ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

The place to find LGC Postal Matches, our own Bullseye Club, and ongoing conversations about marksmanship, practice, and safety.

Moderators: admin, Inquisitor, Paco, Bucolic, ForumModerator, Marksman Mods

User avatar
Bucolic
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 8298
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 5:51 am
Location: Southern PA.
Contact:

ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by Bucolic »

In response to a number of your suggestions, I am initiating a new Postal Match entitled Even-Handed Justice. (Thanks to SailDesign for the catchy title.) This match will test your one-handed pistol technique. The match will have separate classes for dominant and non-dominant hands as well as for rimfire and centerfire. The targets and scoring will be the same as for the Bullseye Matches with some modifications. Specifically, the match will be shot from 10 yards, not 15, and there will be no distinction between iron and glass sights.

Each entry will consist of three strings of 10 rounds each, shot identically to the Bullseye matches except that you will shoot from 10 yards. That means that there are four classes:

1. Rimfire, dominant hand
2. Rimfire, non-dominant hand
3. Centerfire, dominant hand
4. Centerfire, non-dominant hand

Winners will be awarded in each class and, in the cases where the shooter enters results for both hands, the aggregate score will be computed for overall rimfire and centerfire winners.

See the post on Bullseye Match 16 for details on targets and scoring as well as how to submit your scores. Closing date for the match will be September 4th, the day after Labor Day.

I have shot the match and found it to be fun, if daunting. Give it a try!

Post any questions you have but be sure to check the Bullseye Match 16 information first.

Bucolic, standing in for Paco
Image

BlutoBlutarsky
Helpful Contributor
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 10:23 am
Contact:

Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by BlutoBlutarsky »

This sounds like a lot of fun. It's been a LONG time since I participated in a postal match.

User avatar
Bucolic
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 8298
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 5:51 am
Location: Southern PA.
Contact:

Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by Bucolic »

Give it a try. For me, moving it from 15 to 10 yards made it more fun since I managed to get all my rounds on paper. At 15, I think I would have missed more than a couple.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Image

User avatar
CDFingers
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 23425
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm
Location: Member LGC: norCal
Contact:

Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by CDFingers »

I like it. 10 yards will make 15 seem like a nearby zip code.

I've always liked keeping my weak hand in my pocket. I know, TMI. :-)

CDFingers
ImageImage
Jack Straw from Wichita cut his buddy down
Dug for him a shallow grave and laid his body down

User avatar
Bucolic
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 8298
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 5:51 am
Location: Southern PA.
Contact:

Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by Bucolic »

Er...I am suppressing my knee jerk clever response...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Image

User avatar
leitmotiv
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 416
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:12 pm
Location: East Bay, CA
Contact:

Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by leitmotiv »

Shot this yesterday both rimfire and centerfire dominant along with the regular match. I think I scored better on the rimfire of this one than I ever have on the regular match. I’m guessing it’s because of the 10 yard target.

Go figure
Image

Image Image

User avatar
Bucolic
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 8298
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 5:51 am
Location: Southern PA.
Contact:

Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by Bucolic »

leitmotiv wrote:Shot this yesterday both rimfire and centerfire dominant along with the regular match. I think I scored better on the rimfire of this one than I ever have on the regular match. I’m guessing it’s because of the 10 yard target.

Go figure
Be sure to send your scores to scores@erleichda.org. I think those extra five yards add serious difficulty.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Image

User avatar
ErikO
Carpal Tunnel
Posts: 15544
Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 10:49 pm
Location: LGC MEMBER: St Louis, Missouri
Contact:

Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by ErikO »

Will be fun to try. Been a little while since I shot pistol.
In a bacon, egg and cheese sandwich the chicken and cow are involved while the pig is committed.

User avatar
Bacchus
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 3375
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Corvallis,Oregon (LGC Member)
Contact:

Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by Bacchus »

Hot damn, this is going to be a fun one. :D

Thanks for putting this together, Bucolic!

Unrelated, but I just did some shooting with my weak hand yesterday, centerfire 9mm, but only at 10 yards. Gotta get that practice in!

Unrelated to the Postal Match: I find that shooting one handed, both strong and weak, helps me focus on fundamentals. I also find it's easier to focus on the grip and trigger pull, as the support hand is taken out of the equation, and the stance tends to be relaxed and neutral. Strength becomes an issue, and so does timing- one can't leave that arm hanging out there all day without quivers setting in. :)
"I am not a number, I am a free man!" - Number Six

Image
ImageImage

User avatar
SailDesign
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 4459
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:38 am
Location: Rhode Island
Contact:

Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by SailDesign »

Bacchus wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:28 pm
Hot damn, this is going to be a fun one. :D

Thanks for putting this together, Bucolic!

Unrelated, but I just did some shooting with my weak hand yesterday, centerfire 9mm, but only at 10 yards. Gotta get that practice in!

Unrelated to the Postal Match: I find that shooting one handed, both strong and weak, helps me focus on fundamentals. I also find it's easier to focus on the grip and trigger pull, as the support hand is taken out of the equation, and the stance tends to be relaxed and neutral. Strength becomes an issue, and so does timing- one can't leave that arm hanging out there all day without quivers setting in. :)
That last sentence is key for me. With moderate carpal-tunnel crud going on, my wrist and fingers are less than optimum for most single-handed shooting. Luckily, I am left-handed, so my right (afected) hand is th weak hand anyway. Also luckily, the new Bull-Short pistola has very sweet weight of pull...

It will be interesting.
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo.

ImageImageImage

User avatar
Bacchus
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 3375
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:06 pm
Location: Corvallis,Oregon (LGC Member)
Contact:

Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by Bacchus »

SailDesign wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:44 pm
Bacchus wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:28 pm
Hot damn, this is going to be a fun one. :D

Thanks for putting this together, Bucolic!

Unrelated, but I just did some shooting with my weak hand yesterday, centerfire 9mm, but only at 10 yards. Gotta get that practice in!

Unrelated to the Postal Match: I find that shooting one handed, both strong and weak, helps me focus on fundamentals. I also find it's easier to focus on the grip and trigger pull, as the support hand is taken out of the equation, and the stance tends to be relaxed and neutral. Strength becomes an issue, and so does timing- one can't leave that arm hanging out there all day without quivers setting in. :)
That last sentence is key for me. With moderate carpal-tunnel crud going on, my wrist and fingers are less than optimum for most single-handed shooting. Luckily, I am left-handed, so my right (afected) hand is th weak hand anyway. Also luckily, the new Bull-Short pistola has very sweet weight of pull...

It will be interesting.
I'm looking forward to seeing the differential between scores, on a personal level, to gauge the impact of two-handed shooting over single. I've got carpal-tunnel going on as well (and tendonitis, arthritis, oldguyitis...) from too much typing and not enough shooting in my life. ;) Another tricky issue: getting back on target in the centerfire rapid fire string. I usually let my wrist roll with the recoil when shooting single handed, but that's going to take too long to get back on target. Should be lively!
"I am not a number, I am a free man!" - Number Six

Image
ImageImage

User avatar
Bucolic
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 8298
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 5:51 am
Location: Southern PA.
Contact:

ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by Bucolic »

I found that strength was definitely a factor when shooting with my weak, left, hand. The amplitude of the quivers did increase to the point that, after shooting the three strings, I would not have been able to shoot another with any semblance of accuracy.

I am going to add one handed shooting to my practice routine.

I’ll also try two hands at ten yards for comparison. My one handed scores at 10 yards were pretty similar to my two handed scores at 15.
Image

User avatar
Buck13
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 3513
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 11:21 pm
Location: Puget Sound Convergence Zone
Contact:

Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by Buck13 »

Can I get a ruling on this? My preferred range has fixed target holders at 7 yards, 50 feet and 25 yards. I could go to the indoor range to shoot at 10 yards, but shooting inside a concrete box during the few reliably rain-free weeks of the year is a bit sad. Maybe shoot the B-2 and B-3 targets at 7 yards but printed at 65% scale (as opposed to 70%) to offset the advantage of the target getting smaller but the bullet staying the same diameter?

I'm OK with the indoor range if shooting scaled at 7 seems unfair, but it's extra money for admission (outdoor range is flat rate for the annual membership) and, more importantly, less scenic.
IMR4227: Zero to 900 in 0.001 seconds

I'm only killing paper and my self-esteem.

ImageImage

User avatar
Bucolic
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 8298
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 5:51 am
Location: Southern PA.
Contact:

Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by Bucolic »

I’m okay with your shooting at 7 yards and scaling. Can you copy the targets at 70% magnification?
Image

User avatar
SailDesign
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 4459
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:38 am
Location: Rhode Island
Contact:

Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by SailDesign »

Buck13 wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:09 pm
Can I get a ruling on this? My preferred range has fixed target holders at 7 yards, 50 feet and 25 yards. I could go to the indoor range to shoot at 10 yards, but shooting inside a concrete box during the few reliably rain-free weeks of the year is a bit sad. Maybe shoot the B-2 and B-3 targets at 7 yards but printed at 65% scale (as opposed to 70%) to offset the advantage of the target getting smaller but the bullet staying the same diameter?

I'm OK with the indoor range if shooting scaled at 7 seems unfair, but it's extra money for admission (outdoor range is flat rate for the annual membership) and, more importantly, less scenic.
I'm curious (I don't have an issue, but...) as to what calibre you are shooting. If you shrink the target, then the boolit-holes get correspondingly bigger, so with an "inside-counts" scoring system, you gain to the point of effectively using 0.64" bullets rather than 0.45" (as a sample)

Us .22 folks get the short end of the stick to start with....

As I say, I'm fine with it, just as long as we all understand the changes here - it is not just a question of target size... :)

And Yes, I really AM fine with it. This is for fun, not points .
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo.

ImageImageImage

User avatar
Bucolic
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 8298
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 5:51 am
Location: Southern PA.
Contact:

Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by Bucolic »

Good point, Sail. But, as you say, this is for fun. We can always put an asterisk next to scaled scores.

I would argue that we .22 shooters have the advantage that its an easier round to shoot well at these distances...
Image

User avatar
SailDesign
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 4459
Joined: Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:38 am
Location: Rhode Island
Contact:

Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by SailDesign »

Bucolic wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:12 pm
Good point, Sail. But, as you say, this is for fun. We can always put an asterisk next to scaled scores.

I would argue that we .22 shooters have the advantage that its an easier round to shoot well at these distances...
Sssshhhhh.... I was stacking up my excuses.... :D
"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo.

ImageImageImage

User avatar
Buck13
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 3513
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 11:21 pm
Location: Puget Sound Convergence Zone
Contact:

Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by Buck13 »

I don't have the calculations in front of me still, but IIRC from a few weeks ago when I tried to work this out, for .36 caliber bullets, printing at 65% instead of 70% would offset the angular advantage of the closer target pretty closely. For .22 there would be a slight penalty, and for .43 it would still be cheating.

I should recheck my math. I'll probably get a different result by making some different mistakes this time!
IMR4227: Zero to 900 in 0.001 seconds

I'm only killing paper and my self-esteem.

ImageImage

User avatar
Bucolic
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 8298
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 5:51 am
Location: Southern PA.
Contact:

Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by Bucolic »

Bumping this.

Bullseye Match 16 is now closed. Consider shooting this match. Closing date is September 4, the day after Labor Day.
Image

User avatar
StopCollaborate
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:33 am
Contact:

Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by StopCollaborate »

I have targets arriving at my house today, need to renew my range membership and get practicing! First competition of any sort for me, and an excuse to finally get some mileage out of my 5” barrel ha.

User avatar
Bucolic
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 8298
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 5:51 am
Location: Southern PA.
Contact:

Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by Bucolic »

All right! Good luck! Let us know if you have any questions.
Image

User avatar
Buck13
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 3513
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 11:21 pm
Location: Puget Sound Convergence Zone
Contact:

Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by Buck13 »

Well, my spousal critter decided she preferred to go to the indoor range today, so I was able to shoot one round of the match at 10 yards after all. After some screwing around with a little one-handed strong- and weak-side shooting with rental guns (Glock 41 and Springfield 1911 Range Officers in .45 and 9 mm (on both of which some yahoo had adjusted the rear sight way off to the right, which took me a while to figure out...I thought I was just erring to the right consistently)) and my 5.5" MkII, I settled in to shoot the centerfire non-dominant hand match with my S&W 19-3.

It probably would have been a better choice to buy another box of 9 mm and shoot it with the 1911, but while I did a little worse than I hoped, it was better than I feared. Score was above my average for the centerfire 15 yard matches. I'd done a few short sessions of weak-hand dry fire practice recently, which looked pretty good, but of course I forgot most of that in the event.

Looking forward to shooting the other three parts of the match!
IMR4227: Zero to 900 in 0.001 seconds

I'm only killing paper and my self-esteem.

ImageImage

User avatar
Bucolic
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 8298
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 5:51 am
Location: Southern PA.
Contact:

Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by Bucolic »

Thanks, Buck13! Got your score.

A note of clarification to those considering shooting the match: you don’t need to shoot all four classes. Winners in each of the four classes, strong hand rimfire, weak hand rimfire, etc, will be scored separately.
Image

User avatar
Bucolic
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 8298
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 5:51 am
Location: Southern PA.
Contact:

Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by Bucolic »

Bumpity bump.

It finally stopped raining and I had plans to go to the range to shoot the two centerfire classes. The range doesn’t open on Sunday until noon due to its proximity to a church. It’s not yet 11 and it’s already too hot, humid, and cloudless to go shoot. Hopefully tomorrow.

Image

User avatar
Bucolic
Verified Member
Verified Member
Posts: 8298
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 5:51 am
Location: Southern PA.
Contact:

Re: ANNOUNCING A NEW POSTAL MATCH - “Even-Handed Justice”

Post by Bucolic »

I am humbled...

Having already shot the rimfire classes, and feeling pretty good about myself, I expected to do pretty well with centerfire. So I shot the one-handed strong and weak centerfire classes with my CZ Sp-01 this morning. I was in a bit of a rush and did not really have time to practice. I shot the strong hand first and then the weak, which may account for my weak score being better than my strong.

The good news: I put all 60 rounds on paper, if not on the scoring areas.

The bad: my scores sucked at 185 and 210 for the strong and weak hands, respectively.

Must practice, practice, practice...

Image

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest