St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

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Entitled. That's the word for them.

Prolly can't be changed unless they want to change it.

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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

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wings wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:59 pm
Marlene wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:35 pm
They are very fortunate for the restraint of the protesters they are threatening.
Also this. If any one of those protesters was carrying, I believe that they'd have a clear case for self defense given the brandishing and poor muzzle control displayed here.
This is not true. Your rights to legal self defense vanish when you commit a crime (at least in TX and I'm guaranteeing the same is true for MO). Each protestor is liable for the damage to property, and each protestor was committing first degree MO trespass.
Last edited by TEXGunny on Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

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:blink: karens, male and female. with guns.

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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

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It is the inevitable meme.

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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

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lurker wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:21 pm
:blink: karens, male and female. with guns.
I believe they are calling male versions of Karens, Darrens.

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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

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ARC1107 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:00 pm
lurker wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:21 pm
:blink: karens, male and female. with guns.
I believe they are calling male versions of Karens, Darrens.
thanks, i'll try to remember. i was uncertain that they actually had genders.
i see he appears to be left-handed?

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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

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shinzen wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:49 pm
Legal or not, they have certainly proven they are dumb as shit.
Yup, they're reported to be personal injury lawyers with their own law firm. I expect someone will complain about them to the MO state bar. Personal injury law in STL looks lucrative.
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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

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lurker wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:06 pm
ARC1107 wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:00 pm
lurker wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:21 pm
:blink: karens, male and female. with guns.
I believe they are calling male versions of Karens, Darrens.
thanks, i'll try to remember. i was uncertain that they actually had genders.
i see he appears to be left-handed?
I am just taking a guess, been spending a lot of time watching Karen freak out videos on youtube and usually hear males being called Darrens. :geek: :geek: :ugeek: :ugeek:

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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

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I see the constitutional scholars are still with us.


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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

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Rickoshay wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:02 pm
I see the constitutional scholars are still with us.
it's a dirty job, but someone has to keep those justices on their toes! ;)

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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

Post by CasualObserver »

So I read that Missouri castle doctrine begins at the edge of the property, and they could have shot somebody that entered their yard, and used that defense. Obviously they said they feared for their lives so as to check that box.

"Anders Walker, a constitutional law professor at St. Louis University, said Monday that it was 'very dangerous' for the McCloskeys to engage with protesters by brandishing guns, but Missouri’s Castle Doctrine allows them to defend their property on Portland Place, a private street.

'At any point that you enter the property, they can then, in Missouri, use deadly force to get you off the lawn,' Walker said, calling the state’s Castle Doctrine a 'force field' that 'indemnifies you, and you can even pull the trigger in Missouri.'”

I've also read that there are conflicting reports about breaking the gate. Not sure if a jury would want to believe all those self-defense arguments and instead vote guilty on some kind charge. Why didn't they stay inside the house? They felt the need to protect the landscaping? I thought a lawyer was trained to talk to a group of strangers and change their minds. But imagine if they had instead engaged the protesters in some meaningful way, or like maybe even brought out lemonade and cookies? Instead it's, Honey, grab your gun, we're going outside. People have guns and are brandishing them at peaceful, albeit angry, mobs, without really suffering an immediate threat, or perhaps after starting the escalation themselves. She was ready to shoot that pistol? Really? He was ready to shoot that rifle into a crowd? There are dangerous gun owners like there are awful drivers. And the pièce de résistance is this. Their lawyer:

“My clients, as melanin-deficient human beings, are completely respectful of the message Black Lives Matter needs to get out, especially to whites,” said lawyer Albert Watkins. He said the McCloskeys “acted lawfully” out of “fear and apprehension, the genesis of which was not race-related.”

My melanin deficient clients? Really?

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... 28585.html

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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

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CasualObserver wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:00 am
“My clients, as melanin-deficient human beings, are completely respectful of the message Black Lives Matter needs to get out, especially to whites,” said lawyer Albert Watkins. He said the McCloskeys “acted lawfully” out of “fear and apprehension, the genesis of which was not race-related.”

My melanin deficient clients? Really?

https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/cri ... 28585.html
A whole new line of defense to go with affluenza, melanin-deficiency. Looks to me like they could claim both.
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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

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lurker wrote:
Rickoshay wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:02 pm
I see the constitutional scholars are still with us.
it's a dirty job, but someone has to keep those justices on their toes! ;)
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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

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While Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground law allow property owners to defend their house, there is no legal precedent that allows them to use deadly force against trespassers for merely stepping on their lawn.

If deadly force is not legally allowed, neither is the threat of deadly force.

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/wi ... -doctrine/

But I’m not worried about these lawyers. While they are not necessarily familiar with criminal law, they know how the courts work. They know that they can make all sorts of absurd claims about threats from protesters, because it can never be proven otherwise. There is enough reasonable doubt to acquit them if charges were ever brought up, and they made sure of that by sharing their horror stories.
When the ignorant are united and the informed are divided, the result is an idiocracy.

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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

Post by sig230 »

Stiff wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:08 am
While Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground law allow property owners to defend their house, there is no legal precedent that allows them to use deadly force against trespassers for merely stepping on their lawn.

If deadly force is not legally allowed, neither is the threat of deadly force.

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/wi ... -doctrine/

But I’m not worried about these lawyers. While they are not necessarily familiar with criminal law, they know how the courts work. They know that they can make all sorts of absurd claims about threats from protesters, because it can never be proven otherwise. There is enough reasonable doubt to acquit them if charges were ever brought up, and they made sure of that by sharing their horror stories.
White Castle Doctrine, please.
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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

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sig230 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:39 am

White Castle Doctrine, please.
:roll:

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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

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sig230 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:39 am

White Castle Doctrine, please.
Eww, not great food.
D00340BC-C25D-42BD-8AFC-260ADCE50DAF.jpeg
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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

Post by CasualObserver »

Also, it seems to me that, actually using deadly force could be counter-productive to getting someone off your lawn, like, you know, after they're dead.

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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

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I have to say that when I first saw the pictures, I thought, "Boy, Barbie and Ken sure have let themselves go."
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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

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Stiff wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:55 am
sig230 wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 11:39 am

White Castle Doctrine, please.
Eww, not great food.

D00340BC-C25D-42BD-8AFC-260ADCE50DAF.jpeg
Who hasn't been around when somebody has said, let's go to White Castle, and it SEEMED like a good idea at the time... and then afterwards you remember why you hadn't been there in a long time.

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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

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Anyone else pissed that this guy has ruined salmon collared shirts for the rest of us? Oh, just me? Ok. Nevermind.

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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

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58Hawken wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:27 pm
Anyone else pissed that this guy has ruined salmon collared shirts for the rest of us? Oh, just me? Ok. Nevermind.
That is pink. Salmon is basically light orange.

Why do they call it salmon? Because “baboon butt” doesn’t sell.
Last edited by Stiff on Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

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Stiff wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:44 pm
58Hawken wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:27 pm
Anyone else pissed that this guy has ruined salmon collared shirts for the rest of us? Oh, just me? Ok. Nevermind.
That is pink. Salmon is basically light orange.
Great he ruined pink, too.

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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

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As demonstrators marched along his private street in St. Louis, Mark McCloskey and his wife emerged barefoot from their mansion, brandishing loaded weapons at the crowd in what many read as an act of intimidation. Video of the scene instantly went viral, at one point even being retweeted — and then deleted — by President Trump.

But in an interview with CNN’s Chris Cuomo on Tuesday night, McCloskey said he and his wife, Patricia, were in fact the ones being threatened. “I was a victim of a mob that came through the gate,” he said. “I didn’t care what color they were. I didn’t care what their motivation was. I was frightened, I was assaulted, and I was in imminent fear that they would run me over, kill me, burn my house.”

Protesters in the crowd of about 500 people, who passed by the McCloskeys’ residence on their way to St. Louis Mayor Lyda Krewson’s house nearby, have disputed accounts they were being violent or threatening. One organizer said marchers were merely conducting an act of civil disobedience, and there is no proof they physically harmed the McCloskeys or their house.
Since the confrontation Sunday, many have speculated as to why the protesters entered Portland Place and whether they broke down a locked iron gate to do so. The mayor’s house, which is located one block over, is accessible only from the private street through another locked gate.

A live stream of the demonstration appears to contradict claims that the protesters gained access to Portland Place by destroying the gate. In the video, marchers enter through a wrought iron barrier that is still intact.
On CNN, however, McCloskey said the demonstrators first had been intimidating him and his wife. The group was “screaming death threats,” he recounted, saying they would “burn my house and kill my dog and what rooms in my house they were going to live in after they killed me.”

He also cited two violent deaths in St. Louis as the source of his trepidation.

Just weeks earlier, David Dorn, a black retired police captain, was fatally shot outside a looted pawnshop amid nationwide protests following the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis on Memorial Day. In 1995, he said on CNN, [Mayor Lyda] Krewson’s husband was killed in her driveway during a carjacking attempt.

The St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department told The Post that officers had responded to a “Call for Help” at the couple’s address. The city’s circuit attorney is now investigating whether the couple broke any laws by waving their guns at the crowd.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... s-protest/
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Re: St. Louis homeowners point firearms at protesters

Post by shinzen »

“My clients, as melanin-deficient human beings, are completely respectful of the message Black Lives Matter needs to get out, especially to whites,” said lawyer Albert Watkins. He said the McCloskeys “acted lawfully” out of “fear and apprehension, the genesis of which was not race-related.”
Gods. Further proof that they are steaming piles of horseshit with their lawyer saying garbage like this.
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