience?

According to the sword smith, he based the commission off some drawings and museums pieces:
The most commonly carried that I am seeing for Mexican army soldiers would be the Spanish Espada ancha: Spanish Short Sword
Espada ancha or wide sword of the type that was carried by the soldados de cuera. This crudely fashioned specimen, made with an 15 inch cut off saber blade, was found in Canyon del Muerto in northeastern Arizona, and dates from about 1800. Many of the short swords were made in the northern provinces and were preferred by its soldiers to the larger cavalry saber. The espada ancha was carried in a leather scabbard, attached to the saddle, hilt forward, on the left side, or sometimes on a sling hung over the soldier's right shoulder. Officers would of carried a fancier sword
I have shot the Hawken enough to know I need to shoot it more and it functions.

There's an art to Flintlocks.

Re: Remember the Alamo

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highdesert wrote:The Spanish made the best swords, the secret was the steel - Toledo steel. They are still made in Toledo but now more for ceremonial purposes.

https://nujournalism2015.wordpress.com/ ... ion-alive/
I've been to Toledo, so I can vouch for that. They also have 1000 year old churches where, I swear, you can *smell* the OLD. Hmm, come to think of it a lot of those old churches were founded under the sword, so...maybe a connection?
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Re: Remember the Alamo

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HuckleberryFun wrote:Supposedly an experienced rifleman back in the day could reload, aim, and fire his muzzleloader every twenty seconds (3 times a minute).
during the civil war soldiers trained to load and shoot 3 times a minute with minie balls out of a rifled musket. reenactors (although we don't usually load bullets) can do this, but it's a quick-quick hurry-up process. smoothbores are faster, but you pay for rate of fire with range and accuracy. rifles with patched round balls were slower. this is why the minie bullet was important, best of both worlds until breech-loaders became available.
i'm retired. what's your excuse?

Re: Remember the Alamo

13
HuckleberryFun wrote:
highdesert wrote:The Spanish made the best swords, the secret was the steel - Toledo steel. They are still made in Toledo but now more for ceremonial purposes.

https://nujournalism2015.wordpress.com/ ... ion-alive/
I've been to Toledo, so I can vouch for that. They also have 1000 year old churches where, I swear, you can *smell* the OLD. Hmm, come to think of it a lot of those old churches were founded under the sword, so...maybe a connection?
It's a beautiful walled city, capital of Spain long before Madrid. It suffered a lot during the Spanish Civil War but recovered. The Spanish Infantry School is across the river. I have a sword I bought there someplace, Bermejo Toledo. The cathedral is a masterpiece.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Remember the Alamo

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HuckleberryFun wrote:Hmm, come to think of it a lot of those old churches were founded under the sword, so...maybe a connection?
the history of spain is very instructive. spain was colonized by the phoenicians, then alternately a carthaginian and roman province, overrun by goths, visigoths and vandals on their roundabout way to rome. oddly enough, the spanish language is perhaps the closest of the romance languages to latin, as if the germanic barbarians just passed through, replaced the local elites, and interfered very little in the lives of the common people.
muslims from north africa came across the straits of gibraltar in 711, took all of spain and tried for france until repelled by charlemagne's grandfather, charles (the hammer) martel at poitiers. if you're interested, read Song of Roland, which is a mish-mash of that campaign and the crusades to the holy lands.
el cid (charleton heston, sophia loren) united spanish jews, muslims and christians and drove out the african muslims. later spanish jews and christians drove out the spanish muslims with the help of crusaders. the crusades were not just in asia minor, in fact spanish christians complained to the pope about sending crusaders east when they wanted them in spain. then in 1492 (columbus sailed the ocean blue) they forcibly converted or expelled spanish jews. then they began chewing on other spanish christians. the inquisition had existed before then, but kicked into high gear once they got rid of the jews and muslims. it's an informative exercise in the re-definition of good vs bad.

meanwhile, for approximately 700 years, spanish muslims lived alongside christians, sometimes peacefully, sometimes not, and profoundly affected spain's culture and language. steel-making techniques (along with many other advances) came to toledo from damascus.

edit edit edit dam typos.
Last edited by lurker on Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.
i'm retired. what's your excuse?

Remember the Alamo

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Mohead wrote:
Inquisitor wrote:
Mohead wrote:I like this. Never have gotten into the antique/replica game, but that sword appeals to me in a serious way.
The smith:
http://kingsforgeandmuzzleloading.com/

Also on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/kingsforgeandmuzzleloading/

Real nice guy, good work.
That's some beautiful work.
I have 3 pieces by them, a 36 cal handgonne with match holder, this Spanish short sword, and a neat pirate cutlass with a built in flintlock pistol.

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Re: Remember the Alamo

18
lurker wrote:
HuckleberryFun wrote:Hmm, come to think of it a lot of those old churches were founded under the sword, so...maybe a connection?
the history of spain is very instructive. spain was alternatrely a carthaginian and roman province, overrun by goths, visigoths and vandals before rome fell. oddly enough, the spanish language is perhaps the closest of the romance languages to latin, as if the germanic barbarians just passed through, replaced the local elites, and interfered very little in the lives of the common people.
muslims from north africa came across the straits of gibraltar in 711, took all of spain and tried for france until repelled by charlemagne's grandfather, charles (the hammer) martel at poitiers. if you're interested, read Song of Roland, which is a mish-mash of that campaign and the crusades to the holy lands.
el cid (charleton heston, sophia loren) united spanish jews, muslims and christians and drove out the african muslims. later spanish jews and christians drove out the spanish muslims with the help of crusaders. the crusades were not just in asia minor. then in 1492 (columbus sailed the ocean blue) they forcibly converted or expelled spanish jews. then they began chewing on other spanish christians. the inquisition had existed before then, but kicked into high gear once they got rid of the jews and muslims. it's an informative exercise in the re-definition of good vs bad.

meanwhile, for approximately 700 years, spanish muslims lived alongside christians, sometimes peacefully, sometimes not, and profoundly affected spain's culture and language. steel-making techniques (along with many other advances) came to toledo from damascus.
And blame "Their Catholic Majesties" Ferdinand and Isabella for ending it with their battles of "reconquista".

Don't mean to hijack the thread.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Re: Remember the Alamo

19
highdesert wrote:
lurker wrote:
HuckleberryFun wrote:Hmm, come to think of it a lot of those old churches were founded under the sword, so...maybe a connection?
the history of spain is very instructive. spain was alternatrely a carthaginian and roman province, overrun by goths, visigoths and vandals before rome fell. oddly enough, the spanish language is perhaps the closest of the romance languages to latin, as if the germanic barbarians just passed through, replaced the local elites, and interfered very little in the lives of the common people.
muslims from north africa came across the straits of gibraltar in 711, took all of spain and tried for france until repelled by charlemagne's grandfather, charles (the hammer) martel at poitiers. if you're interested, read Song of Roland, which is a mish-mash of that campaign and the crusades to the holy lands.
el cid (charleton heston, sophia loren) united spanish jews, muslims and christians and drove out the african muslims. later spanish jews and christians drove out the spanish muslims with the help of crusaders. the crusades were not just in asia minor. then in 1492 (columbus sailed the ocean blue) they forcibly converted or expelled spanish jews. then they began chewing on other spanish christians. the inquisition had existed before then, but kicked into high gear once they got rid of the jews and muslims. it's an informative exercise in the re-definition of good vs bad.

meanwhile, for approximately 700 years, spanish muslims lived alongside christians, sometimes peacefully, sometimes not, and profoundly affected spain's culture and language. steel-making techniques (along with many other advances) came to toledo from damascus.
And blame "Their Catholic Majesties" Ferdinand and Isabella for ending it with their battles of "reconquista".

Don't mean to hijack the thread.
History is cool. That's why I own some of this stuff :)

Re: Remember the Alamo

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highdesert wrote:And blame "Their Catholic Majesties" Ferdinand and Isabella for ending it with their battles of "reconquista".

Don't mean to hijack the thread.
thread drift is the norm here.
"blame" is a strong word to use in the context of re-conquista.
one of the interesting features of the colombus/isabella/ferdinand thing was that columbus proposed to establish direct trade routes to india, bypassing asian trade routes and making enough gold to buy the holy land from the muslims. unfortunately, he underestimated the distance, and there were two continents in the way. :oops2:
i'm retired. what's your excuse?

Re: Remember the Alamo

21
Inquisitor wrote:I acquired a Spanish short sword replica from about the time of the Alamo. My Hawken replica would also not have been unlikely to have appeared.
Most likely it was there. There was evidently quite a mish-mash of weapons at the Alamo. The defenders came from all over what was then the U.S. and several foreign countries:
http://www.tamu.edu/faculty/ccbn/dewitt ... _arms.html
I dearly love the state of Texas, but I consider that a harmless perversion on my part, and discuss it only with consenting adults. --Molly Ivins

if they give you lined paper, write sideways.--Juan Ramon Jimenez

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