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Bullitt68
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Bullpups

#1 Post by Bullitt68 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:24 pm

Not sure why this keeps coming up in my google feed but I do love a bullpup. So much better control than an AR platform.

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Re: Bullpups

#2 Post by K9s » Sun Jan 12, 2020 11:11 pm

I have been obsessed with bullpups, but I don't have one and don't need one. The bullpup shotguns are interesting but I really want something more like a Tavor or AUG.
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Re: Bullpups

#3 Post by JohnNewell » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:49 am

I have an AUG. Trigger isn't quite as crisp as an AR (I also have an AR-10) and as a practical matter it's not worth 3x what an AR-15 costs, but I love it. It has proven to be very accurate for a weapon of it's type. It's clearly my go-to weapon if things get weird out here on the Miniranch.

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Re: Bullpups

#4 Post by K9s » Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:45 am

A Tavor with an aftermarket trigger pack always seemed so great, but not $2k great. I have a very light AR with a good trigger at 1/4 the price with red dot. But I still wish I had the Tavor sometimes.
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Re: Bullpups

#5 Post by JohnNewell » Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:44 pm

K9s wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 8:45 am
A Tavor with an aftermarket trigger pack always seemed so great, but not $2k great. I have a very light AR with a good trigger at 1/4 the price with red dot. But I still wish I had the Tavor sometimes.
I had a co-worker that bought a Tavor and the fascination didn't last very long. For one thing he's a left-handed shooter, and the weapon didn't convert as easily as he thought. He sold it.

The other problem with a Tavor seems to be that they are AK-47 accurate, which is to say "not very." I have seen quite a few of them for sale as used weapons.

AUG, on the other hand, appears to me to be pretty accurate. At our last range day I could pretty consistently hit a man-sized target at 200 yards. Considering that I am old, feeble, arthritic, and half-blind I'd say that wasn't too bad. :lol:

I am averaging something like 19 out of 20 doing head shots at maybe 50 yards while on the move with the AUG and while using a Vortex Sparc red dot sight.

So frankly, I am pretty happy with the AUG. It's a little heavier than an AR but it is handier, and because of the short length I can carry it in my truck a bit more discretely than my AR-10.

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Re: Bullpups

#6 Post by K9s » Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:07 pm

AK 47 not very accurate? You've been listening to yankee shooters!

The AUG seems pretty great, too. However, a folding stock AK is probably just fine for me. The bullpup obsession will pass. I hope.
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Re: Bullpups

#7 Post by Evo1 » Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:26 pm

I own a few bullpups and have shot even more. Generally I really like them a lot. In CQB they really shine. The AUG was my first (bought it when they were cheap), and I love it, but the trigger isn't great (a general issue with almost all bullpup designs). Don't know why the coworker got poor accuracy with the Tavor, which is a fantastic gun. I don't have one due to the price, but I definitely like it even better than the AUG. The ones I've shot have all been spot-on. I've also shot a few bullpup shotguns, including the new Tavor 12 gauge (TS 12). Generally they tend to have lighter recoil than other semiautomatic shotguns, and with an 18" barrel they are very compact. Both the TS 12 and the Panzer BP 12 shotguns are a blast to shoot and easy on the shoulder.

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Re: Bullpups

#8 Post by MayhemVI » Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:48 am

I'd be a helluva a lot more interested in them if any were hunting grade, wood stock bullpups instead of all this tactical, practical, para-military crap. How many different guns do we need to fight off Mooslims, aliens and zombies anyway?
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Re: Bullpups

#9 Post by K9s » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:36 pm

MayhemVI wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:48 am
I'd be a helluva a lot more interested in them if any were hunting grade, wood stock bullpups instead of all this tactical, practical, para-military crap. How many different guns do we need to fight off Mooslims, aliens and zombies anyway?
A wood stock would be cool. I have only seen those aftermarket.

For a range toy, absent a zombie apocalypse, it is expensive.
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Re: Bullpups

#10 Post by AndyH » Wed Jan 15, 2020 12:13 am

MayhemVI wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:48 am
How many different guns do we need to fight off ... zombies anyway?
All of them! :lol:

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Re: Bullpups

#11 Post by BillMcD » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:28 pm

K9s wrote:
Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:07 pm
AK 47 not very accurate? You've been listening to yankee shooters!

The AUG seems pretty great, too. However, a folding stock AK is probably just fine for me. The bullpup obsession will pass. I hope.
the Tavor works for minute of man at 300 meters (3-5 moa depending upon who you ask). It's no precision weapon but it does the job it's supposed to, assuming the job isn't hitting small animals at a distance.

Bullpup ergonomics are nice for people with short arms (like me), but the cost makes it impractical. SBRs with the tax stamp or "pistol" ARs/AKs are generally cheaper.
As for the AUG, i know some people who hate them with a passion because of the gas port placement and the plastic fire control group.
Considering though that armies don't care about SBR laws, most made even shorter barrels for the m4 and AK and called it a day when it comes to personal defense weapons.

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Re: Bullpups

#12 Post by JohnNewell » Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:06 pm

Great Britain are on their 3rd rebuild of their SA80/L85 rifles. They have had few foreign sales and have given small quantities away to the Bermudas, Gibraltar security forces, Falkland Islands, etc. Most people say they are junk and should just be phased out.

France wore out their FAMAS bullpups and are testing AR-pattern rifles to replace them. Once again, few foreign sales. Vanuatu and Cameron bought them and that should tell you something.

The FN F2000 got some pretty fair sales to special forces groups but are now no longer being listed in FN's catalog.

IWI has gotten a ton of sales for the Tavor, and not just in Israel.

The QBZ-95 has become the standard rifle of the Chinese People's Liberation Army. So clearly Norinco has massive sales with that thing.

And then there is the Steyr AUG. The Austrians use it and are still buying new copies of the original rifle. The Australians wore out their original AUGs, had another competition, and the winner was ... duh ... an improved AUG manufactured by Thales and called the Lithgow F90. And, of course, the classic AUG has been in production for 40 years and has tons of military and police sales worldwide.

So I guess the moral of the story is that not all bullpups are created equally, just like not all service rifles are created the same.

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Re: Bullpups

#13 Post by K9s » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:28 pm

I don't think the Norinco Type 97 is available in the US, so I guess we get what is allowed and if we can afford it here.
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Re: Bullpups

#14 Post by MayhemVI » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:33 pm

JohnNewell wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:06 pm

France wore out their FAMAS bullpups and are testing AR-pattern rifles to replace them. Once again, few foreign sales. Vanuatu and Cameron bought them and that should tell you something.

From what I've read, the FAMAS had to fire steel case ammo because the bullpup design was somehow shredding brass cases. That's extremely unfortunate and a deal killer for me both for civilian and military applications.

If I could go back and start over, I'd study gunbuilding and be making bolt-action, medium frame rifles taking advantage of putting longer barrels on them. Based on what I gather of the American market, I'd either also be building other guns, or I'd probably be going broke from lack of sales. ... But I'd be shooting the shit out of mine. :punk:
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Re: Bullpups

#15 Post by JohnNewell » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:54 pm

K9s wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:28 pm
I don't think the Norinco Type 97 is available in the US, so I guess we get what is allowed and if we can afford it here.
Evidently in stock at Cabela's in Canada. Which is a bit surprising to me. :shock: https://www.cabelas.ca/product/94870/no ... atic-rifle

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Re: Bullpups

#16 Post by K9s » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:15 pm

JohnNewell wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:54 pm
K9s wrote:
Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:28 pm
I don't think the Norinco Type 97 is available in the US, so I guess we get what is allowed and if we can afford it here.
Evidently in stock at Cabela's in Canada. Which is a bit surprising to me. :shock: https://www.cabelas.ca/product/94870/no ... atic-rifle
Canada gets Chinese and Russian arms (e.g. SKS) that we can't import in the USA. Of course, they are pinned to 5 rounds.

Our US import bans were thanks to the US gun industry lobbyists who, of course, only care about our 2A rights (to buy more expensive rifles if we can afford them). They lobbied Clinton and Obama to get rid of inexpensive Mosins and Norincos because... Freedom?
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