Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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sikacz wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 8:12 am Don’t bet on the next ban or other bans coming sequentially after to have a grandfathering component. That was a mistake the ban crew will address.
absolutely. Rathjen and Provost (the unelected antigun extremists who have Trudeau's ear) immediately denounced this ban as "not going far enough" and vocally opposed grandfathering "because subsequent governments could reverse the ban". And then suddenly all references to grandfathering this ban were redacted from all government statements. It will be a mandatory confiscation.

Good luck with that. 80% of the guns on the list didn't require registration. The government doesn't know how many there are or where they are located. My bet is there will be a lot of post-holes being dug in Alberta and Saskatchewan right around April 2022.

Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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we have a similar problem here with executive authority creeping into the legislative realm via executive order. the executives job is to see to it that the laws are executed, not to make new laws. the legislature (yours AND ours) needs to wake up and reel it in before they find themselves redundant. this is how republics become autocracy, never mind that aspiring emperors find themselves assassinated now and then.
i'm retired. what's your excuse?

Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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lurker wrote: Wed Jun 24, 2020 12:38 pm we have a similar problem here with executive authority creeping into the legislative realm via executive order. the executives job is to see to it that the laws are executed, not to make new laws. the legislature (yours AND ours) needs to wake up and reel it in before they find themselves redundant. this is how republics become autocracy, never mind that aspiring emperors find themselves assassinated now and then.
Yes. Not to get too pedantic but Orders in Council are only meant to be used in two circumstances:

1) in case of emergency, say deploying the military to fight forest fires. The OiC can be used because it bypasses debate and therefore is expedient. But then when that emergency ends, the Order must be repealed.

2) to accomplish administrative details not worth debate in the House (like, for example, appointing a chair to some uninteresting committee)

Using an OiC in the manner Trudeau used it is a very clear abuse of parliamentary privilege. It is being contested and likely will be ruled null (but that will take years). One other factor is that an OiC must be signed by the Governor in Council (GiC), and there is a law on the books very specifically preventing the GiC from changing the categories of firearms which have a recognized sporting or hunting use. As literally every gun on the new ban list was imported or manufactured here for sporting or hunting purposes (and recognized as such by the government) the OiC is likely null and void.

Not sure how closely you guys follow Canadian politics, but even though Trudeau's party is called the "Liberal Party", they're more of a centre-right party. They virtue signal on things like minority rights and environment, but they're all about big business, ties with brutal regimes (like China and Saudi Arabia), and (obviously) anti-gun and anti-free speech (except speech with which they agree). I call them the LINO party (Liberal In Name Only).

Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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harriss wrote: Fri May 01, 2020 6:57 pm Canada isn't the US. In the US mandatory buy backs are unenforceable. In order to make them enforceable law enforcement would have to conduct warrant less dragnet searches. Such things are unconstitutional.
The rub is is that if you decided to hang onto a banned weapon, you are risking your freedom for a piece that you could never take out and shoot without fear of being caught. If it became law I would toss mine on the back of the truck and put out my hand for my check, because I have lived my life as a law abiding citizen and it is too late to turn back now.

Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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lurker wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:37 pm i'm not worried about an "assault weapon" per se. judicious application of a scoped bolt gun will get you another "assault weapon" when the time comes.
Without a functional gas system an AR would easily be just a bolt action rifle.

But, that’s not the point for me anyway, since after outlawing one function it’s easy to justify outlawing another.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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sikacz wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:48 pm after outlawing one function it’s easy to justify outlawing another.
oh, i agree. :love: the slippery slope looks very real to me and they've made it clear that total disarmament is some of these folks' intermediate goal toward total subjugation. i'm the "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" guy, even though i sometimes decline to engage in pointless argument over minutia.
i'm retired. what's your excuse?

Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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lurker wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:58 pm
sikacz wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:48 pm after outlawing one function it’s easy to justify outlawing another.
oh, i agree. :love: the slippery slope looks very real to me and they've made it clear that total disarmament is some of these folks' intermediate goal toward total subjugation. i'm the "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" guy, even though i sometimes decline to engage in pointless argument over minutia.
I’m arguing to make up for times I was missing in action in the past year...LoL..
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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damnitman wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:05 pm...
The rub is is that if you decided to hang onto a banned weapon, you are risking your freedom for a piece that you could never take out and shoot without fear of being caught....
There's much discussion about that in the Canadian forums.

Of the firearms on the new prohib list, only the AR category and one or two others (with barrels shorter than 18.6") were previously "restricted" (meaning they are on a central registry). the remaining ones - approximately 80% of the guns named in the order - were previously "non-restricted", meaning they never required registration and no notification is required to buy/sell/transfer them between private parties.

In other words, the government has no idea who specifically owns them, where they are, or even how many there are.

The consensus among affected gun owners is to simply not admit they have them, and just wait until the next conservative government takes power, as they have promised to reverse this order if judicial measures fail. Yes, leaving your Mini-14 or your Storm in your safe (or buried under the shed) for maybe years sucks, but not as much as surrendering it for pennies on the dollar knowing you will never get it back. The registered ones? Yeah, kiss those goodbye. The unregistered ones? What unregistered ones?

The reason "grandfathering" suddenly disappeared from any press releases is because thew antigun coalition has already complained that these measures don't go far enough, and that subsequent governments may reverse the ban. They have the ear of our moron Prime Minister, but not with most elected officials as a whole. Once he's gone back to teaching drama in blackface and groping ski-bunnies, they cease to be anywhere as influential as they are now.

There's also the reality that the RCMP - who enforce firearms laws - are woefully incompetent. As someone who had to assist RCMP members confiscate guns as evidence (when I was an MP), my personal feeling is they will never actually get around to enforcing this en masse. They simply don't have the resources (and in some cases, the intelligence). And, as many of those Mounties are personally affected by the ban themselves, I don't sense they will be prioritizing this enforcement on their "to do" lists. One of my Mountie friends is a high-level 3-gun guy. He told me he has $40k worth of suddenly-prohibited guns and parts in his safe. He's in no hurry to enforce this, and he's not alone.

Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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CanuckAmok wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:50 pm
damnitman wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:05 pm...
The rub is is that if you decided to hang onto a banned weapon, you are risking your freedom for a piece that you could never take out and shoot without fear of being caught....
There's much discussion about that in the Canadian forums.

Of the firearms on the new prohib list, only the AR category and one or two others (with barrels shorter than 18.6") were previously "restricted" (meaning they are on a central registry). the remaining ones - approximately 80% of the guns named in the order - were previously "non-restricted", meaning they never required registration and no notification is required to buy/sell/transfer them between private parties.

In other words, the government has no idea who specifically owns them, where they are, or even how many there are.

The consensus among affected gun owners is to simply not admit they have them, and just wait until the next conservative government takes power, as they have promised to reverse this order if judicial measures fail. Yes, leaving your Mini-14 or your Storm in your safe (or buried under the shed) for maybe years sucks, but not as much as surrendering it for pennies on the dollar knowing you will never get it back. The registered ones? Yeah, kiss those goodbye. The unregistered ones? What unregistered ones?

The reason "grandfathering" suddenly disappeared from any press releases is because thew antigun coalition has already complained that these measures don't go far enough, and that subsequent governments may reverse the ban. They have the ear of our moron Prime Minister, but not with most elected officials as a whole. Once he's gone back to teaching drama in blackface and groping ski-bunnies, they cease to be anywhere as influential as they are now.

There's also the reality that the RCMP - who enforce firearms laws - are woefully incompetent. As someone who had to assist RCMP members confiscate guns as evidence (when I was an MP), my personal feeling is they will never actually get around to enforcing this en masse. They simply don't have the resources (and in some cases, the intelligence). And, as many of those Mounties are personally affected by the ban themselves, I don't sense they will be prioritizing this enforcement on their "to do" lists. One of my Mountie friends is a high-level 3-gun guy. He told me he has $40k worth of suddenly-prohibited guns and parts in his safe. He's in no hurry to enforce this, and he's not alone.
Interesting about your friend. It gets messy. Here, I like the idea that unregistered means no formal government knowledge. They can suspect all they want. If I had something that got banned, I would not volunteer the information. Boating with guns is popular as is selling them. I doubt retroactively requiring sales receipts is going to work out.

In Canada, waiting it out is a logical step if there is no formal registration of a weapon.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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Oh, and I personally have two (registered) ARs. If the ban survives, I'll lose them. I can't even export them to friends in the US because of some US State Department rule.

But I'm still not easily surrendering them. I'll just ignore the multiple letters ordering me to deliver them to some collection point. If they want them they'll have to come and get them here, where they'll find each one set in a five gallon bucket of cement. Because that's the kind of guy I am. Petty. :)

Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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lurker wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:58 pm
sikacz wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:17 pm
lurker wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 1:04 pm here, look at these.
LUGO1890.JPGLUGO1892.JPGLUGO1894.JPG
:love: Nice, you do know my weakness..LoL...
there are 4 felines, did you find them all?
One each top and bottom, two in the middle. I enjoyed your cat walk pics on FB. I try to briefly look at FB, but I’m there about two times a week now since I stopped using my phone for FB.
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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CanuckAmok wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:03 pm Oh, and I personally have two (registered) ARs. If the ban survives, I'll lose them. I can't even export them to friends in the US because of some US State Department rule.

But I'm still not easily surrendering them. I'll just ignore the multiple letters ordering me to deliver them to some collection point. If they want them they'll have to come and get them here, where they'll find each one set in a five gallon bucket of cement. Because that's the kind of guy I am. Petty. :)
I though you were going to move with them or is it not possible to take, Arizona was it?
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"Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated!" Loquacious of many. Texas Chapter Chief Cat Herder.

Re: Canada announces immediate ban on 'military-grade' assault weapons

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sikacz wrote: Thu Jul 02, 2020 2:01 pm.
In Canada, waiting it out is a logical step if there is no formal registration of a weapon.
Yeah it'll be interesting. This ban was modeled on the NZ buyback. New Zealand is calling it a success, but in reality only 18-20% of the banned guns have been surrendered, and that's in a system where 80% (as opposed to Canada's 20%) required registration. I think if the Canadian ban goes ahead, they'll be lucky to have 10% surrendered, and that will be far more expensive than the current projection of 100% compliance at $250m. Probably like more than a billion, with most guns never been surrendered.

Worth mentioning at this point, but we're broke. This government's pre-covid deficit was expected to be $20B a year for 2020-2024 (which was already more than we could afford). They've already spent $50B in the first six months of this year. The current debt is $680 billion, and economists are predicting close to a trillion by the end of the year. There's no money for a buyback, which will result in even lower compliance (especially if enforcement budgets are also slashed).

If you're ever around Canadian gun owners and any of them references "Mike from Canmore", it's an in-joke. Mike is this guy everybody loans guns do. He's a really clumsy guy in Alberta who likes to go boating.

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