Re: Point Shooting

51
If you want to learn to do this, I suggest starting slow without worrying too much about speed. Learn to hit where you want to hit first. After you can do that consistently then you can work on increasing speed.

As many people have said many times, you can't miss fast enough to win.
"In every generation there are those who want to rule well - but they mean to rule. They promise to be good masters - but they mean to be masters." — Daniel Webster

Re: Point Shooting

52
rascally wrote:If you want to learn to do this, I suggest starting slow without worrying too much about speed. Learn to hit where you want to hit first. After you can do that consistently then you can work on increasing speed.

As many people have said many times, you can't miss fast enough to win.
Yes, definitely. Though I admit to speeding up once I started getting close to the target - Not saying it was the right thing to do...!

As for the "gun is an extension of your arm" - Now here's where things get interesting - When you throw your Atlatl, or just some old rock for that matter, you don't think about the rock at all. You think about the target. Most people (excluding folks whose game is clays) start thinking about the gun when they are shooting. I know I do. I asked Spencer Hoglund (http://www.spencerhoglund.com/files/MTL ... er1316.wmv) about this, and he said that he started with shotguns, and it was a big advantage. He said it was a full time job being world champion, endless practice, every day.

Re: Point Shooting

54
I'm a huge proponent of "Point Shooting" and I'm self taught but got tutored by my FIL and some of his law enforcement buddies...a couple of these old geezers were in real gunfights and enforced the law back in the 20's and 30's during prohibition and such. I learned at an early age by guys who had been in gunfights that the first thing that goes out the window is the time to get to the sights and the whole concept of standing in a Weaver or Isosceles and getting that perfect "control yer breathing and squeeeeeze the trigger" bladed stance we use in target shooting. Apparently when you are actually about to be gunned down in yer tracks all that shit flies right out the window and you end up standing with wide eyes staring at your opponent and pulling the trigger over and over again while looking desperately at the aggressor.

Having been told that by half a dozen long dead law enforcers who have been shot and actually shot others I never, ever, stand in a stance and "target shoot" unless I'm sighting in a new gun or playing "marksman". I carry and maintain skills as a martial artist who prefers handguns for self defense and I Point Shot/Indexed/Threat Focused and all that for over 40 years. While training for my CCL which included a proficiency test here in Illinois I was chewed shitless by my instructor for "not using the sights" and lectured repeatedly that if anyone at the local range caught me not using the sights they'd likely suspend me. It's dangerous! You can't shoot a gun without acquiring a sight pix unless you are <6' from the target...shooting without sight acquisition is just plain dangerous. So for almost a year I have left Point Shooting aside, got my CCL using sights, and now have returned to Point Shooting. I did have the highest proficiency score in my class of 20 and while I raised the gun to eye level with 2 hands I never once looked at the sights. At 21'? Are you kidding me?

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I am terrified that if I stand and slow fire with perfect sight pix and smooth trigger squeeze I'll revert to that in a real fight and get killed. I learned long ago that a human can point at an object while looking at it and his index finger at 7' - 30' is millimeters from exactly what he is looking/pointing at. Point Shooting is inherent in a human hand/eye coordination and every bit as accurate as sighted shooting....it *is* sighted shooting. Look exactly at what you want to hit, see yer finger pointing in yer Minds Eye, pull the trigger. The bullet goes exactly where yer finger pointed. Even when you are panicked and even when you are moving (running) to cover. My Point Shooting standard is 3X rounds per second into a 4" circle at 21'. I can out shoot myself by using fancy sights and slow fire perfect stance and trigger squeeze but the groups end up with all the rounds touching and this is unnecessary in a gunfight. In the target above all the rounds can be covered with a palm...my palm is 4" across and a normal human not much different. Put yer hand over yer forehead...I can hit that 3X per second while moving laterally and never looking at the gun. You can too.

By the way that's a 1918 built Colt 1903 Pocket Hammerless I inherited from the guy who inspired me to Point Shoot. I still can't see the sights even if I look for them. I have more Point Shooting stories but have been "called out" and literally run off of gun boards by folks who are intimidated and can't deal with Point Shooting....they call it "Threat Focused" or "Indexing" or whatever but miss the point that a human, when his Life is threatened, is not likely to go to his sights and if he does he is slowed down and distracted/unable to follow the aggressor. This is way more critical than one might think - you can't go for your sights unless the aggressor is more than 30' from you unless you wanna get gunned down. There is no time. If attacked *move* at the instant and look at the threat and engage by pointing yer finger and pulling the trigger until the threat is down. Attempting to get the gun into a two handed, bladed, sight picture slow trigger squeeze and you'll have 3 or 4 in yer chest. That's just how it works in combat apparently.

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Re: Point Shooting

55
I'm trying to point shoot at 50 yards. At 21 feet, I can shoot with my eyes closed after being spun around ten times - I can do it with rocks or a softball, even. Hell, Randy down the hall can do it with a tied fly that weighs 5 grains. I hit a 4 inch spinner a few times at 50 yards last weekend. A few times out of 100 shots (okay, 99. It's an H&R revolver). I'll be happy when I get to 3 out of 10.

Re: Point Shooting

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I started on the 1903 but now only keep carry guns that I can draw and shoot 3X from hip, half hip, or full extension without acquiring sights. Some guns simply do not shoot to point of look and I do not know why. But the rule is that if I look at it and it is within 30' I should be able to pound it with 3X per second and keep the rounds within a 4" circle. If I can't the gun gets moved along. Vry few guns could not do this one being a Ruger LCR in .38. It just did not shoot where I looked or where I aimed. I have a Dan Wesson 15-2VH in .357 that can hammer anything I look at from the hip. It's not a matter of barrel length - more a matter of grip/angle and fit.

I have taught others but the hardest thing is to get them to let go of the sights and *look* at what they wanna hit and imagine pointing a finger at the exact spot. Look...open the eyes wide. Point and stare and pull the trigger. You have to give up on using the sights first...then when one realizes it is natural and easy one can start moving while shooting and looking at the target instead of at the gun. Doesn't usually take long once they give up acquiring the sights.

VooDoo
Tyrants disarm the people they intend to oppress.

I am sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Re: Point Shooting

58
My ongoing problem is that it takes me considerable effort to stop swinging the gun to the left to accommodate my cross dominance. I expect that point shooting is easier for a right-handed shooter because he is not starting out with a "muscle memory" that's "wrong". Hence my reliance on Jordan's technique of jamming my elbow into my side.

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