Dallas Fort Worth- Keller ISD school board votes to allow teachers and school employees to carry guns 50 hrs training.

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KELLER, Texas (CBSDFW.COM) – A North Texas school district has decided to move forward with a controversial school security idea despite protests.

Keller ISD has voted to change its policy so teachers and other school employees could be authorized to carry weapons. This will be the largest school district in North Texas to implement a guardian program.

Proponents say it could offer two to three minutes of armed response before police arrive. Opponents say a district survey found that teachers overwhelmingly don't want the responsibility.
Teachers, administrators, cafeteria workers, even janitors who undergo 50 hours of training could allowed to carry loaded guns with them to school campuses.

There were voices coming from both sides about whether it's a good idea.
Diane Ossenkop is a former Keller subsidiary teacher who says a school shooter with an assault rifle won't be stopped by someone like her with a handgun.

"We need you to do more research than just the guardian program," Ossenkop said.

Opponents point out that teachers in Keller currently aren't allowed to even break up a student fight yet could soon be allowed to carry firearms.

The decision gives the superintendent authorization to create a training program and implement it without further board action.
Full Article : https://www.cbsnews.com/dfw/news/kelle ... ers-armed/

At the same board meeting we have this.
Texas school board that banned Anne Frank's Diary invites Messianic 'rabbi' accused of sex crimes to give prayer

A Texas school board that removed an illustrated adaptation of Anne Frank's diary invited a Messianic "rabbi" accused of sexual assault to open a meeting with a prayer.

The Keller Independent School District earlier this year ordered its libraries to remove all copies of a 2018 graphic novel adaptation of "The Diary of a Young Girl," written by the teenage Frank while in hiding with her parents before they were sent to a Nazi concentration camp, and on Monday introduced a prayer leader as "Rabbi Griffin," reported the Jewish Telegraphic Agency.

“Last night we were shocked but excited when we saw a man who said he was a rabbi come up to pray,” said parent Laney Hawes, a frequent critic of the board's decisions. “We then realized why the school board was letting [Griffin] pray, because he was praying to Jesus.”

But a "quick Google search" revealed the "rabbi" was Mark Aaron Griffin, who leads a congregation in nearby Saginaw that blends Christian beliefs and Jewish practices, and is currently awaiting trial on four counts of sexual assault.
https://www.rawstory.com/sar-shalom-synagogue/

Twenty years ago we pulled our son out of the Keller ISD and had him home schooled, after he was assaulted by some other students at the school and was arrested for making a threat to them, after they beat him up. The other students were just sent to detention.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

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Gee, outta texass, again.
Proponents say it could offer two to three minutes of armed response before police arrive. Opponents say a district survey found that teachers overwhelmingly don't want the responsibility.
Righto..jim the music teacher(altho probably not. 'Music, along with other 'arts' programs is frowned upon by texass GOPathetic) or Suzy the English teacher is gonna whip that HG out and start blasting away at the guy who enters their class with a rifle.
Now, the 2A crowd will say it's a 'deterrent'.....BS..those school shooters don't care about that.

Can't wait until some kid gets ahold of a teacher's gun...texass...gads.

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I don't have a problem as long as state law allows it and teachers and other staff meet the legal requirements. School shootings are rare, but both political parties have hyped it up among voters with the help of the media and each party lobbies for their remedy to become law.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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F4FEver wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:16 am Gee, outta texass, again...
So, what is your solution?

I mean, seriously, you just posted you don't think a teacher should be armed with a handgun when a school shooter enters the classroom with an AR.

In that specific instance the teacher has the tactical advantage. They focus on the doorway and shoot at the school shooter as he comes in. The shooter has to open the door, enter, and locate the threat. Huge advantage goes to the teacher. BTW, most "school shootings" are still done with a handgun.

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sikacz wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 1:05 pm I don’t have a problem with this either. At least they require some training.


Kinda depends..my 'training' at the hands of a NRA instructor(oooo), was a waste of 3 hours. It got me the certificate so I could get my CCWP, not a complete waste($90) but it was a joke. More info about the 2018 midterms, how to join the NRA and a pitch for Carry insurance than any real information...

Texass training...righto...probably lots of info about anti-LGBTQ info, anti-CRT info and getting out the GOPathetic vote in 2024...Maybe they can hire one of the cowards at Uvalde to give the training.....

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BKinzey wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:51 am
F4FEver wrote: Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:16 am Gee, outta texass, again...
So, what is your solution?

I mean, seriously, you just posted you don't think a teacher should be armed with a handgun when a school shooter enters the classroom with an AR.

In that specific instance the teacher has the tactical advantage. They focus on the doorway and shoot at the school shooter as he comes in. The shooter has to open the door, enter, and locate the threat. Huge advantage goes to the teacher. BTW, most "school shootings" are still done with a handgun.
I have no solution but arming teachers or making schools fortifications acknowledges that there are a LOT of weird, angry, mentally unstable people out there with a lot of(legally obtained) guns..

"The teacher has the tactical advantage"...No she or he doesn't unless the gun is sitting on their desk or is in their hand. It won't be..It'll be secured inside the classroom.

That is absurd. In the chaos of a school shooting, the first thing that will happen is the doors of the classrooms get locked. And HOW will the teacher know that person that comes thru the door is the 'shooter?? You paint these teachers as tactically sound, TV-esque, armed protectors...'shooter has to locate the threat'..they come in and start shooting...kids...They aren't any more 'tactically sound' than the teacher.

How about a better, more comprehensive BGC, not just a rubber stamp. How about using RedFlagLaws that exist. Not wring one's hands after the shooter is discovered to be completely violent, and owns a bunch of legal guns. Like the latest Club Q shooter. Or the Denver tattoo parlor shooter..or the Boulder King Soopers shooter, or the..........Or how about LEO NOT ignoting this because they don't 'agree' with it like the ElPaso county sheriff.

NOT about the gun, but about the shooter and easy access.

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Emotions run high on this issue because the stakes are so high. I live in central WV, where the population has dropped like a rock. I always think it's just a matter of time before we start seeing these kinds of shootings here. I have no idea what might work or what may make things worse. It's kind of like abortion in that each side has valid, morally justifiable positions. Deploying firearms is a major decision with many variables which need tight control for safety and security. The legal liability alone scares the hell out of me.

When police respond, what do they bring with them? Calling on cops is calling on guns. I think that the sooner a realistic response to an armed assault can be mounted, the sooner it would end, but I have been wrong on more than one occasion.

When I was a kid, there was this childlike dream of a perfect world. As a man entering old age, I either can't or won't remember my dreams anymore. Perhaps like the little doll on Rudolph who can't cry anymore cause all her tears have dried up, my dreams have evaporated as well.

Keeping my fingers crossed is playing havoc with my trigger.
Getting old, or is it just me?

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Mixed emotions on this. There are so many ways this could go south or to the good. Personally, I believe there is more chance for catastrophe than good. Just too much human nature to make a bad situation worse.
"Being Republican is more than a difference of opinion - it's a character flaw." "COVID can fix STUPID!"
The greatest, most aggrieved mistake EVER made in USA was electing DJT as POTUS.

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I frankly don't have a problem with a teacher with a carry permit carrying I'm the classroom. Responsible law abiding people are carrying every day around kids.

I'm not convinced a policy aimed at arming teachers is a great idea, primarily because being an "operator" just shouldn't be in a teacher's job description on her conscious. That's a mighty big ask.

No easy answers but I still suspect we'd be better off following root cause mitigation as preventative.

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When my wife was Dean at the local Community College, she was involved with the training of faculty in the case of a shooter on campus. The chief of police for the college district told her that anybody not identified as a LEO and with a gun displayed will be looked upon as being the suspect shooter. I can see that as being an issue with armed teachers or other school employees.

The college also has a high school on the same campus. It got involved as to who can carry on campus under the laws as they were changing.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

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TrueTexan wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:05 pm When my wife was Dean at the local Community College, she was involved with the training of faculty in the case of a shooter on campus. The chief of police for the college district told her that anybody not identified as a LEO and with a gun displayed will be looked upon as being the suspect shooter. I can see that as being an issue with armed teachers or other school employees.

The college also has a high school on the same campus. It got involved as to who can carry on campus under the laws as they were changing.
In that case might just need a police officer in each classroom. Having to arm anyone is not ideal. Then again when an armed assailant is forcing their way into a classroom, I’d say it’s gone pretty far south already and not many good options left. Even less options if there’s no one in the classroom with a gun to respond. Root causes are the way to address issues, but they won’t stop someone intent on harming others. Here’s the two options for schools, accept that a very small number of students will be killed or allow qualified teachers to defend themselves and their students and hopefully have fewer casualties. Either way deaths will still occur.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

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IIRC in some states the training for teachers is done in conjunction with law enforcement, so by the end of 50 hours they should be known to cops. Give the teachers vests or identify them in some other way, so they don't get shot by responding LEOs. Plain clothes cops have the same problem when they respond to emergencies where they aren't known. And practice, practice, practice and maybe they can become as accurate as Eli Dicken.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/19/us/eli-d ... index.html
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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I'm a retired teacher in California. If the TX teachers are going to carry, fifty hours is way more formal training than I have had. I'm going to support that position. What we have not yet read about is all the shooting clubs that will spring up composed of teachers keeping their skills sharp. We'll see that, won't we? I hope so. Hope is a strategy, was last out of Pandora's box, and will be the last to die. My guess is she carries.

CDFingers
Crazy cat peekin' through a lace bandana
like a one-eyed Cheshire, like a diamond-eyed Jack

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sikacz wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 2:12 pm
TrueTexan wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:05 pm When my wife was Dean at the local Community College, she was involved with the training of faculty in the case of a shooter on campus. The chief of police for the college district told her that anybody not identified as a LEO and with a gun displayed will be looked upon as being the suspect shooter. I can see that as being an issue with armed teachers or other school employees.

The college also has a high school on the same campus. It got involved as to who can carry on campus under the laws as they were changing.
In that case might just need a police officer in each classroom. Having to arm anyone is not ideal. Then again when an armed assailant is forcing their way into a classroom, I’d say it’s gone pretty far south already and not many good options left. Even less options if there’s no one in the classroom with a gun to respond. Root causes are the way to address issues, but they won’t stop someone intent on harming others. Here’s the two options for schools, accept that a very small number of students will be killed or allow qualified teachers to defend themselves and their students and hopefully have fewer casualties. Either way deaths will still occur.
That's pretty depressing. Again, it acknowledges there are a lot of very dangerous, deranged, violent people out there that want to shoot up schools. Ypu mention root cause mitigation all the time..For the thousands of guns already in these people's hands, what to do about that? Fortifying schools, arming teachers....the NRA is giddy, 'the only solution to a bad guy with a gun is a 'good' guy with a gun'. Tons and tons of guns out there..the answer, more guns...depressing.

And yes, I carry everyday, all day, every place where it's legal..like the fat beanbag cop on Taufladermaus, with a t-shift that said, "nobody is coming to help you". on a cop's shirt..no kidding....

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I have no real problem with allowing teachers and staff to be armed in schools, provided they have some ability/proficiency. My thinking is that most school staff that choose to be armed in school will take it seriously enough to become proficient. We are not talking about forcing people to carry if they don't want to, so this notion of the meek, bumbling art teacher is a straw man in this case.
Hardening of targets is an important stopgap while our society struggles with the scourge or mass shootings and their endless copycat perpetrators spurred on by incessant media coverage.

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Anytime anywhere your carrying a gun and a cop sees it whether or not your involved in an active shooter incident your going to be suspect and/or probably shot first asked questions later. So be prepared to drop your weapon when cops show up. I'd hope they teach that to teachers.
So I have no problem with it.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing,”

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tonguengroover wrote: Sat Dec 17, 2022 9:57 am Anytime anywhere your carrying a gun and a cop sees it whether or not your involved in an active shooter incident your going to be suspect and/or probably shot first asked questions later. So be prepared to drop your weapon when cops show up. I'd hope they teach that to teachers.
So I have no problem with it.
Because you have cops like this. https://www.texastribune.org/2022/12/15 ... jefferson/
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

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Guy in Denver, armed citizen, shot a 'bad guy' who had shot a cop...picked up the AR, and was shot by police...

And bumbling and meek new gun owners? Of the estimated 7-8 MILLION new gun owners these last 2 years..al least some sure aren't 'trained and proficient'.
I go to a couple of indoor ranges...at least half the time I see somebody who isn't exactly proficient or acts just plain dumb...range ninjas...
'
50 hours of training'..who will pay for that? How about the person's firearms..will the 'state' pay for those?
School shootings are like big aircraft crashing...Rare but makes the 'news'....

Easy access by people, who in hindsight, 'shouldn't have been able to buy a gun'...5 in just Colorado...latest is Club Q shooter .....

For right above..cops killing unarmed, innocent civilians deserves a thread all of it's won.

"Comply or die".....
https://www.cpr.org/2022/09/13/clear-cr ... -shooting/

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I can imagine a cop going out the door for work, a kiss from the spouse and kids goodbye, and a request to come home alive. I'd be paranoid too. Humans have visceral and emotional responses under stress. In nature, there may not be such a thing as an over the top response when it comes to self survival. Society places limits that may not always be humanly doable under duress. Assholes are everywhere. It's hard to have to live with and work for them.

I don't mean to excuse bad behavior. Some of the above posts suggest that arming teachers is asking more of them than we should. Everyone has a breaking point. If you step in enough shit, you may even look at your beloved dog a little differently. I get the NY Times on my phone, so “paper” training is just too expensive.
Getting old, or is it just me?

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Keep in mind the idea is to allow those teachers that have qualified and want to take the fifty hour additional training. It’s not being forced it’s voluntary. It’s not asking anything extra, it’s giving a teacher a choice. A teacher that goes to work hoping they and their students can return home safely. This is not about the safety of police officers. Police will have to deal with this the same way as they deal with plain clothes police officers. I’m pretty sure protocols can be setup and if a teacher has to use their gun it will be holstered and hidden by the time police arrive and there will be a body in the classroom doorway with a gun near or on it. It’s not rocket science. Let’s just keep this simple for now. It’s not going to be perfect, but it’s better than no resistance at all. If I was a teacher I’d take that choice.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

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sikacz wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:50 am Keep in mind the idea is to allow those teachers that have qualified and want to take the fifty hour additional training. It’s not being forced it’s voluntary. It’s not asking anything extra, it’s giving a teacher a choice. A teacher that goes to work hoping they and their students can return home safely. This is not about the safety of police officers. Police will have to deal with this the same way as they deal with plain clothes police officers. I’m pretty sure protocols can be setup and if a teacher has to use their gun it will be holstered and hidden by the time police arrive and there will be a body in the classroom doorway with a gun near or on it. It’s not rocket science. Let’s just keep this simple for now. It’s not going to be perfect, but it’s better than no resistance at all. If I was a teacher I’d take that choice.

I agree, I'd apply and take the 50 hours training if I was a teacher.

23 years after Columbine US law enforcement still hasn't learned the primary lesson from that tragedy, don't wait for SWAT. Uvalde is the most recent example and that was a failure by school police, city police, county sheriff and state troopers. Those agencies touted how many hours of active shooter training they had, but it was money pissed down the toilet. They weren't prepared to put their lives on the line to protect children and teachers, I think teachers would have a greater interest in protecting their students and other staff.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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sikacz wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2022 9:50 am Keep in mind the idea is to allow those teachers that have qualified and want to take the fifty hour additional training. It’s not being forced it’s voluntary. It’s not asking anything extra, it’s giving a teacher a choice. A teacher that goes to work hoping they and their students can return home safely. This is not about the safety of police officers. Police will have to deal with this the same way as they deal with plain clothes police officers. I’m pretty sure protocols can be setup and if a teacher has to use their gun it will be holstered and hidden by the time police arrive and there will be a body in the classroom doorway with a gun near or on it. It’s not rocket science. Let’s just keep this simple for now. It’s not going to be perfect, but it’s better than no resistance at all. If I was a teacher I’d take that choice.
Very TV-esque..Guy with rifle barges into a classroom during Math and teacher pulls out his/her firearm and dispatches the 'bad guy'...It is WAY more complicated that 'rocket science' when looking the the nuts and bolts of ANY of the recent or not so recent school shootings.

'Qualified and taken that additional 50 hr training'. Looks good on paper, but many, many concealed carriers right now are neither trained nor proficient, even tho 'training' in a lot of states, is mandatory. PLUS, isn't going to be cheap...

I'd like to think I'm pretty well trained and proficient with my firearms. I carry everyday, all day...so, If I was a teacher, I would opt to carry also, just like I do now. But the proposed 'program' is so full of holes....false sense of security and political points sought major ones.

I think a well trained, motivated crew of "resource officers" in a well designed school, with limited and controlled access would be more effective and far cheaper.

If I were younger and if a school like my grand daughter's elementary school wanted such a thing, I'd even volunteer for it.

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