Design of AR-15 Could Derail Charges Tied to Popular Rifle

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https://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2020/0 ... ethru.html
A subtle design feature of the AR-15 rifle has raised a technical legal question that is derailing cases against people who are charged with illegally buying and selling the gun's parts or building the weapon.

At issue is whether a key piece of one of America's most popular firearms meets the definition of a gun that prosecutors have long relied on.

For decades, the federal government has treated a mechanism called the lower receiver as the essential piece of the semiautomatic rifle, which has been used in some of the nation's deadliest mass shootings. Prosecutors regularly bring charges based on that specific part.

But some defense attorneys have recently argued that the part alone does not meet the definition in the law. Federal law enforcement officials, who have long been concerned about the discrepancy, are increasingly worried that it could hinder some criminal prosecutions and undermine firearms regulations nationwide.

....


Federal regulations define a firearm's “frame" or "receiver” as the piece considered to be the gun itself. But in an AR-15, the receiver is split into upper and lower parts — and some of the components listed in the definition are contained in the upper half. That has led judges to rule that a lower receiver alone cannot be considered a gun.

Re: Design of AR-15 Could Derail Charges Tied to Popular Rifle

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I must admit I don't get it, though I always obey the law.

If it cannot shoot, how can it be a firearm?

If your car can't drive, you don't have to register and insure it. Since a driver's licence is used as justification for registering gun owners and background checks, shouldn't the same logic about car parts and cars that cannot be driven be applied to firearm components?
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Design of AR-15 Could Derail Charges Tied to Popular Rifle

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This is where lawyers and engineers should have come together to suss things out before a fubar situation like this comes to pass. Or maybe where the law naturally matures over time to better match the reality of things in the ground. Industrial designs change and the law must change with the times.
"It is better to be violent, if there is violence in our hearts, than to put on the cloak of non-violence to cover impotence. There is hope for a violent man to become non-violent. There is no such hope for the impotent." -Gandhi

Re: Design of AR-15 Could Derail Charges Tied to Popular Rifle

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ultimately it's completely arbitrary. some part, any part has to be designated and assigned a #. happens to be the lower, could have just as easily been the upper or the bolt or the consumable barrel. stupid. someone is trying to weasel out of a weapons charge and has paid a lawyer to argue semantics (what lawyers do) in hopes of getting off, and now the rest of us will pay because they'll come up with some newer, more restrictive definition. the real solution is to send all the lawyers on a holiday cruise, on the titanic.
i'm retired. what's your excuse?

Re: Design of AR-15 Could Derail Charges Tied to Popular Rifle

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I don't know where these definitions are codified, or if they are codified. At most, the upper receiver will become serialized in place of or on top of the lower receiver serialization. The lower receiver is the single longest lasting piece of an AR-15. Also, it's where the components for it being made a machine gun would go. The amount of NFA nonsense that could happen if they started registering uppers would be absurd, especially considering how many uppers are compatible with older registered MG lowers.

If the ATF has control of definitions, this could be really bad in a hurry. If they have to get congress to change the law as to what constitutes a firearm, it delays any changes until there are significant changes in the makeup of congress.

Re: Design of AR-15 Could Derail Charges Tied to Popular Rifle

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BillMcD wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:32 am I don't know where these definitions are codified, or if they are codified. At most, the upper receiver will become serialized in place of or on top of the lower receiver serialization. The lower receiver is the single longest lasting piece of an AR-15. Also, it's where the components for it being made a machine gun would go. The amount of NFA nonsense that could happen if they started registering uppers would be absurd, especially considering how many uppers are compatible with older registered MG lowers.

If the ATF has control of definitions, this could be really bad in a hurry. If they have to get congress to change the law as to what constitutes a firearm, it delays any changes until there are significant changes in the makeup of congress.
Congress doesn't seem to be able to make real laws anymore. The ACA was a big law. The Iraq AUMF was a big law. Now every politician is held to account for votes on big changes that are actually signed into law. They gave the rule making to POTUS a long time ago. ATF, EPA, etc have a lot more power now.
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Re: Design of AR-15 Could Derail Charges Tied to Popular Rifle

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BillMcD wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:32 am I don't know where these definitions are codified, or if they are codified. At most, the upper receiver will become serialized in place of or on top of the lower receiver serialization. The lower receiver is the single longest lasting piece of an AR-15. Also, it's where the components for it being made a machine gun would go. The amount of NFA nonsense that could happen if they started registering uppers would be absurd, especially considering how many uppers are compatible with older registered MG lowers.

If the ATF has control of definitions, this could be really bad in a hurry. If they have to get congress to change the law as to what constitutes a firearm, it delays any changes until there are significant changes in the makeup of congress.
Not sure exactly where this is spelled out but a good place to start is wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law_i ... ted_States

Also

https://www.loc.gov/

Re: Design of AR-15 Could Derail Charges Tied to Popular Rifle

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K9s wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:20 am Congress doesn't seem to be able to make real laws anymore. The ACA was a big law. The Iraq AUMF was a big law. Now every politician is held to account for votes on big changes that are actually signed into law. They gave the rule making to POTUS a long time ago. ATF, EPA, etc have a lot more power now.
When Moscow Mitch has blocked 400 bills from even being DEBATED in the Senate including 275 bi-partisan bills, it's clear that "Congress" not making laws comes down to one, and only one man: Moscow Mitch, who may well be THE most corrupt Senator since the Civil War. Because he's not simply taking bribes. He's corrupting the entire legislative and ratification process, and is PROUD of doing so!
"Even if the bee could explain to the fly why pollen is better than shit, the fly could never understand."

Re: Design of AR-15 Could Derail Charges Tied to Popular Rifle

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K9s wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:10 pm I sure would love to see him lose election (he won't) and have his millions confiscated as bribes. He is the wealthiest man in Kentucky, but they will probably still vote for the pasty oligarch.
In Kentucky his approval rating is running into negative numbers. But the powers to be in Kentucky probably already have the votes counted to insure his re-election.
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

Re: Design of AR-15 Could Derail Charges Tied to Popular Rifle

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TrueTexan wrote: Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:31 pm
K9s wrote: Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:10 pm I sure would love to see him lose election (he won't) and have his millions confiscated as bribes. He is the wealthiest man in Kentucky, but they will probably still vote for the pasty oligarch.
In Kentucky his approval rating is running into negative numbers. But the powers to be in Kentucky probably already have the votes counted to insure his re-election.
I assume a Dem governor makes that a little more expensive for McConnell, but he has his GOP Sec of State to count the votes.
It is an unfortunate human failing that a full pocketbook often groans more loudly than an empty stomach.

- Franklin D. Roosevelt

Re: Design of AR-15 Could Derail Charges Tied to Popular Rifle

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BKinzey wrote: Wed Jan 22, 2020 3:36 pm
carsonevans wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:41 pm
which has been used in some of the nation's deadliest mass shootings.
The AR was at wounded knee?
Quite true! The indians had one but nobody had a High Capacity mag for it so it was rendered completely useless. :shifty:
I thought it was because the Indians had used up all their ammo at the Little Bighorn. :whistle:
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored.-Huxley
"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both." ~ Louis Brandeis,

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